Draft European Union (Definition Of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Central America) Order 2018 Draft European Union (Definition Of Treaties) (Political Dialogue And Cooperation Agreement) (Cuba) Order 2018

Helen Goodman Excerpts

Wednesday 11th July 2018 General Committees

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

It is very nice to see you in the chair, Sir Henry, on this warm, sunny, summer afternoon. I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. I have a number of questions for him about both the substance and the process.

In general, Her Majesty’s Opposition welcome any arrangements that allow for the further integration of Latin American countries into the global economy. Arrangements to co-operate with them to encourage improvements in human rights, democracy, good governance and regional political relations, and to strengthen regional integration are all welcome. However, the Minister told us that the trade benefits to the United Kingdom from the draft central America order will amount to £700 million, but it was not clear over what period we would get that benefit.

According to one civil society group, ACT Alliance EU, and the Copenhagen Initiative for Central America, some civil society organisations in central America are opposed to ratification of the association agreement. As the Minister said, it was first signed in 2012, and since then events in those countries have moved on, not all in a positive direction. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter said, Nicaragua has particular problems, and recent national unrest has so far led to the deaths of 300 people. The risk is obvious.

[Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)]

This would be a good opportunity for the hon. Lady, who is speaking on behalf of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition, to condemn, on behalf of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition, what is going on in Nicaragua at the moment and in Venezuela, which poisons the region.

[Helen Goodman]

Of course. Her Majesty’s Opposition condemn all human rights abuses. I shall confine my remarks to Nicaragua, because that is what the draft order is about, but if the right hon. Gentleman is interested in my views on Venezuela, they were set out very fully in a Westminster Hall debate last September.

With Nicaragua, it is essential that the international mediation that has begun is followed through. We are extremely pleased that the United Nations is now on the ground and able to make a proper and full assessment of the problems and every single episode of violence that has taken place in the past three months. We do not, however, support calls from some parts of the American Administration to see a non-democratic change of Government. I would be interested to hear from the Minister whether he supports such calls from those parts of the American Administration.

The situation in Nicaragua is worse than it was when the documents we are considering were drafted. The situation is also extremely bad in El Salvador, where there is a lot of gender-based violence, which we are very concerned about. Hon. Members are probably aware of what Pope Francis said about what is happening in El Salvador, where, at the moment, women who have had abortions, even if as a result of being raped, are tried for murder. Some of them have consequently faced the death penalty. I am most concerned for the Minister to take seriously the human rights elements of the association agreements. No monitoring mechanisms seem to be set out to deal with violations. Will the Minister explain how violations will be monitored?

The explanatory memorandum highlights the importance of working with those countries on counter-narcotics. I remind the Minister that the value of illegal drugs smuggled into the United Kingdom peaked at £3.2 billion in 2016—more than double the imports of the previous year. Co-operation is covered in the association agreements, but what co-operation is being undertaken to address the international drugs trade, which is as much a problem for us as it is for the central American countries, with which we obviously have a shared interest?

[Sir Hugo Swire]

The hon. Lady makes an extraordinarily important point about the fact that the UK is the recipient of many of the drugs that are smuggled through the region. Will she take it from me, as a former Minister for the region, that the UK is involved disproportionately in trying to assist those countries, but that my right hon. Friend the Minister will be unable to go into much detail about the nature of that assistance?

[Helen Goodman]

The right hon. Gentleman is demonstrating what an excellent Foreign Office Minister he was, but I am directing my questions to the current Minister to see who is in charge of steering this through.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Equally good, I would like to think.

[Helen Goodman]

We will find out whether the Minister is equally good at answering these questions, rather than seeing them deflected via Devon.

A related concern is the human rights of migrants from central America. This agreement contains a commitment to ensure the effective employment, protection and promotion of human rights for all migrants. I am interested to know from the Minister what representations have been made to the American Government with respect to the human rights of migrants from central America.

On the process, the Minister explained that if the association agreements are in force after our departure from the European Union, the United Kingdom will be bound by them during the implementation period. I want to ask him three questions about what happens once the implementation period comes to an end in December 2020, which is quite soon. These documents were drafted six years ago, and that date is only two years ahead of us. After the implementation period, if the association agreements are in place, is it the Minister’s intention to roll them over for what we might call the proper post-Brexit period? If it is not his intention simply to roll them over, what is his plan? What is his plan if they have not been implemented by December 2020?

The impact assessment provided to the Committee for this afternoon is outdated, as it was prepared in 2015. Is the Minister confident that there have been no significant changes in the intervening three years that might affect the assessment of the impact on British businesses? The explanatory memorandum says that the Government have committed to agreeing a transitional arrangement to ensure continuity in trade. Will he produce a new explanatory memorandum with a new impact assessment in 2019, once we have left the EU?

We are extremely pleased that Cuba is making progress in being integrated into the global economy. Again, the Cuba document was drafted and written some time ago. It would be helpful to know from the Minister how the outlook for trade with Cuba and the operation of this agreement are impacted by President Trump’s decision to reinstate restrictions on Americans travelling to Cuba and United States business dealings with Cuba. At the moment we have yet another rift between the policy approach of the European Union and that of the United States. What are the Ministers intentions with respect to continuing dialogue with Cuba alongside our European partners as we move forward?

This is a tricky issue. We have still not heard how the Government intend to co-ordinate common, foreign and security policy with the European Union post Brexit, which is highly relevant to what the rollover arrangements will be for both statutory instruments. It would be extremely welcome if the Minister updated us and gave some insight into that issue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I am grateful to the right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed this afternoon. As I outlined in my opening speech, these agreements will support our values and objectives long after we have left the European Union. By ratifying them, we are demonstrating our good will as a loyal and supportive partner of the European Union and to each of these countries seeking to expand their relations with the EU. These agreements do not detract in any way from our own prospects outside the EU. We are enhancing our co-operation with partners across Latin America as we leave the EU, in line with our ambitious vision to have a global Britain.

In response to the question from the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland about the financial benefits that we hope will ensue from these agreements, a figure of between £700 million and £1.1 billion was quoted. In answer to her question over what period, the trade benefits of the EU-central America association agreement are expected to be realised over a 10-year period. That is the calculation that has been applied, but that means by 2023, following the start of the provisional application of all this in 2013. That is set out in the impact assessment attached to the order. We are working to transfer the agreement to a UK-central America association agreement, which will result in our gaining equivalent benefits once we have left the EU.

I say to my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon, a former Minister, that Cuba is very important. It is going through a significant transition and is a country with which we wish to develop a close association, to help it to transfer from being the preserve of the Castros into a country that looks more widely across the world and therefore serves the economic interests of its citizens. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that one of the major obstacles to that is the constraint on dollar transactions that is applied to any kind of business in or around the country. That is a problem that we would like to see overcome, because a prosperous Cuba is more likely to be a free and co-operative Cuba. We hope that we can, in a benign way, without being over-didactic or instructive, help Cuba to move from the past into the future in a way that is of benefit to everybody.

As for what we have heard otherwise today, I hope, Sir Henry, that it is not inappropriate for me to point out that we are discussing a pair of very specific orders, rather than having a debate on the current affairs of the region, notwithstanding important issues in Guatemala, Nicaragua and, perhaps more than anywhere else, Venezuela, where many people are fleeing the country, because the President has basically destroyed its economy and people are being forced away for fear of being unable to buy the most basic goods, in a climate of hyper-inflation. This is not a debate about current events; it is a debate about these two orders. The agreements will do things such as enhance political dialogue and further co-operation in areas such as climate change, the environment, counter-narcotics, counter-terrorism, human rights and migration.

In the context of Cuba, which has been raised specifically, five annual dialogues are being established, on human rights, sustainable development, non-proliferation, the illicit trade in arms and unilateral coercive measures. The agreements are a framework within which good can be achieved, rather than a day-to-day narrative, which is more the preserve of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and our diplomacy.

To conclude, I note that the hon. Member for North East Fife, the Scottish National party spokesperson, is absent. In a parallel Delegated Legislation Committee this morning, in which we considered three similar orders on EU-third country agreements, the SNP Member tried to vote no. When I inquired why, they said that they did so on the grounds that the devolved Administrations had not been consulted. I would like to put it on record that although the UK’s foreign affairs policy is totally a reserved matter, the devolved Administrations were consulted during the preliminary stages of consultation on each of these agreements. All the devolved Administrations confirmed that they did not anticipate any legislative changes as a result of the agreements, and no specific concerns were expressed, so the argument put by the SNP in relation to this morning’s Committee was utterly erroneous, specious and unmerited.

[Helen Goodman]

On the issue of Scotland, I notice that the trade section of the impact assessment for the order relating to central America shows that one of the benefits that will flow to us is that our geographical indications on Scotch whisky will be protected in central American markets. In return, there will be a reduction in the tariffs that they impose on Scotch whisky. I have already asked the Minister how the rollovers will operate, but it is not clear how geographical indications on food and drink will be preserved post Brexit. Will that not be an issue in this context, as well as more widely?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

May I apologise to the hon. Lady? I did not properly answer her point about process, although I meant to. We are content that the orders will come into force within the implementation period, so her concerns will not apply.

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for pointing out the strength of the logic that I have put to the Committee, because what we are proposing will benefit Scotland. It is ironic, not to say illogical and absurd, that the Scottish National party should consider voting against something such as this, when its primary industry of Scotch whisky is likely to benefit. We find that the SNP is anti-Scotch whisky exports and that, had it been here, it would have perhaps voted against these orders, as it tried to this morning, on the grounds that it was not consulted, when it has been. The irony of the SNP position, added to its absence today, will not be lost on either side of the Committee. I thank you again, Sir Henry, for presiding over our proceedings, and I commend the orders to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Central America) Order 2018.

draft European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Political Dialogue and Cooperation Agreement) (Cuba) Order 2018

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Political Dialogue and Cooperation Agreement) (Cuba) Order 2018.—(Sir Alan Duncan.)