Debates between Greg Smith and Martin McCluskey during the 2024 Parliament

Cost of Heating Oil

Debate between Greg Smith and Martin McCluskey
Wednesday 15th April 2026

(3 days, 16 hours ago)

Westminster Hall
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Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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Unfortunately, the Scottish Government are not allowing the data to be shared because of the pre-election period. I would argue that that is not what the pre-election period is meant for, and I will continue to have those discussions with the Scottish Government. I know that other hon. Members in Scottish constituencies have faced a similar problem in getting any data about their constituencies from Advice Direct Scotland because of this prohibition from the Scottish Government.

I am conscious of time, so I turn to the issue of wider market reform. There is obviously evidence that the market as it exists at the moment is not working. I find it difficult to listen to the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), who was a Minister in the Department for Business and Trade under the last Government—

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith
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Was I? I was never a Minister.

Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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Well, the hon. Member was a Member of the party that was last in government, let me say that, and I find it difficult to listen to him tell us about the lessons that we should have learned. We should never have been in this position, and we should not be in a position again where we are facing higher energy prices because of an international situation, and where we are having to deal with an unregulated market in heating oil. I argue that the then Government should have looked at this in 2022 and determined what action needed to be taken.

I will explain what we have done so far. The CMA is conducting an investigation at speed. These investigations normally take around a year, but it is going to conduct this one within 12 weeks. It has already completed the evidence-gathering stage, and it is now in the process of examining that evidence. I hope that it will come forward with the report in June. The Prime Minister has been clear that we will look at what comes forward from the CMA and examine the case for regulation.

Hon. Members across the Chamber have spoken about a price cap, but I do not want to prejudge the work of the CMA. There have also been suggestions about minimum orders and price guarantees—there a number of different proposals on the table—but we have to ensure that we make the right decision, and do not end up with unintended consequences that could make the situation worse. In a market with a large number of players, many of which are quite small rural businesses, it is especially important that we do not make the situation any worse. We are looking at a range of options.

The Chancellor has written to the CMA to ask that it remains vigilant across heating oil prices and tackles any unjustified increases that it might find. The Government are also in daily contact with industry to understand the drivers of recent price movements. We have reminded heating oil distributors of their commitments under the trade association code of practice.

--- Later in debate ---
Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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As the hon. Lady knows, the Department runs a range of programmes. We took the decision to abolish ECO4 because it was not working effectively. In some cases, it was costing more to find people who needed the measures than it was to deploy the measures. The Department has been provided with an additional £1.5 billion, which took the total up to £15 billion for this financial year. That money is being deployed through the local government schemes—the warm homes social housing fund and the warm homes local grant. That is enhancing what has already been provided to low-income households through the Department.

As I say, £2.7 billion of capital is being deployed to provide low interest or no interest consumer loans. We need to accelerate that. At the moment, we are probably looking at early next year, but I would like to see that come forward so that we can use those consumer loans as a response to the current situation. We know that there is significant demand for home upgrades, including solar, battery and heat pumps, but we have to give people the support they need to take up those options.

We will speed up the delivery of the £15 billion warm homes plan—the largest home upgrade programme in British history—and we are reforming nuclear regulations following the Fingleton review so that we can fast-track new nuclear power stations.

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith
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The Minister seems to have pivoted towards electricity and away from heating oil, which this debate is about. On the wind auctions, I am not sure consumers will thank him for the price that has just been paid. However, we are talking predominantly about the many rural homes that are off the gas grid. Many are built out of stone—I declare an interest, as mine is built out of witchert, which is a form of cob—and heat pumps do not touch the sides. Will he at least acknowledge that for those rural homes, we need to look at things such as alternative fuels? Boilers can be converted to run on hydrotreated vegetable oil and, in the future, synthetic fuels. We must not just keep talking about electricity.

Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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Fifty per cent of grants provided through the boiler upgrade scheme, which is our primary vehicle for providing people with grants for heat pumps to replace—

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith
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rose—

Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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If the hon. Gentleman will let me finish the point, I was going to say that 50% of those are to rural homes. I am not trying to dismiss the fact that there are some properties where it would not be appropriate to fit a heat pump because of the fabric, although adaptations can be made. However, we are seeing from consumer behaviour that most boiler upgrade scheme grants are going to rural homes, so there is clearly demand within rural areas for heat pumps, whether the traditional air-to-air or air-to-water heat pumps or ground source heat pumps, which are increasingly popular in rural homes.

I go back to the point about learning the lessons. We are in a situation where this country is significantly exposed to fossil fuels, whether through gas or oil. The long-term solution—to remove that risk and exposure—is to move to electrification, because we would not be having this debate if homes were electrified. We need to find solutions for rural homes, and we need to move to technology that means people have more control over their energy and the system.

Behind every decision this Government take is a simple principle: whatever the challenges, we will support working people. We will always fight their corner through this crisis. That is why we are directly helping those affected by the spike in heating oil costs, cracking down on energy suppliers who are cancelling orders or jacking up prices, and working at pace to ensure the sector is properly regulated. That is why we are doing everything we can to end our reliance on unstable fossil fuel markets and take back control of our energy.

That will mean an era of economic growth, good new jobs and unprecedented investment—an era of real energy security. That is how we will ensure that ordinary working British people, including those in rural areas, never again pay the price for foreign conflicts and our overdependence on fossil fuels.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Smith and Martin McCluskey
Tuesday 24th March 2026

(3 weeks, 4 days ago)

Commons Chamber
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Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)
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I declare an interest: my home is off the gas grid and my boiler is fuelled by domestic heating oil. I have listened carefully to the Minister’s answers, and there have been significant gaps—there has been no mention of liquefied petroleum gas, for example. Although it is always right to support the most vulnerable in our society, I am not sure that he has fully understood that there are many households on modest incomes across rural communities that do not receive benefits and simply do not have £500, £600 or £700 lying around to meet a bill that they have not budgeted for.

Perhaps the Minister could answer a specific question on certainty. While the CMA investigation goes on, customers continue to place orders without knowing how much they will be charged when the oil is delivered. He could implement an interim measure before a wider set of changes to stop that practice. Will he do so?

Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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I think I need to start by correcting some of what the hon. Gentleman said. In my statement last week, I confirmed that LPG was part of the support—perhaps he did not hear that. Our priority, all the way through this crisis, has been to ensure that funding reaches people at speed. That is why we have delivered support in two weeks, not 200 days. On his point about means-testing, the funding is discretionary, so local authorities can decide how to provide it to people. I think he also called for a CMA investigation. We will look and study the results of the investigation to see what needs to happen to regulate the industry, but, as I said from the Dispatch Box a number of times last week, it is clear that the market is not functioning properly.

Draft Motor Fuel Price (Open Data) Regulations 2025

Debate between Greg Smith and Martin McCluskey
Tuesday 4th November 2025

(5 months, 2 weeks ago)

General Committees
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Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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That was detailed, if nothing else. It is refreshing to hear those on the Conservative Benches back their own policies in opposition. At the moment in my brief, I am more used to hearing Conservative Front Benchers disavow the policies of the previous Government in my Department. The shadow Energy Secretary could learn from this breakout of consensus.

I will begin by responding to the points of the spokesperson for the official Opposition, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire. If I neglect to answer any of those points, he should please intervene to remind me of anything I did not scribble down quickly enough.

The CMA annual report will address margin transparency and the other issues that he laid out. It would likely be quite difficult to put margin transparency in place in the current scheme until we have Fuel Finder operational, but it will be included in the CMA’s annual report. On the legal requirement around whether or not fuel is available at a particular filling station, that point was raised during the consultation and examined by officials. A thorough analysis was done of how easy, or not, it would be to collect that information. The determination was made that, although the request for inclusion is well intentioned—and I can understand it; it would be useful information—it would be very technically difficult to include it on a real-time basis in the scheme, which could potentially undermine a lot of the other measures that we are trying to ensure as part of the scheme. On enforcement, I would point the hon. Member towards part 6 of the instrument, which gives details on enforcement. I do not share the hon. Member’s concerns.

Concerns were raised about amenities. It is clear, both from what the CMA has already published and from the impact assessment and explanatory memorandum, that a proportionate approach will be taken to any enforcement, on a case-by-case basis. The published guidance has been clear about that, which hopefully reassures those who have raised concerns about the amenities being included. We are, and have been, actively engaging on amenities, but it is also important to note that amenities were consulted on as part of the consultation exercise that was undertaken, so it is not quite right to say that there has been no consultation with industry on this point.

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith
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The Minister has said that there needs to be proportionality, but he supports some of the other amenities being reported on. If it is possible for any fuel retailer to say whether they have a current working coffee machine or microwave, how is it not possible to report on whether they have any petrol or diesel in the tanks?

Martin McCluskey Portrait Martin McCluskey
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That is why we are, and will continue to be, in constant engagement with industry on amenities.

Let me address the points made by the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston. The rationale for worldwide turnover is commonly understood, and already used within the industry. That is why that measure was selected. On the concerns around rurality, there will be other mechanisms for people to feed in that do not rely on, for example, an internet connection. People will be able to text the price in real time, and able to use a telephone service—though we do not actually think that there will be an issue with wi-fi, because lots of rural fuel stations will use wi-fi for their payment systems.

VE3 Global was appointed as the successful supplier to become the aggregator of Fuel Finder. VE3 Global specialises in digital transformation, data aggregation and cloud-based solutions, so it has lots of experience in this area. The right hon. Member also asked a final question on guidance. We will publish the guidance and training before the whole programme is rolled out, so that people can have some certainty and assistance. As I said, we understand that this is a change for businesses, and certainly represents a change to business as usual, so we want to make sure that people are properly guided and trained.

I thank hon. Members for their valuable contributions to the debate and the questions they raised. I also thank the Lib Dem spokesperson for her support of the statutory instrument. I conclude by reaffirming our commitment to creating a firm and transparent UK road fuel market. Now more than ever we need to protect households and businesses from pricing practices and deliver change to reverse the sharp spikes in road fuel prices in recent years. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.