Oral Answers to Questions
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Claire Perry
Mr Speaker, I am glad that you share my excitement about the improvements in the rail networks. We have set up the £400 million Access for All scheme, which has been wisely and well spent. I am always happy to look at additional station improvements and to meet with my hon. Friend to discuss.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
I rise to support the point made by the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry). I have nine train stations in my constituency. Unfortunately, about half are inaccessible for people in wheelchairs or with prams. We were using Access for All to improve those stations. The funding has been cut in half. Are we really doing enough?
Claire Perry
I am afraid I dispute the statement that funding has been cut in half. The first phase of the programme—£400 million—was delivered, but I am always keen to look at cost-effective ways to improve access for disabled people and young mothers with buggies, for whom a flight of stairs, as I know, and dads like the hon. Gentleman with his daughter know, can be a real problem. I am happy to meet further to discuss.
Claire Perry
Like my hon. Friend I have also visited the Vivarail facility, and there are fantastic innovations with rolling stock that is made of aluminium, is rust free, and could run for many more years. The East Midland franchise competition is coming up this summer, and the successful bidder will be required to bid based on the rolling stock they will provide. We expect them to be innovative and to consider each and every opportunity for rolling stock. We want to improve the rolling stock in my hon. Friend’s region.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
The proposed trans-Pennine tunnel mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) would be transformative, not just for congestion in my constituency, but for our local economy. Yes it is ambitious, but I say that the north is worthy of that level of ambition. Will the Secretary of State reiterate what he has just said, and urge the Chancellor to show his support next week?
Mr McLoughlin
I do not think I need to encourage the Chancellor on infrastructure spending. I have been incredibly successful in securing funding for infrastructure from the Chancellor, who certainly gets the importance of infrastructure investment, not least in the north. Indeed, it is his policy to pursue the northern powerhouse and to take forward transport for the north. That will have a transformative effect on transport between our northern cities and is something other parts of the country are looking to follow.
High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill (Fifth sitting)
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
This will become a Second Reading debate on public ownership if we are not careful.
There is a great deal of heat in the debate, and not much light. I have no time for those who pretend that British Rail was somehow a high-performing publicly owned service. Clearly, there were huge problems, with political interference in the investment periods and all of that leading to the creation of short-term problems. One thing that I struggle with a great deal, however, when comparing rail with other privatised industries is that, as the right hon. Gentleman just said, investment in the railways still comes from the taxpayer and not the private sector, so the risk is not in the private sector, but in the public sector. We, as the people who use the railways and pay our taxes, are the ones who put in the investment. It is Government money, not private money, that will be invested in the control period, is it not?
Sir Simon Burns
The hon. Gentleman is partly right; some of the money is taxpayers’ money, but a significant proportion of what funds the £38 billion over the next five years will be paid by the rail operators to rent the track. There is also the ability for private money to be borrowed for investment, so no, it is not exclusively—
Sir Simon Burns
The hon. Gentleman nods his head in a negative way, but he is wrong. The investment of £38 billion in CP5 is not 100% taxpayers’ money. As I said, part of it is rent accrued from the rail operators, which pay to use the track.
Since privatisation, there has been a will and determination to invest, as well as the actual delivery of investment, to bring our railways up to scratch. The process is time-consuming, sadly, because of the problems arising from the earlier lack of investment. The other sad thing for rail users is that a lot of the investment that is badly needed to improve journey times and the reliability of the service is not seen immediately by them. New rolling stock is immediately seen by commuters and travellers, obviously, and they benefit from it, but when we improve and upgrade the track or the overhead cables on that part of the railway that is being electrified, users do not see the outcome of the investment in the same way. However, such investment is still critical to improving the performance of our railways. I am confident that that will continue.
The hon. Member for Middlesbrough mentioned the east coast main line. I would be the first to accept that it was a well-run part of the network, but it was run under Directly Operated Railways because the last Labour Government rightly withdrew the franchise from the franchisee because there was dissatisfaction with the way it was operating the line. DOR is an emergency mechanism that was introduced in the legislation on privatising the railways because there is a legal requirement for the railways to provide a service all the time. To avoid a hiatus if there is a problem with the franchise, DOR will, for a fixed period of time only, step in to ensure continuity of service.
The hon. Gentleman kept talking about a state-run service. I suppose that DOR could, by definition, be called state-run, but it was not meant to run the line for ever. Even the Labour Transport Secretary who took the action made it plain at the time that there was not going to be a never-ending provision of service by DOR.
Jonathan Reynolds
I did not intend to speak, but as the debate is so interesting I cannot resist the chance to say a few things. In my experience, this debate always reflects pre-existing ideological positions and, frankly, does not often tend to delve into the intricacies of what is best for running a railway. That can be seen in all parts of the House of Commons whenever this debate comes up.
For Government Members there are some difficult facts about our present system that need to be addressed. The existing railway in the UK could not strictly be described as a privatised system. It is a hybrid system; the way that it was initially privatised secured that. A true privatised system would perhaps have been to bring back the Big Four railway companies and have them compete against each other, but that is not what we have at the moment.
There has to be acknowledgment that the system depends on public subsidy. A railway system for a country such as ours would always need a large amount of subsidy. The way that we do that now is to give the subsidy to Network Rail for the infrastructure. When we talk about the francishees paying premiums to the taxpayer, it is because we set the access charges according to the subsidy that we give. It is still a system that requires a net contribution from the taxpayer.
We also have to reflect on the fact that the existing hybrid system is as it is because the initial privatisation simply could not cope with the liabilities. Railtrack simply could not deliver on what was promised, even in the initial honeymoon period. There has to be a reflection that East Coast did work extremely well, even if it was initially intended for a limited period. In effect, many of our railway operations are publicly owned; they are just publicly owned by foreign Governments. Their subsidiary companies operate our system. In addition, our ticketing system is bizarre and complex, and much more expensive than in comparable European countries.
The Opposition and those who traditionally push a nationalised position have to reflect that British Rail was a poor service. We cannot look back to any golden era; I have never pretended that that existed. Equally, when we talk about East Coast we have to reflect that that operated within an overall system of incentives and penalties; that is the privatised operations system that we have.
Fundamentally, we have to recognise that franchises are contracts. Contracts can be good; they can be bad. Some of our initial franchise agreements on the railway were frankly abysmal in the system they operated. Others that have been let more recently have been more effective.
I will vote for the new clause for two reasons: integration and flexibility. Railway systems around the world tend to be more successful with a higher degree of integration between infrastructure and operations. Our existing system causes real problems, and many of the problems for passengers come from that lack of integration.
As the right hon. Member for Chelmsford said, flexibility is the key issue. He mentioned the additional operations from Scarborough being run by Virgin. Although that is welcome, flexibility is the crucial problem with the franchise system. Northern has had huge demand in terms of passenger numbers—it has happened in my constituency. The economy has fundamentally changed and there is huge demand for rail services—in many ways it is a golden era for the railway. However, the franchise agreement could not respond to that demand. It was let on the assumption of zero growth, and I would not have complaints about the people and the process for doing that. Yet we have all the problems of a bureaucratic, nationalised system and none of the attractions of a market system, which would respond to a price signal from the market. That is why we have problems of overcrowding, poor services and inability to meet demand.
There are many examples of successful, publicly-owned railways around the world. I recently got back from Hong Kong, which is not renowned as a socialist utopia—it is a dynamic, capitalist part of the world economy, with a publicly-owned railway. We can always look to examples from that country; indeed, we need to look around the world for best practice in running a railway. I am comfortable with the new clause, because we need to look at how best we can integrate our railway, to deliver the best deal for passengers. It should be permissive: we always need to leave the door open for a more integrated system, even if we have our existing hybrid system at the moment, which—based on the length of those franchise agreements—will be with us for a considerable time. This conversation needs to be focused more on the best way to run a railway and less on pre-existing ideological positions.
Mr Goodwill
The intention of the proposed new clause is to require passenger services operating on whole or part of the high speed line to be provided by a publicly-owned railway company, essentially nationalising HS2 train services. I regularly travel on the east coast main line—indeed, the hon. Member for Middlesbrough and I travelled on the same train on Monday morning, on the Grand Central service, which was set up by buccaneering free market innovator Tom Clift, who is sadly no longer with us, and his team. That successful open-access operator has been taken over by Deutsche Bahn. It regularly tops the league in passenger satisfaction and punctuality. Most of the staff come from Sunderland and they are a model of the customer service that we expect on our railways.
The proposed clause would restrict the operating structure of HS2 at this early stage—essentially seeking to nationalise the HS2 rail service, which is against the broader principles of how successful rail services in the UK are currently operating. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford has done my job for me in making the case to reject this new clause.
With regard to the commercial operation of phase 1 of HS2, it is imperative that we keep our options open. With the line not due to open until 2026, decisions on the commercial model to operate HS2 are some time away. Whatever those decisions might be, they will be made to seek the best value. This is about delivering the best service at the best price for the passenger and the taxpayer, not pandering to outdated 1970s socialist dogma. The rail franchising system is designed to deliver benefits for passengers and taxpayers, which are realised through competition. Since privatisation the rail industry has been transformed, with passenger journeys more than doubling over the past 20 years, from 750 million to around 1.6 billion. We believe that this remains the right approach overall in delivering the best value for the country and tax and fare payers.
The model that is being delivered in the UK is being emulated around Europe: for example, National Express is operating two franchises in Germany. As we have heard, the east coast main line is extending new services to Middlesbrough and Sunderland, and we have heard this week that a direct service to Scarborough is being considered. If one needed an image that encapsulates what is wrong with British Rail, it would be the pacer train, which was built by British Rail under a nationalised British Leyland. It was an infinitely unpopular train, and when this Government came to power we gave a pledge to phase it out.
Jonathan Reynolds
The Minister and I have had this exchange about the pacer train before. Has the longevity of the pacer train not been due in part to the fact that they are very cheap to run? Under the franchised model, it has been very hard to get rid of them, unless there has been an explicit overruling of the market system by Ministers. The private operations—the market—cannot get rid of the pacer trains; it has to be a political decision.
Mr Goodwill
The pacer train was the offspring of the position that a state-run railway can often find itself in, faced with other demands on public sector finances, not least the health service. Built on the cheap, with single-axle units without bogies and the correct suspension, the pacer trains were never going to be fit for purpose and were very unpopular. I am delighted that the Government are going to phase them out.
Jonathan Reynolds
Surely the Minister recognises that he, or certainly his Secretary of State, has had explicitly to overrule the civil service—by ministerial direction—to get rid of the pacer trains. There has had to be an explicit political decision, because the market alone would not have got rid of it.
Mr Goodwill
Another factor in our ability to phase out the pacer is the fact that with new rolling stock coming in in so many areas, we have other rolling stock cascading down to replace the pacers. This is a direct result of the investment in the rolling stock. On the east coast main line we look forward very much to the IEP trains built by Hitachi in the north-east, which, I think, will be a phenomenal improvement to that service and free up rolling stock for some of the new services that will be provided on the non-electrified part of the network.
Section 24 of the Railways Act 1993 states that the appropriate designating authority—in the case of HS2, the Secretary of State—may by order grant exemption from designation of a service to require a franchise under section 23(1) of that Act. Therefore, if so decided, the HS2 service will not require a franchise. However, as I have already stressed, the commercial model to operate the HS2 infrastructure and train service are yet to be determined. To speculate, it may well involve some sort of transitional phase in the early years.
With the ability to exempt a service from the franchise requirement set out in the Railways Act 1993, I do not believe it is necessary to include the proposed new clause in the Bill. With that explanation, I hope the hon. Member will withdraw his proposed new clause, although I am not too optimistic that he will.
High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill (Fourth sitting)
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Goodwill
As we have just heard, clause 48 refers to compulsory acquisition of land for regeneration or relocation. It enables the Secretary of State to promote a compulsory purchase order if he considers that the construction or operation of phase 1 of HS2 gives rise to an opportunity for regeneration or development of that land. The clause further enables the Secretary of State to promote a compulsory purchase order to acquire land to relocate all or part of an undertaking where, as a result of the exercise of powers under the Bill, the former site is no longer reasonably capable of being used for the undertaking. Subsection (4) provides that the normal process relating to compulsory orders is to apply.
The power is included in the Bill because Ministers wish to maximise the potential economic benefits from phase 1 of HS2 to ensure that local areas make the most of the opportunities that the railway will provide and to support relocation of businesses. It is considered that phase 1 of HS2 will give rise to significant opportunities to promote or facilitate regeneration development. However, assembling a coherent and developable site is an essential part of bringing forward such development and that would not be possible without the ability to have recourse to the powers of compulsory purchase.
As we say in information paper C11, we see this as a backstop power. It would normally be for local landowners and local authorities to come together to assemble land to bring forward regeneration. However, that may not be possible in some cases and regeneration opportunities could be lost. Ebbsfleet is a good example because development, although now under way, has been much delayed and such powers could have enabled more effective land assembly earlier.
Of course, all that does not mean that phase 1 of HS2 will be able to take land wherever it wants. All the measure does is enable the Secretary of State to promote a compulsory order when the construction or operation of phase 1 creates regeneration or development opportunities. Such an order would then need to go through the normal process, including a local inquiry, if there were objections.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
I think I get the gist of what the Minister is saying. When a regeneration project, perhaps in Manchester or on another part of the line, is connected to the benefits that HS2 will bring, does he expect the normal process of land accumulation and scheme formation to occur? Is this measure a reserved power should there be a legal problem in assembling the site? “Backstop power” was the phrase he used. Does he envisage that the normal process would apply for regeneration work to occur in a local area?
Mr Goodwill
The hon. Gentleman is right. The owners of land close to HS2 stations or areas where HS2 will have an economic benefit will be grasping such opportunities with both hands. The land will have achieved an uplift in value and the opportunities will be fantastic. Problems might include a particular landowner not wanting to co-operate or another acquisition problem. This is not just about land development, but about the relocation of businesses, and I can think of one or two such examples. We need to be sure that we can bring forward viable opportunities for businesses to be relocated, which will protect those particular jobs.
To promote a compulsory purchase order successfully, the Secretary of State would need to demonstrate three things. First, that a private purchase is not possible, so the land should be taken compulsorily. Secondly, that there is a reasonable prospect of the proposed development coming forward—in other words, that there is no obvious reason why planning permission would not be granted if has not been already. Thirdly, that there is a compelling public-interest need for the land. Taking an individual’s land interferes with their fundamental human rights, so it is only right that significant protections should be in place. The power does not change those protections at all. Although it extends beyond the construction period into operation, checks and balances will continue to be in place.
Although local authorities already have the power to make compulsory purchase orders, it does not always happen. The power is there to ensure that development does happen, and we would expect local authorities to take the opportunity to lead development in their areas. However, in certain circumstances local authorities might be unable to do so, either because regeneration opportunities straddle local authority boundaries or because a local authority does not have the specialist resource to undertake the compulsory purchase order process. In such circumstances, if development is not coming forward in a timeframe that maximises the opportunity, the Government will be able to use this power to accelerate the process, following consultation with the relevant local authority.
Of course, there are safeguards to protect landowners. Planning permission for any developments would need to be obtained in the usual way, and the compulsory purchase order would be made only if there was a reasonable prospect of obtaining planning permission and the compulsory acquisition could be justified as being in the public interest.
I turn to the amendments. The purpose of clause 48(1) is to ensure that the development and regeneration opportunities that HS2 presents are maximised in a timely manner. However, it is a backstop power. We expect local authorities or landowners to be able to capitalise on any opportunities. Indeed, that is already happening. For example, Birmingham City Council has already published its plans for the development of the Curzon Street area, and we support it on that. However, in the event that there are issues that impede development, such as effective land packaging, regeneration areas straddling different local authority boundaries and so on, we will have the ability to step in and to help the development progress. Any such developments that require land outside the Bill limits would require the promotion of a compulsory purchase order and, as I have explained, the rules are tightly drawn and must be adhered to.
High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill (Third sitting)
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Goodwill
I get the impression that we are now into territory that is not as consensual as it was, although we would all agree that it is important to get the best possible value when assets owned by the state are transferred to a buyer or via a share issue to the general public. It is absolutely right that if someone is selling off what some people might call the family silver they get a fair value, although that perhaps would not apply to the family gold under the Brown Government—in hindsight, that was not such a good deal.
I will not speculate too much on some of the issues that the hon. Gentleman raised, such as Royal Mail, but the process of privatisation has been successful. British Airways is now an international group. Engineering companies such as Rolls-Royce, and others such as BT and British Gas were all state owned, and all have gone on to become international companies unfettered by the restrictions that the state can often impose.
Clause 45 allows the Secretary of State to make schemes to transfer property rights and/or liabilities from HS2 to another person, which includes the Secretary of State. This power also allows the transfer to take place mid-delivery should it be required. Subsection (3) introduces schedule 30, which makes further provision about transfer schemes made under the clause.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
I am listening to the Minister very carefully and I agree that there are many good examples of British industries that have performed very well in the private sector from the ‘70s and ‘80s. But he would surely separate that out conceptually from ensuring that a fair price for the taxpayer is raised at the initial point of issue of those shares in the private sector? If he reflects, he will admit that in various high-profile cases, particularly under this Government and the coalition Government, there was a feeling out there that state assets were undersold to increase the gain as quickly as possible for the people buying them. Those two issues are surely separate.
Mr Goodwill
Well, yes, often hindsight is a marvellous thing and markets move in different directions. It has always been the Government’s intention to ensure that we get best value, but also to ensure that share issues are taken up. There is a difficult balance between pitching a price at such a level that the shares are taken up and pitching a price that achieves best value. However, the track record of this Government shows that we have been stalwart custodians of the public purse. We have not wasted money. We have borne down on the deficit. We have got sound money back again in our economy and there is confidence around the world that we are sound managers of public finances. Indeed, in the Budget later this month, we will see more examples of that being delivered to the House.
High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill (First sitting)
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
I am delighted to be here in Committee. I have served on Bill Committees that have been likened to being on a long train journey in the same carriage with the same people for several weeks. However, at two weeks, this is a high-speed Committee.
I am a supporter of HS2 and have been a supporter of investment in our rail network for some time. HS2 is a very good project for my constituency and for Greater Manchester. That is widely recognised, and the justification is capacity. Even when a lot of publicity was initially given to the speed of the journey time, for me the project was always about capacity. The figures bear that out. Anyone who has caught a train at a particular time from Euston to Manchester Piccadilly will be familiar with our capacity problems. It is extremely clear when we look at the alternatives that patching the existing network or building a new line that is not a high-speed line will not meet the capacity need. The evidence is that we need a project such as this. We have support for the project from both sides of the House of Commons and we should proceed as soon as possible.
The consensus on the merits of the project means that we have to be particularly diligent in Committee to make sure that the powers granted to the Government in the Bill are proportionate and effective. As has been said, the High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill went through an extremely good process and garnered more support for the project as it proceeded. I read clause 4, as my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough did, as a wide-ranging and permissive set of powers, particularly subsection (4). My reading of it makes it, in legal terms, the same as a compulsory purchase order. There will be understandable concerns that it will weaken accountability and the scrutiny that we gave the provision in the High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill. We need to be careful that we do not lose some of the good will that we have garnered so far in this process. I hope that the Minister will make clear why the clause is drafted as widely as it is. Will he tell us the benefits of the clause over the reasonable amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough?
Mr Goodwill
As we have already discussed, clause 4 refers to powers to acquire land compulsorily. Compulsory powers are needed because they are a tried and tested method of delivering major infrastructure projects. We have provided safeguards for property owners that go beyond the statutory requirements under normal compulsory purchase rules. For example, we have introduced the voluntary purchase scheme for properties between 60 and 120 metres from the centre of the railway and the need-to-sell scheme for those who have suffered perceived blight due to the railway. The latter has no geographical limit.
The detail of the modifications is set out in the schedule. The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde talked about the importance of capacity. We need to be clear that when we talk about capacity, we are talking about people standing on trains. On most weekday mornings about 4,000 or 5,000 people are standing on trains into Euston and a smaller but still significant number are standing on trains into Birmingham New Street.
The hon. Member for Middlesbrough mentioned clause 65(c). This does not seek to purchase land specifically for phase 2; it relates only to land within limits and does not give a general power to acquire land. While I am not against the flow of what the hon. Gentleman is saying, I believe that we have already addressed his fears in the way we have drafted the Bill. Indeed, clause 4(1) contains the power to acquire all land required for the scheme. The Bill divides that land into different categories. The main category is land within the limits of deviation for the work set out in schedule 1. Other land needed for construction and ancillary purposes is specified and identified in schedules 5, 7, 8, 11, 12 and 16, together with the purpose for which that land is required. There is, therefore, no land within clause 4(1) that is not specifically authorised for compulsory purchase.
Transport: Glossop and High Peak
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)
This is the second time that I have called a debate on the roads in and around Glossop, and I make no apology for debating the subject again in the Chamber. I have called a second debate tonight because of the events of recent weeks, when the inadequacy of these roads has created more misery for my constituents. Such is the strength of feeling about the matter among people who live in High Peak, particularly in Glossop, that there is now a petition on the parliamentary website created by my constituent David Saggerson. As we know, such petitions will trigger a debate if they receive 100,000 signatures. I did not want to wait for that so I am using the Adjournment debate mechanism to hold the debate that almost 3,000 people have already signed up for.
It was recently reported that the viewing figures for the BBC Parliament channel had hit an all-time high. If those figures were measured again tonight around Glossop, and perhaps also in Stalybridge and Hyde, I am sure they would be even greater. That is not because of my constituents’ desire to follow every word and deed of their Member of Parliament—I wish that were so—but it is testament to the desperate need felt in and around Glossop for a solution to the deplorable situation facing residents as they attempt to go about their everyday business. I feel sure that following tonight’s debate, the Minister’s and my own Twitter feeds will see a significant increase in traffic, as will my Facebook page.
In the time allowed, I cannot begin to convey the frustration felt by my residents about this issue, but I intend to try. From our previous conversations I know that the Minister is aware of the situation, but I shall add some background and context.
The Mottram-Tintwistle bypass has become almost as fabled as the Loch Ness monster. Governments of all colours have threatened and promised to deliver it and have conspicuously failed. When I was first elected in 2010, I was conscious of the need to promise my best efforts to deliver this badly needed and much delayed road. I and the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) put aside our political differences and joined forces in an attempt to sort the issue out once and for all.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate, which will be genuinely appreciated in our part of the world. I appreciate the opportunity we have had to work together constructively to make progress on the issue. In 2010, in a difficult financial climate, we were told that this was not a viable option, yet we have been able to make progress, for which I am extremely grateful, as are my constituents.
I also want briefly to thank the Minister. We have dealt with many roads Ministers over the years, but I have always found the current one attentive and genuinely serious about trying to help us. I know that he is planning to visit us very soon, which I appreciate.
The recent problems around Glossop are absolutely untenable, even for a part of the world that is used to congestion. The situation in Broadbottom, Mottram and Hollingworth was unbearable while the roadworks were taking place. The only answer is a bypass. There are two points that I hope the hon. Gentleman will address in his speech. First, the bypass must go around Hollingworth as well as Mottram; that is the comprehensive solution we need. Secondly, we need the consultation to begin as soon as possible.
Andrew Bingham
I completely agree. Politically, the hon. Gentleman and I are miles apart, but on this matter we are in total agreement, as we will continue to be.
In 2010 the hon. Gentleman and I gathered together the key organisations and commissioned our own study, which we managed to get funded, to produce evidence that would confirm what we both knew to be obvious, as did the people of Glossop, Stalybridge and Hyde, which is that the situation then, as now, was unacceptable. The roads are simply not up to the needs of our residents. In the ensuing time we have pursued the matter relentlessly, both together and independently. That culminated in a meeting I had with the Chancellor at No. 11 Downing Street, during which I impressed on him the seriousness of the problem and how we could not ignore it any longer as it was only going to get worse.
In late 2014 I was delighted that, following our work, the Government announced the building of the Mottram Moor link road and the A57 link road, which is known locally as the Glossop spur. It was not the full solution that I have campaigned for—I will refer to that later—but we were promised that a study would be done to examine extending it to deal with the problems faced at Tintwistle in my constituency and Hollingworth in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. On that point, I strongly argue that the scheme should indeed be extended, along the lines of the original Mottram and Tintwistle bypass plan put forward years ago, because we need that for those two small villages.
I realise that the Minister will not have the intimate knowledge of the area that I do. I could embark on a long description of the road networks, the junctions and the geography, but by happy coincidence he will visit High Peak tomorrow, and I look forward to showing him the situation at first hand. Seeing it for himself will demonstrate the problem far better than any description I could give tonight. I would like to thank him in advance for visiting High Peak. Tonight I want to try to impress upon him a sense of the difficulties being faced, the impact they are having on my constituents and the urgency of the issue. In order to do that, I need to relate some of the happenings of the past few weeks.
The town of Glossop and the surrounding area are home to over 30,000 people. Despite being in the east midlands, Glossop very much faces Manchester and the north-west, for employment, leisure and many other facets of life. Consequently, there is a huge volume of traffic that heads in and through Glossop as people travel to, from and between Greater Manchester and Sheffield. There are only two effective roads heading north from Glossop to Manchester, one of which relies on a single-track bridge that was never designed to carry significant amounts of traffic. The fact that it is even considered by motorists, let alone used, proves the point I am making about the existing roads.
However, due to the congestion on the main route out of town, that route north has become a well-used alternative—until earlier this month, when a burst water main washed away the road surface in the village of Charlesworth, forcing its closure. The consequences were catastrophic. I received many emails from constituents, some of whom were leaving home well before dawn just to get out of Glossop and get to work for 9 am, and they were facing similar travel times when trying to get home. Indeed, when I was trying to get to Stalybridge one Friday evening I was forced to take a detour of several miles to complete the journey.
The closure of what is, in effect, only a back road pretty much gridlocked Glossop, and indeed the whole area, for over a week. I was informed that the chaos was such that a child who had suffered a seizure in Glossop and who needed an urgent ambulance faced an unacceptable delay, purely because of the blocked roads, so this catastrophic situation could easily have turned into a tragedy.
A further complication that week was the cancellation of trains, which meant that more cars went on to roads that were already overburdened. However, I must stress that the Minister should not think that last week’s traffic problems were the cause of the problem; they were only the result of the contributory factors I have outlined, and they only exaggerated an already truly unacceptable situation.
Earlier this week, the M62 was blocked. Yet again, trans-Pennine traffic looking for an alternative route was forced on to the Woodhead Pass, which converges with the A57 just outside Glossop. The ensuing traffic chaos caused traffic jams going back huge distances, snaking through Tintwistle and several miles beyond.
I want to focus briefly on Tintwistle, which the Minister will visit tomorrow. A constituent, Vicky Mullis, who is a resident of Tintwistle, invited me to meet the village’s residents to talk about the problems it faces. As the Minister will see tomorrow, they feel their houses physically shake as heavy goods vehicles thunder past, literally a few feet from their front doors. Furthermore, when the traffic backs up, as it did earlier this week, cars resort to taking short cuts through the village to try to get in front of the other traffic—they are using the roads as a rat run. I am trying to convince Derbyshire County Council, as the highways authority for those roads, to take action. Thus far, it seems somewhat impervious to my protestations, but I will continue.
That is why I still fully support looking at extending the proposed scheme. The scheme does much for Glossop and for parts of the constituency of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde. However, it does nothing for Tintwistle, so the extension is as crucial as going ahead with the two link roads already in the programme.
There are more factors we can take into account when we consider the need for this solution. Significant planning consents have recently been granted in Glossop. That will increase the population and thereby increase traffic levels.
The imminent withdrawal of the 394 bus service from Glossop to Stepping Hill hospital in Stockport—I and my hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (William Wragg) are trying to find ways to preserve the route—could move more constituents who have cars on to the roads. I could use more of the debate to talk about the 394 bus alone, because a lot of constituents are contacting me about it, and they are alarmed at the loss of that vital service. However, I want to return to the issue of traffic and to look at the economic consequences.
At the moment, a wide range of businesses operate in Glossop, covering various forms of industry, manufacturing and services, and we are always looking to attract more. However, the ongoing traffic difficulties are making it increasingly difficult to get businesses to open in Glossop. It is a thriving, fantastic town, and it is in a great position, but people are looking at it and thinking, “Hang on. How am I going to get my customers and clients in and out of the town?” They are now thinking twice about coming to Glossop and bringing in more jobs.
On top of that, I have spoken to companies based in Glossop that are really beginning to think that the traffic is suffocating the town. I fear that they we will not only not get new businesses in, but lose the businesses we already have, because they will move elsewhere as a result of the inaccessibility.
On a wider point about the economy, the A628 Woodhead Pass is a significant route connecting the east and the west of the country. I applaud the Chancellor for his work on the northern powerhouse, and it is a great initiative, but for it to work properly the two ends of the powerhouse—the east and the west, Sheffield and Manchester—need to link up. The route-based strategy on the M62, which was produced some time ago, already flags up the fact that the M62 is nearing capacity. That increases the significance of the A628 as a trans-Pennine route. If we look at other trans-Pennine routes, we see that there is the A69 in the north and then the M62; the next one down is the A628. All this congestion is therefore blocking a vital artery connecting the east and the west, and I have a welter of statistics and evidence to prove that. I know the Minister will have seen it, because some of it comes from studies carried out by his own Department.
I have tried to encapsulate the situation as best I can in the time allowed. Much will become clearer tomorrow when the Minister visits, but I do want to impress on him the seriousness of the situation.
I am delighted that the Government agreed to build this road. It was announced in December 2014. The Prime Minister himself, in an answer to me at Prime Minister’s Question Time, confirmed that a future Conservative Government would build the road. I was delighted with that. I have that copy of Hansard pinned on my office wall to remind me what we have promised, and I intend to deliver on that promise if we can. However, the delight and expectations that were raised in late 2014 are turning into frustration because the wait goes on. In Glossop, it is now not just the Government’s reputation that is at stake; I have made a commitment to my constituents, and I am determined to stick to it. I keep repeating this, but I cannot stress it enough: I cannot begin to describe the groundswell of public opinion on this matter.
Many people across Glossop will be watching this debate tonight. They will watch it later on YouTube or whatever medium they want to use. Two constituents, Robert McColl and his son Kallen, have travelled down here specially to be in the Public Gallery to listen to this, such is the desire of the people of Glossop to sort the problem out and sort it quickly. We know that one part of the road is going to be built—the two relief roads. That is great, because we need that extended scheme for the people of Tintwistle and of Hollingworth in the constituency of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde. I urge the Minister—I have known him for years, and he is a man of honour and integrity—to give my constituents, and indeed me, some hope that this process can be conducted quickly and with urgency so that we can see spades in the ground as soon as possible.
It is now quarter past 5 on a Thursday evening. If this was live on the radio, there would be people sat on the A57 and the A628, and sat around Glossop, listening to it, saying, “Minister, let’s hear what we want to hear. We need this road, we’re sat in this traffic, we’re starving the town, we’re starving High Peak.” I do not exaggerate: this is the biggest single issue facing the Glossopdale area. If it is not resolved, it will have catastrophic effects on everybody. The people of Glossop and I are desperate—we cannot carry on like this any longer.
Andrew Jones
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. Indeed, I plan to use the A628 to reach him tomorrow morning. I have already planned my route, so I understand his point.
We recognise that the routes need substantial improvement to meet the needs of the local economy and the environment and better to fulfil their role in our national transport network. That relates to trans-Pennine connectivity and we should not forget that, as well as serving local communities and businesses, the routes also play a broader national role.
The trans-Pennine upgrade programme seeks to improve journeys through a number of schemes, including a new dual carriageway creating a Mottram Moor link road; a new single carriageway link from Mottram Moor to Brookfield; further dualling on the A61; and climbing lanes on the A628. A number of other smaller measures will also be put in place to address the accident blackspots. We are very aware of the specific environmental protections that are in place in and around those locations, including special areas of conservation and sites of special scientific interest. We will, therefore, work closely with the national park authority.
For any proposals to go ahead, they will need to be sensitively designed and their potential impacts will have to be properly assessed and understood so that the improvements are in keeping with the significance of the park’s protected landscape. As part of the process of developing and delivering the investment, consultation will take place with local communities and stakeholders. That will include the scope and viability of further improvements and extensions to the Mottram Moor link road that would alleviate the issues faced in Tintwistle and Hollingworth. Highways England has been developing options for each of those schemes, to determine how best to meet the transport needs of the local communities while addressing environmental and other concerns. That balance needs to be achieved. Early consultation with key stakeholders such as the local authorities, utilities companies and the Peak District national park authority is already informing the development and assessment of the options.
I anticipate that a full public consultation will commence in April 2017, and the next step would be to submit an application for a development consent order in summer or early autumn 2018.
Jonathan Reynolds
In addition to the Minister’s visit tomorrow, he will probably find in his red box a letter from me, saying that we would be extremely grateful if he would consider binging forward the public consultation to the end of 2016. I know he is not be able to give a commitment on that now, but it would generate so much good will and make the project proceed faster, which would be tremendous.
Andrew Jones
I give an undertaking to both Members who are present that I will do all I can to achieve that. They have made their case eloquently. I recognise the issues that are faced by the local communities that they represent, and we will do all we can to help.
In terms of timing, I expect that after the development consent order, we will commence construction in the financial year 2019-20, and the schemes will potentially be open for traffic three years later. I recognise the case for urgency that has been a clear theme this evening, so if it is possible to bring the dates forward, I will certainly try to do so.
The new schemes will follow recent investment that we have already made in the network. As a result of resurfacing schemes undertaken in recent years, the condition of the road surface on the A628 and the A57 has improved since 2010, resulting in a 68% reduction in the number of potholes. Works are taking place, but I recognise that we are looking at more significant, longer-term answers.
In addition to the commitments in the road investment strategy, the Department is undertaking a study on improving connections between Manchester and Sheffield by way of a trans-Pennine tunnel. Through that study, we seek to understand the viability, costs and deliverability of such a connection, and to determine its role and priority in the emerging transport strategy for the north. The construction of such a connection carries with it the potential to reduce traffic on existing routes in the area and to bring important environmental benefits to the Peak District national park.
The initial report of the trans-Pennine tunnel study was published on 30 November last year. It found that there is a clear strategic case for the scheme that is aligned with central and subnational government policy, and that the construction of a new strategic route between Manchester and Sheffield is technically feasible, although very challenging. The scale of the wider economic benefit has yet to be established, but initial analysis shows that the benefit could be significant and complementary to other schemes in the developing northern powerhouse strategy. The study’s final report will be published by the end of the year, and will be used to inform the content of our second road investment strategy.
Transport includes more than just roads, so I hope my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak will not mind if I talk a little about rail in the area. As part of the proposed northern hub capacity enhancement, Network Rail has proposed works at the eastern end of the Hope Valley line. A passing loop is to be provided east of Bamford, and the line is to be redoubled at Dore and Totley station.
Oral Answers to Questions
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
An ingenious but unsuccessful attempt, I am afraid, if Members look at the terms of the question on the Order Paper.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
Labour supports the extension of high-speed rail services to Scotland. To get there, however, we will have to get to the north of England first. Why are we still waiting for Ministers to confirm the route and the stations for HS2 north of Birmingham, and does the Secretary of State understand that this lack of progress is placing their commitment to HS2 in the midlands and the north in doubt?
Mr McLoughlin
With the greatest charity, I do not think the hon. Gentleman can get away with that. We have been making progress on HS2. In 13 years, Labour only woke up to the HS2 project in year 13. The progress we have made far outstrips the progress the Labour party ever made.
Claire Perry
Again, this is part of the overall proposals. As my hon. Friend knows, the western rail link is absolutely vital. It has been set out, and work is going on to make sure exactly how it is delivered. We understand how important it is. My hon. Friend represents a fine city. He and I went through Box tunnel together on a little people mover—[Interruption] That sounds worse than it is—with others to see at first hand the transformational effect that electrification work is having on his city.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
The unpausing of the rail electrification programme is welcome, but the news that completion will be delayed and the costs much higher has understandably caused dismay. The cost of the electrification programme is now set to be at least £2.5 billion more than planned. As a result, Network Rail’s borrowing limit has had to be increased by £700 million, with the rest of the money being found from the sale of its assets. What assurances can the Government give that these asset sales will be sufficient; and given that the costs have already risen by 70%, what happens if they rise further still?
Claire Perry
The hon. Gentleman raises the delivery risk inherent in all these things. This is the biggest transformation project for more than 100 years, and he is absolutely right that it has to be funded with both Government money and third party asset sales. A huge amount of due diligence has gone into that work, which is ongoing, but we now have a plan and are confident that £38 billion will be committed and that 850 miles of track will be electrified.
Oral Answers to Questions
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr McLoughlin
We have covered £38.5 billion of investment in Network Rail over this control period. We are looking at ways in which other funding can be made available.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
It was reported this week that due to the delay to the Great Western electrification programme taxpayers could be paying £3 million a week for trains that cannot move anywhere, or that they might have to foot the bill for fitting diesel engines to electric trains. Will the Secretary of State tell us who is to blame for this fiasco? Is it Network Rail for the delay to the work, is it the Department for Transport for signing the contract in the first place, or is it simply a symptom of the privatised structure of our railway that causes the kind of fragmentation that makes disasters like this frankly inevitable?
Mr McLoughlin
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his position. He talks about privatised railways leading to this kind of disaster. This is a great example of somebody who has not held ministerial office, or who has just been in opposition, being able to forget everything that happened in the past. I remember, however, what the Labour candidate for Mayor of London, the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan), said:
“one reason we are able to invest record sums in our railway service is the revenues that the franchises bring in and the premiums that they pay”.—[Official Report, 1 July 2009; Vol. 495, c. 430.]
We are seeing record investment in our railway because of how we are running it. At the time it was fully nationalised we saw a declining railway, a useless railway, a railway that was not fit for purpose—something the Labour party wants to go back to.
Rail Services: Portsmouth and the South-West
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
It is always a pleasure to serve under your stewardship in this Chamber, Sir Roger. I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Mrs Drummond) on securing today’s debate. Having previously brought similar debates to this House for my own area in Greater Manchester, I know just how important rail travel and public transport are to constituents and how appreciative they are when their Members of Parliament raise such matters.
I am pleased to see the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry), responding on behalf of the Government. When this debate was first announced, it caused considerable excitement in Her Majesty’s Opposition’s transport team. Would, we wondered, the debate be responded to by the rail Minister or the Minister for Portsmouth? I can only conclude that that decision was made at the highest levels of Government, but I am delighted to see the rail Minister here today.
As the hon. Member for Portsmouth South made clear in her opening speech, rail services in Portsmouth and the south-west face several issues. When the Minister replies to the debate, I am sure that she will have been left in no doubt about where improvements are needed, and I hope that the hon. Member for Portsmouth South receives the answers that she requested.
Some of the problems that have been raised in this debate are simply down to poor levels of service, whereas some are down to poor decisions that the Government have made. Others, however, are due to the poor system we have for running rail services in the UK, and I will say something about all those issues in my reply.
The record of this Government, and indeed, of the previous Conservative-led coalition Government, is much less favourable than they like to make out. I often find that the rhetoric that we hear in the House of Commons on rail matters simply does not match the experience of our constituents and passengers, and often shows a real disconnect from their everyday commuting reality. It is one thing for us to sit here in Westminster and debate the performance of rail services in Portsmouth and the south-west, but perhaps those who are best placed to judge it are the rail users themselves. Unfortunately, the results do not make for good reading, with a steady decrease in passenger satisfaction, which the hon. Lady referred to, and which I hope the Minister will address in her reply. We have seen decreases in passenger satisfaction across the board in Portsmouth, with perhaps the most striking statistic being that just 21% of commuters believe that their services are good value for money. When taxpayers are making a net payment of nearly £4 billion a year to the railways as a whole, on top of ever rising fares, the fact that passenger satisfaction is decreasing should cause great alarm to the Minister. I look forward to hearing how she intends to rectify that.
Rail users in Portsmouth and the south-west have not been immune to the trend of rising fares either, with commuters in particular being hit hard. By next year, the cost of a season ticket from Portsmouth to Eastleigh will have increased by 25% since 2010, and the cost of a season ticket from Portsmouth to London by 26%, a rise of more than £1,000. The mixture of rising fares and decreasing satisfaction in Portsmouth is clearly not a good combination and suggests that real change is needed.
The Government have announced plans to increase fares only by inflation during this Parliament, with the Minister herself saying recently that that policy would cost about £700 million a year in lost revenue, but we have not been offered an explanation of how the Government will make up that significant fall in revenue. My fear is that it will be another broken promise after the electrification fiascos. I hope that at the very least she can give us a guarantee today that services will not be cut to pay for that panicked pre-election announcement.
Labour Members think that passengers should simply have access to clearer ticketing and be able to get a better deal than they can currently. Fares and ticketing structures in this country are some of the most complex in Europe, and it is passengers who often pay the additional price.
There is, of course, as we have heard today, another scourge of train passengers in the south-west—overcrowding. That problem is faced by many services around the country, including in my own area in Greater Manchester. Clearly, extra capacity is desperately needed. The previous Labour Government invested more in the railways in real terms, especially in Portsmouth and the south-west, than any previous Government. In 2013, two Portsmouth commuter trains were named as among the 10 most overcrowded rail services in the country; both had load factors of more than 150%. Since then, services to and from Portsmouth have not featured in the top 10. However, before we start celebrating, it would probably be safe to assume that Portsmouth’s non-inclusion reflects greater levels of overcrowding elsewhere rather than better services for Portsmouth commuters.
Franchising fiascos have also become a theme under this Government, as they were under the previous, Conservative-led Government. We saw the shambles of the west coast main line franchising process, which had a knock-on effect on other services, and the disappointing decision not to keep the profitable east coast service publicly owned. Yet again, Portsmouth and the south-west have had experience of this problem. In July of this year, just two months after the Government took office, the Minister’s Department announced that negotiations to agree a direct award for South West Trains with Stagecoach had broken down. As a result, the franchising timetable has had to be redrawn. Most concerning of all is that the Department for Transport spent more than £800,000 on contract negotiations with Stagecoach, yet failed to reach a satisfactory outcome. I hope that the Minister, in her reply, can confirm whether the Department has recovered those costs and can expand some more on why the negotiations broke down.
It appears that the Minister has not seriously considered the possibility of using Directly Operated Railways. She should need no convincing of DOR’s record, given that it delivered record passenger satisfaction and punctuality scores on east coast services and there was a public outcry when the franchise was handed to Virgin. The Government simply do not have a good record on franchise negotiation. I suggest that to avoid the problem, they could simply come round to the Labour party’s way of thinking, which is that we should bin the franchising system altogether, because it is simply too costly and inefficient and creates an inflexible railway unable to meet the needs of passengers.
Another recurring theme under this Government has been the troubled approach to electrification—something that the south-west has also suffered from. The Labour Government committed to the electrification of the Great Western main line in the south-west back in 2009, but under this Government the cost has escalated drastically and the project is now delayed. Labour Members have repeatedly warned that the Great Western main line electrification is in danger because of rising costs. The estimated cost is now three times higher than in 2011. It is currently a staggering £1.74 billion. The Government have attempted to lay some of the blame at Network Rail’s door, but the Minister must also take responsibility for not confirming the project until July 2012, meaning that essential planning work was delayed. Even Network Rail’s head of long-term planning and funding has alluded to that, saying that it did not have the level of confidence that it might have wished at the start.
All this is becoming too usual, and it is rail users who will suffer because of the delays and cost increases. The faster trains and increased capacity that south-west rail users want and hon. Members have requested here today will not be delivered on time. What will particularly irk passengers will be not seeing improvements in rolling stock. The Government’s plans to replace uncomfortable and inaccessible Pacer trains on branch lines in the south-west depend on the success of the electrification programme. If the Great Western electrification project is significantly delayed, passengers in the south-west are likely to suffer with poor rolling stock for years—stock that the Government have agreed is unacceptable for my constituents in the north of England.
I do not expect the Minister to offer any solutions to that today, as the Government have previously said that until the Hendy report is published they cannot give any credible promises on the delivery timetables of any other projects. I would be grateful, however, if the Minister could confirm in her reply the date on which the Hendy report is due to be published, as one would hope that it would be available in time for the comprehensive spending review.
I again congratulate the hon. Member for Portsmouth South on initiating today’s debate. I completely understand why she and her constituents are unhappy with aspects of rail services in Portsmouth and the south-west. Clearly, the Government have much work to do to tackle overcrowding, to stop drastic fare rises, to improve rolling stock, to combat decreasing passenger satisfaction and to deliver planned infrastructure projects. Labour Members want answers from the Minister as to how the Government intend to address those matters. In the Labour party, we believe that there is a better way of running our railways—we put passengers at the centre of the network and learn lessons from successful rail networks in other countries. I look forward to continuing this conversation with all hon. Members in the future.
Claire Perry
Yes, and I will race through my final comments and come on to what I think are some of the solutions. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton pointed out what a balancing act we face, because train usage across the country is rising, and trains that start off empty become crowded. Indeed, I have travelled on some of the top 10 most crowded trains, because I tend to go out and mystery shop them. It is not encouraging to be unable to sit down on the journey into London at 6 o’clock in the morning, work for 12 or 14 hours and then go home. People deserve better.
What are the possible solutions? I will abandon my speech now—when I do so, it always makes my officials incredibly nervous—and talk about what could be done. There is a cascade of things that can be done to increase capacity. We can work on existing lines, and do the sorts of work talked about in the Wessex route Study. Such work is important, and it is being looked at, reviewed and prioritised. We need to ensure that everybody understands the costs and benefits of such work for economic value added, not just for transport users. Such works are always expensive and difficult, because they involve so much disruption.
We can do things such as digital enhancements on the railway. When it comes to the number of train paths, the railways are now full, but if we can use digital technology to reduce the time between trains, we will be able to run more of them. That is a big long-term investment plan for Network Rail. Building new lines is often cheaper than expanding existing lines. We heard a lot of mention of Crossrail 2, a vital project that will help to alleviate congestion—as will Crossrail 1—in the metro and suburban areas.
We can buy new trains. Indeed, many new trains are being delivered to the South West franchise, but what tends to happen is that they are built to satisfy demand at peak times, and they run empty for much of the day. Is that an effective thing to do? Would it be possible to use those trains better? That brings me to the point about part-time season tickets. Providing incentives for people to change their journey patterns and move around outside peak time can be cost-effective and help us to use train capacity better.
Finally, we can, as my hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire mentioned, change stopping patterns. It is completely possible to run a very high speed, non-stop train to Portsmouth if it does not stop anywhere else. As we move forward and consider the consultation, we have to ask ourselves that sort of question. What is the right journey pattern for the demand? Is it right to devolve more services to TfL, to deal with some of the inner-London metro demand and outer-London demand, in order to run services that are better fitted for long-distance users?
What are the right solutions? I do not know, and I do not think that we, individually, know. Part of the problem in the industry is that people work in silos when they make decisions, so there will be an operational solution, a solution for passengers and perhaps a political solution. We need to get the right people in the right place to make those decisions, to make sure that the money is there and that organisations can deliver. That is why the Hendy review is so important. We need to take politics out of the process, which is why I so welcome the appointment of Lord Adonis; I think he is a good man to do the long-term infrastructure planning. We need to work together to solve some of the knotty problems. There is a huge amount of financial commitment to the railways, and we are committing to the biggest investment programme since Victorian times, which is a vital part of delivering economic growth. Collectively as Members, working with our local communities, local businesses, my officials, Network Rail and the operators, we can come up with the right solutions.
What do we need to do? First, we need to keep all the information coming in in response to the route study. That will determine the near-term investment plans, which cover the next five to 10 years. Secondly, the consultation on the franchise process will start before Christmas, and it is absolutely vital that we have a real, in-depth analysis of what we want. Is this the right time to start putting in some express services that do not stop between some of the big conurbations, with a consequent possible loss of services in terms of stopping patterns? Can the network collectively work that out? Following that consultation, the invitation to tender will go out before April 2016, and the franchise will start in 2017.
I do not know what the right solution is, and I do not believe that any individual holds it. Collectively, however, working together across the boundaries that have built up in the railway sector between operators, the network and regulators, we can come up with a better solution. The experience of passengers must be put front and centre, because the railway is not about boxes running about on rails. I was told by somebody who has left the industry that if it were not for the passengers, the timetabling would be perfect. I found that both amusing and incredibly offensive, because it suggested that we were talking about somebody’s train set rather than a transport system that millions of people rely on to get to work and to get back home to their families.
My plea to team Hampshire—I am delighted that it has an identity—and also to team Somerset, team Wiltshire, team Stalybridge and Hyde—
Claire Perry
And to team Isle of Wight. My plea is that I hope that, by working together, we can come up with a better solution. We want to invest in the railways. They are a vital part of delivering local, regional and national economic growth. We are in an exciting place, because we have finally realised the importance of railway investment in delivering the economic growth that we want for our constituents.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South once more. With her eloquent and intelligent speech, she auditioned extremely well for my job. I commend her for securing the debate.
Public Transport (Greater Manchester)
Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts(8 years, 9 months ago)
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Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting me this debate on an issue of vital importance to me and the vast majority of the 2.7 million people who live in Greater Manchester. I was advised as a new MP never to request the last Adjournment debate of the week with a title broader than my constituency. I appreciate that this is the last parliamentary business before the summer recess and have no doubt that you, Mr Speaker, like me, the Minister and other hon. Members present are itching to get out of this place and into a pair of Speedos as soon as possible, so I hope the debate will be an excellent way to start the summer. I thank all colleagues present in the Chamber: my hon. Friends the Members for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) and for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), and on the Government Benches the hon. Members for Bolton West (Chris Green) and for Bury North (Mr Nuttall). [Interruption.] Yes, and the Labour Whip is from London. I also thank the Minister for his attendance and response and Transport for Greater Manchester for its assistance to me in preparing for the debate.
This debate is particularly timely, as devolution to northern cities as part of the Government’s much-vaunted northern powerhouse initiative offers a huge opportunity for improvements in Greater Manchester’s public transport. My aim for this debate is to make my own contribution on what I and my constituents would like to see happen, and to ask the Minister whether he believes the powers to achieve that will be forthcoming.
Greater Manchester needs an improved public transport system, and in particular greater capacity. Improvements have been made in recent years, such as the expansion of our iconic Metrolink system, but more needs to be done to meet the needs of our growing city. We need these improvements to cater for increased demand for leisure travel in a city where the population is expanding, but crucially we need them for the economic benefit that a vastly improved public transport system would bring. If Greater Manchester is truly to thrive, as London has, the movement of a skilled workforce around the conurbation is vital.
I am sure the Minister will agree with that, not least because over a third of jobseekers in Greater Manchester state that lack of transport is one of the top barriers to their attending an interview or getting a job. Furthermore, the expected growth in Greater Manchester jobs is likely to mean at least 30,000 more trips into the city centre at peak times in the near future, while at the same time 31% of households in Greater Manchester have no access to a car.
One of the main points I wish to make in this debate, however, is that it is not just travel into the city centre and back out again that needs to be upgraded, but, fundamentally, travel between the outer parts of Greater Manchester to facilitate the easier movement of people to jobs, and to ensure places like Tameside do not miss out on the benefits of “devo-Manc”. Currently, our public transport system is largely based on getting into and out of the city centre, but I am convinced that we must improve the connectivity between the outer parts of Greater Manchester if we are to unlock its economic potential, and I am absolutely certain that we can do that. In this debate I shall address the issues around rail, rolling stock, Metrolink, buses and car use that I want to see tackled in order to achieve that.
I must start on a negative point, however: the incredibly disappointing news regarding the electrification of the trans-Pennine line that the Government disclosed recently. When the electrification of the trans-Pennine route was first announced back in 2011 I was very pleased and very supportive, not least because it would finally end the problems of under-capacity and unreliable services that my constituents in Stalybridge and Mossley, and those of other Members in the Chamber, were enduring daily. Coupled with the wider Rail North and northern hub work, the benefits would be huge, and I was delighted that my constituents would be able to see the improvement. I was also hoping to see my casework decrease, as poor, overcrowded services from Stalybridge are rightly regularly raised with me as an issue. Yet four years later that optimism and anticipation has all but disappeared thanks to this Government’s handling of rail policy.
I was incredibly disappointed to be told of what the Government describe as an “indefinite pause” of work on the trans-Pennine electrification, a disappointment shared by my constituents and colleagues on both sides of the House. The Manchester Evening News even went so far as to describe this as the “Northern Powercut”, which should give the Minister some sense of the anger rail users in Greater Manchester feel. We are still yet to receive a full explanation of why the work has been delayed, with the Government principally blaming Network Rail. I hope the Minister will shed some more light on this in his reply. The Prime Minister denied in a recent reply to me in this House that this amounted to a cancellation of the work, although announcing a “pause” without setting a date for work to be completed, or even restarted, seems to me to be pretty close to a cancellation. Therefore, I want to press the Minister on whether he can give a cast-iron guarantee before the House today that the electrification work will definitely be completed, even if he cannot give a date for its completion. That would provide some much needed clarity for rail users in Greater Manchester.
One related issue, which deserves specific attention, is that of the poor-quality rolling stock on all lines serving Greater Manchester. The Pacer trains used by Northern Rail are quite frankly not fit for purpose and in desperate need of replacement. If the Minister is not aware of the type of trains I am talking about, their nicknames, which include boneshakers, cattle trucks, bus bodies and pacemaker trains, should give him some idea of the esteem in which they are held by fed-up commuters in Greater Manchester.
The trains were of course intended as a stop-gap solution for rolling stock back in the 1980s, but they are still in use today on major commuter routes in and out of Manchester city centre, screeching round corners and disliked by almost everyone who travels on them. The Prime Minister himself has promised to end their use in the north of England, yet commuters see no progress, so will the Minister in his reply tell the House how he intends to achieve this?
The one bright light at the end of the tunnel, I understand, is that those trains will have to be gone by 2020, as they do not comply with disability discrimination legislation. I appreciate that there are good intentions on the issue, but because of the wider problems in train franchising, stemming from the west coast main line debacle, in my constituency we actually saw the threat of newer trains being removed and transferred to the home counties. The pressure on the remaining fleet of diesel trains has become acute and will only get worse until electrification is completed. We fought off that proposal, but it means that my constituents repeatedly hear negative stories about the trains in our area, and I want to give them some hope for the future.
One area of public transport in Greater Manchester that has expanded successfully is the Metrolink network, and the new lines recently opened to Rochdale, Oldham and Ashton-under-Lyne have been very welcome. It is no coincidence that the number of passenger journeys, which has been increasing year on year, reached 31 million in 2014-15, and Metrolink has become a visible symbol of Manchester.
There are issues that Metrolink does need to address, because customer satisfaction is not as high as it could be, and there have been some teething problems along the new routes. But overall I believe that Metrolink is a hugely important asset, and I would like to see it extended to my own constituency of Stalybridge and Hyde. Extending Metrolink to my constituency could be a radical new phase for the network.
As I previously noted, greater orbital connectivity between areas outside Manchester city centre would be of great benefit to Greater Manchester as a whole. To use the example of my own borough, Tameside has a significant inter-dependence with the neighbouring boroughs of Stockport and Oldham, not least because Stockport has nearly three times as many jobs as Tameside, and many Tameside residents fill those jobs.
Andrew Gwynne
As well as being a Tameside colleague, I am a Stockport Member of Parliament. My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about the need for orbital public transport around Greater Manchester. On existing infrastructure, he will know that there is a very under-used line between Stockport and Stalybridge, which serves Reddish South and Denton stations, with one train a week in one direction only. Is that not precisely the infrastructure that could be utilised to bring about the orbital service to which he refers?
Jonathan Reynolds
It absolutely is. It seems absurd, given the cost of creating new rail capacity, to have a line that is not utilised, when the reason it was not originally closed but turned into what is called a parliamentary service no longer applies, because transport patterns have changed so much. When we consider the bus links between Tameside and Stockport, with less than one bus an hour in some parts of my constituency, it does seem absurd.
In putting forward this case, I want people to recognise the crucial point that, primarily due to the completion of the M60 motorway, people now choose more than ever before to live and work in different parts of Greater Manchester. Our public transport network needs to reflect that change in travel patterns. Many boroughs, including Tameside, are very keen to see an orbital expansion of the Metrolink network to connect key town centres, and to see it extended to Manchester airport, with the huge potential for jobs and growth that could bring. I would love to see Metrolink extended to run from Stockport town centre, through to Denton and Hyde, and then on to Ashton to create a genuine circle line for south and east Manchester.
Metrolink is wholly operated by Transport for Greater Manchester, but central Government have always been instrumental in supporting it, including when it comes to expansion, so I would be interested to know the Minister’s thoughts on whether this Government would support further Metrolink expansion—perhaps using Government funds to match the retained revenue from the increase in business rates that might occur through expansion.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
There will be profound disappointment among my constituents, who have suffered the installation—or part-installation—of the Leigh guided busway, which is a gross mistake. We should have had Metrolink built. Guided busway schemes are expensive, and that one should never have been installed.
Jonathan Reynolds
I know that my hon. Friend feels strongly about that. The expansion of Metrolink could certainly fulfil such a need.
I want to go on to the subject of buses. Journeys by bus within Greater Manchester remain the predominant form of public transport used, with over 210 million journeys last year, but bus patronage continues to flatline, as opposed to what we have seen in London, where it has vastly increased. Transport for Greater Manchester recognises that that is an issue, and the preferred answer seems to be much further transport devolution.
I am very much in favour of bus regulation, similar to that in London. I know that Transport for Greater Manchester, too, is keen to explore the benefits of bus franchising in order to properly integrate and co-ordinate the public transport network so as to secure the growth in bus usage that has been lacking in recent years. A model such as the London one would mean a simpler single identity and a set of easier multi-modal fares and tickets across Greater Manchester as passengers’ travel patterns change. A good recent example of why this is necessary is surely the Healthier Together hospital reorganisation initiative, which shows that there is a crucial need for local transport authorities to be able to plan bus services and not be at the whim of timetables that do not always suit passengers’ requirements. We also need to be able to guarantee transport services in order to better provide other public services.
Of course, the true test of a region’s public transport success is whether it manages to decrease the number of car journeys taken—something that Greater Manchester has not yet achieved. The benefits of this are obvious, not least in terms of emissions and air quality, about which, as the shadow climate change Minister, I care a great deal. We should want people to get out of their cars and on to public transport, both for leisure and for commuting purposes. Greater Manchester did attempt this in a rather crude way with a proposal to bring in a London-style congestion charge back in 2008. The proposal was put to the people of Greater Manchester, and to say that it was overwhelmingly rejected would be an understatement, with 79% of votes cast being against bringing it in. I always smile when we talk about the Scottish independence referendum and it is suggested that it is difficult to make the case for voting no. That was not our experience in Greater Manchester with the congestion charge proposal.
That shows the scale of the challenge faced. One of the reasons why so many people were against bringing in that congestion charge was that they felt that the public transport infrastructure was not adequate for them to feel confident enough to ditch their cars. There is an argument that this was a chicken and egg scenario, and that public transport would be sufficiently improved if the demand existed, but that the demand would never materialise while the public transport infrastructure was not deemed adequate.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
My hon. Friend will be aware that there are difficulties with the capacity and the reach of bus services, and that in recent weeks we have seen the withdrawal of night bus services. Does he agree that our strategy should be a 24-hour transport strategy for a 24-hour city?
Jonathan Reynolds
Absolutely. I look enviously at the night tube proposal for London. In big cities, so much of the offer within the evening economy is attractive, yet for people who live in my constituency, which is a relatively short distance from Manchester city centre, access is severely limited. The trains do not run and night buses are infrequent and under threat, so it is a huge issue.
If the investment is put into the public transport infrastructure, people will be more than willing to use it if it meets their needs. The benefits to the area, to the economy and to people’s health should not be understated. We often hear a great deal about London in terms of health and life expectancy because of the pollution issues, but those problems are seen in Greater Manchester too. Progress has been good, with improvements year on year in the number of non-car journeys, and I know that Transport for Greater Manchester is committed to further improvement. I also believe that there is huge potential in cities for the expansion of electric car use. I recently tested our electric car charging infrastructure in Greater Manchester, but I will leave that for another Adjournment debate.
An improved public transport system in Greater Manchester is vital to the region’s economic growth and to the success of “devo-Manc” and the northern powerhouse initiative, as I am sure the Minister would agree. A fully integrated transport network including all modes of public transport is key to this, and can be achieved only by devolving further powers to the region. In particular, I believe public transport should be one of the directly elected Mayor of Manchester’s key areas of responsibility, much as it is in London.
I hope that in his reply the Minister will be full of warm words for Greater Manchester and for the northern powerhouse, and feel able to express his agreement with a lot of what I have said regarding what Greater Manchester needs. What I want most from him, however, are not just words, but a firm commitment that the Government recognise the need in Greater Manchester, and that powers and access to funding will be forthcoming in order to allow us to fulfil that need. One thing that can always be said of us in Greater Manchester is that if we are given the tools we will always do the job.
Mr Speaker
I assume the hon. Lady has the consent both of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) and of the Minister.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Andrew Jones)
indicated assent.
Andrew Gwynne
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Apart from Denton and Reddish South, which do have rail lines and stations, Leigh is probably the poorest served community by rail in Greater Manchester.
Lastly, I want to mention integration. It is all fine and well having great rail services and Metrolink services; possibly one day even having tram-train services, with trams using some of the under-utilised rail infrastructure across Greater Manchester, thereby reducing the capital investment that new tram lines cost the taxpayer; and having improved bus services when we have a properly franchised, re-regulated system, but none of that is any good to my constituents unless there is joined-up transport planning and integration.
The Chancellor announced in the Budget that the northern powerhouse is to secure an Oyster-style card that may, by the sounds of it, be used across the whole of the Northern franchise. That is an important step forward, although I am not sure that we want to be using state-of-the-art technology on 1980s, clapped-out Pacer trains, so I hope that the Minister will answer the questions from my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton on the timing of the upgrades and the introduction of the new rolling stock in Greater Manchester.
My one desire is that we end up with a transport system like that in London. Ten years ago when I first became a Member of Parliament, I could not believe it when London MPs complained about the state of public transport in the capital city. If I decided to start a journey on one mode of transport in Greater Manchester—tram, for example—and then connect to a train and finish my journey by bus, as someone can in London with an Oyster card where the services join up, people in Greater Manchester would have thought I was bonkers. The services do not join up, and that is the problem. Someone would be left stranded on some station in the middle of the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde, without the opportunity to get a return ticket.
Jonathan Reynolds
My hon. Friend makes a fine point. We have probably all had the experience of standing at Stockport station, perhaps on the way home, and working out that it is quicker to get back to London than to a place such as Stalybridge on public transport. That really illustrates the point.
Andrew Gwynne
My hon. Friend is right. It is frustrating because someone can be so near to home, yet so far when they look at that board at Stockport station and realise that they have to wait for such a long time to get a connecting service to somewhere relatively close.
I know that Ministers are in the process of devolving powers to the mayor and the combined authority, which is right. We believe in devolution, and we know that our elected representatives in Greater Manchester have the capacity to take on those new powers, and to plan and prepare for a better transport system. We also need help and understanding from the Department for Transport, because where the transport system in Greater Manchester is today is not where we wish it to be. To get it to where we want it to be will require not only local leadership, direction and commitment, but also that same level of commitment and resources to flow from central Government.
I urge the Minister to answer the points that my hon. Friends have raised about electrification and orbital transport, and also, please, to give us some hope that this pause will not be for long. We desperately need a better transport system in all parts of Greater Manchester.
Andrew Jones
I agree that friends groups across many parts of the north do a very valuable job and the hon. Lady is right to highlight that. In terms of having a responsive rail service, part of that is having franchises that generate growth. Of course, the previous Northern franchise was a no-growth franchise. Her basic point, however, about listening, communicating with the public and supporting those seeking to drive public transport usage is clearly appropriate.
Let me be absolutely clear: this is a pause, not a stop. Even without electrification, we will see significant improvements to rail in the north. On trans-Pennine services between Leeds and Manchester, there will be better journeys, more modern trains and additional capacity as part of the new franchise. The new franchise arrangements will be awarded later this year, to come in from April next year. To put to one side any concerns hon. Members may have, let me say that the budget for rail enhancements remains intact.
There is one huge rail project that has not yet had a mention in the debate: HS2. I have to mention it, because it will have a significant impact on public transport in Greater Manchester. We are committed to building the full Y network of HS2, including building the line from Birmingham to Crewe earlier. There is more work to be done on further analysis and final decisions on the preferred route. We are also looking at the case for accelerating construction of the Leeds to Sheffield part of the line. HS2 will transform north-south connectivity throughout our country and cut journey times. For example, the journey time between Manchester and Birmingham will be cut to 41 minutes—currently it is one hour and 28 minutes—which is a saving of 47 minutes.
The point, however, is not really about speed, but capacity on the network. We have not built a railway line north of London in our country since the reign of Queen Victoria. Indeed, our railway network is only a fraction of the size it was. The Beeching cuts might have been appropriate at the time—they were before I was even born—but they might not look quite so right now. We have failed to invest historically in our rail infrastructure, and HS2 is a part of correcting that.
Jonathan Reynolds
I am grateful to the Minister for mentioning HS2, of which many in the Chamber are firm supporters in the light of what it will bring to Greater Manchester. I say to him, however, that because a project of that size has a high price tag, it often arouses public cynicism about whether it is worth the money. It would be a grave problem as regards public opinion in Greater Manchester if the work was seen to proceed without trans-Pennine electrification being reinstated and a clear date being set for completion. From representations I have had, I think that could be a significant problem. I wanted to highlight that to him in good faith because I think he will appreciate the point I am making.
Andrew Jones
I do indeed appreciate the points being made—they have been made to me before—but as regards investment in our classic rail network and in HS2, I make the point that it is not one or the other; it is both. Progress on both needs to happen in parallel. I hope that reassures the hon. Gentleman and those who have contacted him.
The huge increase in capacity that HS2 will deliver will transform rail connections around our country, but even that will not be enough. Many rail journeys in the north, particularly east-west journeys, are too slow, too infrequent and suffer from unacceptable overcrowding, which has put people off using our rail network and certainly discourages development of city-to-city connections and business. The Government are determined to improve the situation, and we will do this in partnership with the north.
In the Budget, the Chancellor allocated £30 million to Transport for the North, which will act as a single voice for the whole of the north and work with us to identify the strategic transport investment priorities across the entire region. It is fantastic that we are seeing far more devolution. We should be working on the principle that decisions affecting local services should be taken as near as possible to where those services are delivered, so that they are more tailored to local needs. Incidentally, that devolution in transport is mirrored by other areas of devolution and is very encouraging and long overdue.
I would like to say a little about local transport. Most journeys in Greater Manchester are local and often less than 5 miles. We have invested heavily, alongside Greater Manchester, through our local major scheme budgets—the local sustainable transport fund and the cycle city ambition grant—and most recently with the local growth deals through which more than £500 million has been provided to support local transport investment, including improvements to the Bolton to Manchester bus corridor; enhancements to Salford central station; and new transport interchanges in Ashton and Stockport; plus, of course, the new trams for Metrolink.
Most journeys by public transport in Greater Manchester are by bus. In 2014, out of the 267 million public transport journeys I mentioned earlier, 211 million were on the bus network. Buses are vital. I am a huge champion of them. They are part of the answer to our public transport challenge. As the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde mentioned, unlike with Metrolink and rail, passenger numbers are not growing and, despite significant investment in facilities and vehicles, have continued to decline. Greater Manchester has ambitious plans to arrest this decline, and it is right that areas with ambitious plans to grow and develop should be given the powers they need to promote an integrated transport system.
We signed a groundbreaking devolution deal with Greater Manchester last year in which we committed to providing it with powers to franchise its bus services, and we will legislate to make this deal a reality. The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) asked about the timing. I will have to check with the Leader of the House, but I am expecting a bus Bill to come through the House later this year. Areas such as Greater Manchester that are given the powers to franchise their services will be able to better integrate buses with other public transport modes and plan services to link with new developments or regeneration projects.
Franchising will provide local areas with the opportunity to introduce more Oyster-style smart ticketing—not necessarily the exact same technology—to improve service for passengers. It is a powerful tool for making public transport more attractive by making it more convenient and removing some of the barriers that people encounter in switching from one mode of transport to another. Smart ticketing integrates bus, train and tram journeys, driving convenience. Our aim is for public transport in Greater Manchester and across the north to become more convenient and attractive and for it to build on the enormous growth in demand that we are seeing. We know that a better transport system supports economic growth.
Before I finish, I would like to add that although this debate has focused on public transport, we are by no means neglecting the motorist. We have incredibly ambitious plans for our road network up and down the country. Specifically in Manchester, the M62 will provide a continuous four-lane smart motorway to Leeds. Similarly, the M60 between junctions 8 and 18 is being improved and will become a smart motorway. The south-east quadrant of the M60, between junctions 24 and 4, is also being upgraded.