Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman
Mr Hayes
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and let me repeat that he was highly thought of in the industry, not least due to his commitment to the visits he made and to his work. It is key to recognise that many small and medium-sized companies are a part of this exciting opportunity. Often we see this issue in terms of very large oil companies, but it is the SMEs that require the extra investment I described in answer to the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg).
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
16. What steps he is taking to increase the confidence of the energy sector to invest in new generating capacity.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Mr John Hayes)
The UK is one of the most attractive places in the world to invest in energy infrastructure, and still more so since we published the Energy Bill. The certainty this provides is backed by complete cross-Government support unmatched by any other country in Europe.
Mr Sheerman
The Minister seems to be living in a parallel universe. I have a declared interest: I am on the environmental scrutiny board of Veolia, the environmental company. When I meet people who are being asked to make a long-term investment in the production of energy, they are very cautious of making any commitment at this time. What will he do about that? An energy gap, which is totally frightening for the people of this country, is emerging.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman(12 years, 4 months ago)
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Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
14. What steps he is taking to ensure that the forthcoming capacity mechanism is not unduly biased towards large, centralised, fossil fuel generation.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Mr John Hayes)
The capacity market is intended to ensure that we have adequate reliable capacity on the electricity system. It will be open to all reliable providers of capacity, including large centralised generation and other forms such as demand-side response, storage, and combined heat and power. We are putting in place tailored arrangements accordingly.
Mr Sheerman
Does the Minister not share my worry and concern that, in the context of the Energy Bill and every other measure, it does not matter that we have been told this morning that we have unanimity across the two Government parties, because there is no unanimity with the Chancellor? What he said in his autumn statement and what he said this week means that it is all about gas, gas, gas. I am in favour of shale; indeed, today’s Question Time has been destroyed by not having a proper announcement on and scrutiny of shale. The fact is that we now have a Government determined to go for gas with no balance in the energy economy at all.
Mr Hayes
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the intermittence of renewables and the relative inflexibility of other forms of generation mean that gas is necessary to provide flexibility. However, he is absolutely right that if we are going to make an argument for a mixed economy, because that provides the best chance of sustainability, we cannot put all our eggs in one basket. The Energy Bill, together with the levy control framework —which, as he also knows, provides £7.6 billion for renewables, carbon capture and storage, and nuclear—enables us to achieve just that mix.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
May I remind the Minister that there is nothing amusing about the 1 million young people who are unemployed? Is it not a fact that the lack of leadership and imagination in our schools and in the leadership of this country means that those people are languishing with little hope? Can we not use unemployed graduates, working with NEETs, to make something happen and make it happen soon?
Mr Hayes
The hon. Gentleman is right that this is not a matter for levity, but he is also wise enough to acknowledge, I hope, that it is a structural problem. The number of young people not in education, employment or training began to rise, as he knows, long before the current economic challenges. It requires a structural solution and at the heart of that is building the skills people need to get and to keep jobs, which is precisely what this Government are doing.
The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)
My hon. Friend will know that this Government take careers advice very seriously, which is why we established the National Careers Service. He will also know that we have not only changed the law, ensuring that schools secure independent advice and guidance, but introduced statutory guidance for schools and, furthermore, a practical guide to how they should go about it. This is a record that we can be proud of and that the whole House should enjoy.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
T3. Where was the Secretary of State when so many parents and young people were traumatised by what was happening with GCSEs? Why did he not go on radio and television to explain his position? None of us wants him to interfere with Ofqual, but over the past two years he has been responsible for producing a climate of fear in which Ofqual and the examination boards operate.
Apprenticeships
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman(13 years, 4 months ago)
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The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of apprenticeships.
Mr Speaker, the other element is skills—but my skills could never be as great as your own, I hasten to add.
The guitarist Chet Atkins once said:
“A long apprenticeship is the most logical way to success. The only alternative is overnight stardom, but I can’t give you a formula for that.”
Mr Speaker, you and I know, along with others, that long apprenticeships in public service can bear out the first part of that sentiment. On overnight stardom, I say only that the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), the new shadow Business Secretary, will no doubt enlighten us on some future occasion.
Mr Speaker, you and I have no wish for this debate to become an exercise in party political tergiversation alone. There is no need for unnecessary contumely, and no need for more criticism of Opposition Members than that which is necessary to, by contrast, highlight the extent of our achievements.
There are many on the Opposition Benchers whose commitment to apprenticeship training is deep and sincere, and I recognise that the previous Government did indeed invest in apprenticeships—certainly towards the end. It is also fair to point out that there was a rise of almost 50,000 in the number of apprentices aged over 25, so, despite some things that we have read recently, the growth in older apprentices is a trend change that has been taking place over a number of years.
Indeed, the previous Government recognised, as you will know Madam Deputy Speaker, in the Leitch report on skills, which they commissioned, that such growth in the skilling of older workers was essential to keep pace with our competitors by upskilling and reskilling the existing work force.
Above all, I know that Members on both sides of the House recognise that apprenticeship training is a sure way to success. The all-party group on further education, skills and lifelong learning recently called for the creation of a “Royal Society of Apprentices” as a means of raising the profile of what many of us believe is our most effective form of vocational training, and I will, I am pleased to tell the House today, take that proposal forward.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister knows and is quite right that all Members are in favour of apprenticeships, but we are in favour of quality apprenticeships. When I was Chair of the Education and Skills Committee, I discovered that too many apprenticeships lasted only one year and very many did not lead to a secure job. There are now 1 million unemployed young people, and some of us believe that 6% of young people going into apprenticeships is not enough. We need new efforts to get more people apprenticeships now.
Mr Hayes
The hon. Gentleman has been a long-standing advocate of apprenticeships, and he rightly draws attention to previous Select Committee reports on the subject. He highlighted those reports in the Chamber on more than one occasion when I was present, and he is right in two particular respects: first, it is important that we focus apprenticeships on where they are of most value, and there is more evidence to suggest that they are of most value to young people between the ages of 16 and 24; and, secondly, it is important that we are relentless in our drive for quality. He is right, too, that as we increase the quantity of apprenticeships there will be a tension with quality, but I shall say a great deal more today about the steps that we have taken and the future steps that we propose to take to achieve just that ambition.
Having said that there is a broad measure of agreement, a point echoed by the hon. Gentleman, I should say, first, that the difference between us and the previous Government is that we have made apprenticeships the pivot around which the rest of the skills system turns. Secondly, we have made them fill a bigger space than ever before. Finally, we have put in place an unparalleled level of funding to support our single-minded aim to create more apprenticeships than modern Britain has ever seen. It is important to point out that that growth has not been only in traditional craft apprenticeships, but in the new crafts too—advanced engineering, IT, the creative industries and financial services.
Why, people might ask, do we put such an emphasis on apprenticeships? It is not just that apprenticeships work, although they do, or that an apprenticeship is probably the most widely recognised brand in the skills shop window, although it is; it is also about what apprenticeships symbolise—the passing on of skills from one generation to the next and the proof that that offers that learning by doing is just as demanding and praiseworthy as learning from a book. As William Morris said, all art and craft is
“the expression by man of his joy in labour”.
It is my ambition to dispel once and for all the myth that one can gain accomplishment only through academic prowess. The sense of worth that people gain through the work of their hands—through practical, technical and vocational skill—needs to be recognised, just as we recognise academic achievement.
It is that sense of apprenticeships as the embodiment of a continuum that guarantees their place at the heart of my vision for skills. I hope that, like me, hon. Members on both sides will welcome the provisional figures that show that, in the academic year that has just finished, nearly 443,000 people started an apprenticeship in England.
Mr Hayes
That is the kind of testing question and penetrating intervention that I expected during this debate. None the less, it was most welcome, and from a Member who never ceases to represent his constituents in the Isle of Wight with vigour, verve and absolute integrity. His support for apprenticeships has been critical in delivering the 100% increase in Isle of Wight apprenticeship numbers to which he has drawn the House’s attention.
Mr Sheerman
Some of us sometimes try to get the Minister to be cross with us because he is always so polite and always strokes the feathers of everyone who asks him a question. However, I have to put it to him again: we all know that apprenticeships are something of a fig leaf for the Government. One million young people are unemployed and the Government keep pointing to what I call the fig leaf of apprenticeships.
Will the Minister stop weaving the myth that they are all three or four-year apprenticeships leading to secure jobs? What is the average length of an apprenticeship today? That is the crucial thing. I think that the Minister is going to have to say that it is about a year. Is that the truth? That is what the public want to know. What quality and length are the apprenticeships of which he is so proud?
Mr Hayes
The hon. Gentleman is renowned for his insight, and I had thought until today that he was equally renowned for his patience. I said that I would deal with quality and I assure him that I will also deal with the length of apprenticeships. I think he is right. Although there is no direct, guaranteed link between the length of an apprenticeship and its quality, there is a relationship. It is not a direct correlation, but it is a correlation none the less.
Today I will set out my demands for a minimum length for apprenticeships. That is perfectly reasonable. As I said, it is not a guarantee of quality, but it will certainly offer considerable assurance to the hon. Gentleman and others who, like me, are determined that quality should match quantity. The hon. Gentleman has, over many years, supported my view that technical education is critical not merely because it serves an economic function—because of its utility—but because of what it does for social mobility and social cohesion. Drawing on his patience and insight once again, I ask the hon. Gentleman to wait a few moments. I shall be speaking about the issue at considerable and eloquent length.
The figures that I cited show that numbers were up by more than half in the 2009-10 academic year. I want to make the point firmly that that includes an increase of about 10% in the number of apprentices under 19. I remind hon. Members that that Government achievement has been completed not merely because of our concentrated effort and the funding that we have put in place, although that is critical, but thanks to the work of further education colleges and other training providers, businesses coming forward and creating apprenticeship places, and learners and their families seizing the opportunity with both hands. The real credit lies with the learners, the training organisations and the businesses that allowed that expansion in the apprenticeship programme to take place.
Mr Hayes
The answer is that I do not know; in these circumstances, it is always right to be straightforward. Because I know that the hon. Gentleman takes these matters seriously and is committed to getting this right, as I am, I will take his point away and look at it. He is arguing that there might be a conflict of interest in terms of provider and employer, and he is right to say that there should be a proper separation. However, as he will know, it is often the case in large companies that the training wing of the company provides the pedagogy associated with an apprenticeship while the apprentice is engaged in the work-based training in the same company, though in a different part of it. I would qualify his query with that caveat. None the less, I will take another look at the subject and will be more than happy to respond to him directly.
The pilot that I described will involve employers being asked to demonstrate how public funding will be used to leverage private investment and commitment to raising skill levels in their sectors or supply chains. As we grow the apprenticeship scheme, it is very important to take advantage of the value chains associated with our major corporates—their supply chains and their distribution chains, where they exist. Typically, Governments have spent insufficient time considering how that might work in the light of the well-established nature of those relationships and the dependence of large organisations on myriad smaller companies, the fragility of which, by their very nature, is possibly injurious to the interests of those corporates.
For example, major suppliers in the automotive industry tend to have very large numbers of organisations with which they deal commercially in their locality, some of which are vital to the effectiveness of such large organisations. It is vital, in their interests and in ours, that we do more to ensure that those relationships allow us to grow the apprenticeship system within SMEs. It may be of value for large companies to absorb some of the bureaucracy and some of the cost, and certainly to absorb some of the management associated with seeding apprenticeships in their value chain. Bidding for the employer-led pilot will formally be launched in the new year.
Above all else, my advocacy of practical learning and my faith in apprenticeships are driven not by economic imperative—not merely by utility—but by social purpose. I said earlier that for too long the myth that only through academic accomplishment can a sense of worth be achieved has been perpetuated by those who themselves have travelled a gilded path to academia. Now it is time once again to recognise what Ruskin and Morris knew—that all those with practical tastes and talents, with technical vocational aptitudes, deserve their chance of glittering prizes too. This is not just because of the relationship between craft and beauty and, in turn, between beauty and truth, but because for society to cohere we must promote the common good through a shared appreciation of what each of can achieve. All feel valued when each feels valued. Given that inequality is the inevitable consequence for a free economy in a free society, only through social mobility can a communal sense of fairness be achieved. A society that is unequal and rigid is bound to be unable to secure the ties of shared identity, as invisible and yet as strong as the heartstrings of love.
Mr Sheerman
The hon. Gentleman and I share a great admiration for the poet John Clare. I am still waiting for a quotation from John Clare, who lived very near his constituency.
May I bring the hon. Gentleman back to the false dichotomy that comes through insidiously in his honeyed words—namely, that there is one group of people going into academia and higher education and a more worthy group going into apprenticeships and more practical learning by doing? This September, 36% of people went into higher education and 6% went into apprenticeships; we want him to talk about the 58% who went in neither direction.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman(13 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Hayes
My hon. Friend will know that I visited his constituency to look at the excellent work that has been done on vocational training. The purpose of the independent advice and guidance is to ensure that people get advice appropriate to their needs. For too long, we have assumed that the only route to prowess came through academic accomplishment. The Government believe that the work of people’s hands matters too, and that those with practical tastes and talents deserve their place in the sun.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister knows that face-to-face contact and advice on careers is essential. Is it not the case that up and down this country schools are giving up on having a highly trained careers person in them and there is no access to an external schools careers service? Is that not sad for the kids in this country who do not have good, well-connected parents to give them the advice that they crave?
Mr Hayes
What preceded the position the Government have adopted was the Connexions service. I am not saying that Connexions did no good, but it certainly was not up to scratch. The skills commission inquiry said that it did not ensure that young people had good advice, Ofsted identified inconsistencies in provision and, as you know, Mr Speaker, Alan Milburn specifically called in his report for a national careers service. Of course face-to-face guidance matters, but it is not all that matters.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between John Hayes and Barry Sheerman(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Hayes
Yes, indeed. We recently announced that we are going to work with all the interested parties in the industry to bring about the kind of technological advance to which my hon. Friend refers. This is a real potential area for growth and we are determined, with the industry, to make that growth happen.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister will know that we are all in favour of apprenticeships these days—we welcome the coalition to the cause—but the fact is that this is all something of a fig leaf, given that all the other education policies seem to be falling apart. Higher education is in meltdown, but all we hear about is apprenticeships and the university technical colleges. This is a fig leaf covering up the lack of policy across the whole education and skills debate.