Oral Answers to Questions

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

1. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of aid provided to the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[The Secretary of State for International Development (Mr Andrew Mitchell)]

Both the Minister of State, who is today attending the Friends of Yemen meeting in Riyadh, and I keep a close eye on the effectiveness of our programme in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[Guto Bebb]

I thank the Minister for his response. On a trip to Israel and the west bank earlier this year, I saw education materials that incited violence and the use of Palestinian Authority broadcast media to glorify conflict, not least relating to a group of children singing about the aim to saturate their land with blood. Will the Secretary of State provide assurances that our aid donations do not contribute towards such incitement? Will he highlight what steps the Government are taking to deter the Palestinian Authority from supporting such publications and broadcasts?

[Mr Mitchell]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. I would be very interested to see the material he describes. I can tell him that numerous credible studies show no evidence of incitement or anti-Semitism in Palestinian Authority textbooks, so if he ensures that we get a copy of what he has seen, we will take the appropriate action.

Gaza (Aid)

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Westminster Hall

[Michael Connarty]

Mr Dobbin, it is my intention to give the Minister adequate time to speak.

Having been to Gaza on five occasions, I feel that I should say a word about the people there. I was lucky enough to be a monitor at the first democratic elections in Gaza city. At all times, the people were unbelievably welcoming, friendly and tremendously supportive and I was much buoyed up by my meetings with them. On my last visit, we went to Beach camp. I was very ill—an allergy that I suffer from kicked in while I was there—and I found the people to be unbelievably hospitable and caring. They looked after me very well. I have nothing but the highest regard for them; they were kindness incarnate. It is those people whom I want to talk about in this debate.

First, though, I must talk about the context in which such recent visits have taken place. Deep concerns have been expressed, and continue to be expressed, about the impositions placed on the people of Gaza and the humanitarian effects of them. In the second democratic election, the people of Gaza chose to elect a Hamas majority Government. Since then, there have been tremendous controversies. I join others in condemning not only the inability of that Government to stop the firing of rockets into the Israeli territories and households, but the unbelievable excessive force used in retaliation by the Israeli Government, which has killed more than 1,000 people and destroyed many of the basic facilities required for humanitarian reasons.

There has been strong condemnation from the Turkish Government over the killing of nine Turkish citizens on the aid flotillas. They have now said that they will defend the flotillas taking humanitarian aid to Gaza if they are carrying Turkish citizens. The problem has been caused by Israel’s appalling blockade of Gaza. Access to the Gaza strip remains severely restricted. Only the Kerem Shalom crossing is functioning, although it has recently been subject to Palestinian industrial action, which is in protest at the recent closure of the Kami crossing. The Gisha Legal Centre for the Freedom of Movement notes that Kerem Shalom can accommodate 250 trucks per day in both directions, compared with 1,000 trucks in both directions at Kami, so that is clearly severely restricting the amount of aid going into Gaza.

In September 2009, the IMF directly attributed the continuing restrictions on access to Gaza as a prime reason for the continued high unemployment rate, low growth and high inflation. Gaza could reach growth rates of 7 to 8% if the economic blockade were lifted. As for the children of Gaza, one in three is anaemic and one in 10 is malnourished. The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the UN classes 61% of Gazans as “food insecure” and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency reports that 80% of Gazans rely on some form of aid.

A report published in January 2011 on the website of the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, which has access to documents obtained by Wikileaks, makes it quite clear that the Israeli Government are determined to starve the economy of Gaza to bring it to the point of collapse. If people cannot sustain their own economy, the need for aid grows and grows, and that is a strategy that the Israeli Government are clearly using. That is wholly unacceptable.

The report said that a shortage of Israeli shekels in Gaza has continued to be an issue. Last July, Tony Blair, speaking in his role as representative in the middle east, said that he welcomed

“Israel’s decision to allow the entry of 50 million shekels into Gaza as well as the exchange of 31.5 million shekels of spoiled banknotes”.

The pressure is on Israel. This is about not just starving people of basic materials that the international community would give them or that people would be able to trade, but trying to break the economy in retaliation for people exercising their democratic right, which we are always espousing, to choose a different Government.

Let me put on the record the names of all those Members who went on the visit in July 2011. They are my hon. Friends the Members for Manchester Central (Tony Lloyd), for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne), for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), and for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), and Lord Warner. Before I quote from their reports, I also want to put it on the record that the right hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr Duncan) was the first Minister to visit Gaza in the last decade. I hope that the Under-Secretary of State will follow that example and go to Gaza to meet the people.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

The difference between Israel’s attitudes to the Gaza strip and the west bank might be because it faces more of a threat from the Gaza strip. As for the recent visit to the west bank, my understanding is that the economic growth in that part of the Palestinian authority is about 12% per annum. Clearly, the message is that if the Palestinians can restrain the violence being shown by Hamas in Gaza, economic growth in Gaza might be much greater.

[Michael Connarty]

Even when I have visited some of the worst regimes, I have always been impressed by the tremendous entrepreneurial ability of the people of the Palestinian nation and their tremendous thirst for knowledge and high skills. We see them all around the world. We have quite a number in Scotland who contribute to our economy.

If we look at what has happened on the west bank, and such things have been well recorded, we see that the people have to manage in very straitened circumstances, especially given the Israeli Government’s attitude to land, roads and water. Even in the west bank, the people live under a penal regime. In Gaza, there is an attempt to starve out and harm the ordinary people in retaliation for what is the unacceptable use of rockets.

Everyone recognises that Israel has used disproportionate force. We cannot just blame Hamas. The circumstances are set by the occupying nation, which is Israel. That may change shortly, because there will be an attempt in the UN to recognise the nation of Palestine as a state. Hopefully, that will change the attitude of the people in the UN—perhaps not in the Security Council. It will help Hamas and Fatah to try to create one non-violent approach to unity and to statehood.

Let me turn now to the situation that our colleagues found when they visited Gaza in July. The blockade clearly aims to cause great harm to the people’s ability to generate income and run their own economy. The effects of denying them the supplies that they require to function were quite stark. My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun said that it took them three hours to get into the occupied territories. Some of the Palestinians who were waiting at the crossing to get through had been waiting for days.

The imposition was deliberately put in by the Government. On a positive note, my hon. Friend said that when she spoke to women’s groups, voluntary organisations, small businesses and trade unions, she found a tremendous sense of activity within the community to overcome the burden placed on them. The people are not lying down with their hand out waiting for someone to come to their aid; they are a very determined people who are attempting to live under these terrible conditions and to do their best.

None the less, the reality is that the people cannot generate much of their own wealth—50% of factories were destroyed in the Israeli war in 2008-09. The numbers of employed fell from 135,000 to 15,000; that is a massive drop that impacts on their ability to generate income. As a result, inferior, illegally imported goods are coming through, which create safety problems. They are not of the right quality. Raw materials for manufacturing are difficult to source, so the Palestinian people’s ability to save their own economic life is minimal.

Another problem that has always existed in Palestinian communities is the difficulty of sourcing adequate water. The hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) compared Gaza with the west bank. There is a water problem in the west bank, but the water problem in Gaza is probably more extreme. Even when I was last in Gaza, before the latest problem caused by the reaction to the election of Hamas, most of the main water sources had been diverted to Israeli settlements outside Gaza.

That has always been a problem, because the Israeli wells are sunk much deeper than the Israelis allow the Palestinians to sink their wells, so the Israeli wells soak up water from the aquifers. The Coastal Municipalities Water Utility organisation in Gaza has said that, because of the reduction in the flow of the water, the amount of nitrates and the level of chlorine contamination are now rising very fast in the water sources that the Palestinian people have to use. Even when I was last in Gaza, which is some time ago now, doctors told me that children were beginning to show signs of diseases that had not been prevalent among the Palestinian people for quite some time, and children are the ones who are harmed by using contaminated water.

Another thing that caused me great distress when I was last in Gaza was the fact that people were not being allowed to dump their rubbish by taking it away to somewhere safe; often they had to dump it within the limits of their cities and communities. That meant that, when it rained, material from the rubbish leached down into the aquifers and was then absorbed back into the bodies of the people using water from the aquifers.

Because of the inability to generate enough electricity, the people in Gaza now have problems keeping even the basic facilities running in their hospitals. One of the hospitals in Gaza city is mostly comprised of wards that were built with donations from the families of returning or deceased soldiers from the first world war. Many soldiers recuperated in Gaza city after the terrible Gallipoli campaign and many of the wards in that hospital have plaques on the walls to show that they were built by the British.

To keep those wards running is very important. However, the recent British delegation visited Al Shifa hospital in Gaza city and the members of the delegation were told that kidney dialysis machines have to be disconnected from patients every time the power goes out, meaning that the blood has to be cleaned and the dialysis process has to be restarted every time the power goes out. Dialysis has to be done twice, which is a great imposition on kidney patients.

There is also a major problem in trying to source legitimate building materials, because of the argument put forward by the Israeli Government that certain things, including basic building materials, have dual use and therefore should be denied to the people of Palestine. That argument does not make any sense. For example, radiotherapy drugs for cancer patients are banned, because Israel says—for some reason—that they are a dual use product. I am not quite sure how to extract the small amount of radioactivity from radiotherapy drugs and how it could be used for anything other than medical purposes.

I know, Mr Dobbin, that you come from a medical research background and so you will know that a small amount of radioactive material, with a very low level of radioactivity, is generated by every hospital in the country. I do not see anyone saying that we need to rush around and put that material in a high security facility, so the Israeli attitude is nonsense and an imposition on patients.

Doctors who spoke to the British delegation that visited Gaza recently estimated that in the past year 500 Palestinians have died simply because of a lack of medication; Gazans are simply not being allowed to import medication in adequate quantities. Children and cancer patients are most at risk, as they are denied the treatment they need. For example, we met a young boy with a sickle cell anaemia problem. In this country, we would regard any child who had that problem as being a priority, but that child in Gaza was denied drugs to deal with that terrible disease. Providing those drugs is what humanitarian aid is about.

We must ask the Minister, “When will the warm words and the talking stop? When is all this nonsense about it being all right when we have a negotiated settlement going to stop?” There is a widespread feeling that the Israeli Government do not want to have a negotiated settlement that would give the Palestinians an equal and adequate life, and it is quite clear that we are condoning and colluding in the situation in Gaza. We did not like the result of a democratic election and we have not done enough to try to move from that viewpoint, to a situation where that election result is not seen as a threat but as something that should be absorbed into the discussions about what happens in Palestine.

In all the years since I last visited Gaza, and in the time since the British delegation visited Gaza recently, there seems to have been very little movement, except perhaps for a backward movement in the conditions of the people there. That is a great tragedy and, to be quite frank, in the past it has been a cause of great shame for my party when we were in government; we should have dealt with that situation if we were in any way humanitarian and democratic socialists.

Now the challenge lies with this Government, without regard to party. I hope that they make the choice to change their position so that they support UN recognition of the state of Palestine. But if they cannot do that, I hope that they will do something to argue very strongly for, and win through the UN, a situation whereby it is accepted that it is wrong for Israel to do what it is doing in preventing humanitarian aid and other basic aid from being taken to the people of Gaza by whichever route people choose to take it.

Lesotho

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Bone. It is a real privilege to appear before you in your elevated status; I think that this is my first time. I also thank you very much indeed for giving me that extra two minutes. I am sure that the extra time will serve me, the Minister and indeed the people of Lesotho very well.

Lesotho is an extraordinary African country. It is surrounded by South Africa, whose influence there is substantial, indeed crucial. Along with the UK alone, Lesotho has the dubious honour of having hereditary peers in its legislature. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I gather that that “Hear, hear” is support for the maintenance of hereditary peers by the Tory-Lib Dem alliance that is currently running the country, and I will note that accordingly.

Lesotho has a population of about 1.8 million people and its terrain is mountainous, with less than 10% of its land being suitable for cultivation. Unlike many African countries, it is very green and I think that its biggest export is water. If that sounds vaguely familiar, it may be that some friends of Lesotho see those characteristics of the country as being similar to those of Wales, for which I am proud to be one of the Members of Parliament.

In the 1980s, those common characteristics led Wales to be twinned with Lesotho. The relationship has grown since then, and a strong bond has developed between the two countries. An organisation called Dolen Cymru, the Wales Lesotho Link, has worked hard over many years to develop that bond, and initiatives across Wales, funded by the Department for International Development and the Welsh Assembly Government, have created joint working to confront the issues of our time: primary education, health—especially AIDS—and sustainable economic development.

Lesotho’s schools are a credit to the country. If anyone here has the chance to visit Lesotho, as I had the privilege of doing in 2006, they will see schools packed full of individuals who want to learn and get on. Free primary education is a recent innovation, so Lesotho has some of the oldest primary school children one is likely to meet. Secondary education is keenly sought after, although unfortunately many of those who seek it do not have the means to advance themselves by that route.

Lesotho also faces many health challenges. It has the planet’s third highest rate of HIV infection. Some 23.2% of the population between 15 and 49 are infected: 26% of women and 19% of men. Due to economic pressures, those infected are often unable to travel to seek the health and medical care that they need, even when that care is available.

Lesotho’s economy is another challenge. The country is striving to move away from being a subsistence economy to being a modern diverse economy, but it is a struggle. The world recession has had a major economic impact on developed nations, but nations seeking to develop have been hit even harder. Textile subsidies that helped Lesotho export, particularly to the United States, have ended, which has had a major impact on the country, which makes wonderful wool products and marvellous tapestries, if anyone would like to adorn their walls with something beautiful. The products are made in Lesotho, but the country’s ability to export those products to the rest of the world is limited.

There are pressures. Unemployment is high—rates of more than 40% are not unusual—and at present the country does not have the capacity to support a vibrant private sector. Little professional support exists for business. In advance of this debate, I received an interesting report from the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy about work that it is doing to develop expertise and support for business in Lesotho. I commend that work. I think that the report is in draft, but it will be available shortly. Such support for business, and the development of a private sector that provides work and the ability to export, is important for the future of Lesotho.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on the links between Wales and Lesotho. It is important to make the point that the Welsh contribution has been significant. On economic development, does he agree that the priority given by Dolen Cymru to educational links is a long-term strategy for securing economic growth?

Yes, there are short-term things that should be done, but in terms of educating a work force who can compete internationally, forming links between 130 schools in Wales and Lesotho is a step in the right direction. It is a good example of long-term planning in aid projects between this country and Lesotho.

[Ian Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The introduction of free primary education in Lesotho is having a massive positive impact. I will say a few words about the thirst of people in Lesotho for education. They see it as a way to progress within their lives, become teachers or entrepreneurs and develop the skills that they need to take their country forward. It is such a recent innovation—it has only happened within the past decade—that many lives previously did not reach their full potential.

People in Lesotho understand the importance of education, and it is valued in their schools. Both teachers and pupils are enthusiastic about education and its transformative power. I wish we saw that more often in some UK classrooms; I never heard a pupil in Lesotho say to me, “I’m bored.” I would love never to hear such a comment in the United Kingdom.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the links between schools in Wales and in Lesotho. I commend the Department for International Development for focusing over many years on global schools partnerships, which have been positive as far as Wales is concerned. I particularly commend the fact that the partnerships require commitment from UK schools to work with schools in developing countries, so that they can learn from each other. What I have seen in the Wrexham schools involved in the project is a strong sense that not only is Lesotho learning from us, but we are learning from Lesotho.

That is an important part of the process of developing the global schools partnerships; the schools are working together. Countries at completely different stages of development are engaging and working together to confront the problems of developing countries and the developed world, and that engagement creates a much stronger understanding of what developing countries’ problems are.

That understanding is transmitted not just between staff but between the pupils who are fortunate enough to visit the others’ country. Perhaps I should declare a sort of interest: my wife is a schoolteacher just outside my constituency, in Clwyd South, which recently had a visit from some schools in Lesotho. That link has developed over three years. It has added hugely to the understanding of those in the senior school, as well as those in the two Wrexham primary schools involved, and it has massively benefited our experience and knowledge of international development.

DFID has played a major role in that. I know that securing finance for the global schools partnership is demanding and requires a lot of commitment. There is an element of form-filling that is not popular with the applicants, but it is positive in that it requires those applying to think constructively about how they approach the global schools partnership and how they can engage, for benefit in two directions, in the work being done.

The link between Lesotho and Wales is massively important, and it is keenly felt in Wales. Established some years ago, it has developed hugely and is important in both countries. Lesotho is somewhat similar to Wales in that it is dominated by a slightly larger neighbour. Lesotho has South Africa; Wales, of course, has England. I think that Lesotho sometimes feels a little undervalued by the UK Government—for example, when its high commission closed. It supported the movement against the South African apartheid regime, but was not valued as much as it should have been.

The DFID office in Maseru is the only UK Government presence in Lesotho and it is greatly valued. It would be a major step backwards if there were any thought of closing that office because it is the only representation that we have in the country. For many years, Lesotho was our window into southern Africa. It was a place where people sought refuge from the apartheid regime and that offered assistance to people from outside who were threatened by the appalling policies of South Africa at that time.

[Ian Lucas]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I know that both Germany and Ireland contribute to development in Lesotho and have been very active in the country—along with China, which is also becoming an increasing presence in Lesotho. The link with Wales is really valued within Lesotho. In celebration of the links between the two countries, the Queen of Lesotho recently visited Wales and went to a school in Penley to see the development of the global schools initiative. She saw how well that project is progressing and how much benefit both countries are securing from it.

If we are to have a partnership, it is crucial that the Government do not withdraw from activity in Lesotho and that they retain their presence there. We need to have a presence to facilitate the involvement of more private sector and non-governmental organisations, because the need in Lesotho is massive. I have already referred to the rate of AIDS infection within the country. That is a major problem with which Lesotho has to cope in a way that few other countries do. That issue requires our immediate attention. We all understand that there are tough times at home, but the people of Lesotho are having a tougher time. They have a massive rate of HIV infection in their country, and it is draining away enthusiastic young people who are keen to get on.

[Guto Bebb]

That is an important point. I support the hon. Gentleman’s call for the UK representation in Lesotho to continue. We talk about the big society and, in a Welsh context, this is very much a big society project. Community groups have come together—Merched y Wawr, the Women’s Institute and so on—to raise money, and the Welsh Assembly has embarked on support funding for the project. However, none of that would have been possible without the facilitation of UK Departments. A successful partnership approach has created an enthusiasm for a country that, previously, few people knew much about in a Welsh context.

[Ian Lucas]

That is absolutely right. It is impressive that public, private and charitable sector organisations have come together to show their commitment to developing links between Wales and Lesotho. I commend the Tory-Lib Dem Government for maintaining DFID’s budget, because I know that there are pressures from sources within both parties to end such protection.

Within that context, we must prioritise the investment that is made and recognise that voluntary links between Wales and Lesotho have been established over many years. The Government have supported those links, which need to be fostered, encouraged and developed. Through education, to which we have already referred, capacity is starting to be developed within Lesotho. Governance also needs to be improved—a common theme across many developing countries—but progress is being made.

The past two to three years have been a very difficult period across the world, but that is particularly the case for developing countries. Now is not the time to step back from supporting a country such as Lesotho. We should build on the strong links that already exist between Wales and Lesotho and encourage more contact. We should certainly not withdraw the UK Government presence in the country.