Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

4. What assessment he has made of the effect on the economy of changes to the working tax credit to be introduced in April 2012.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

6. What assessment he has made of the effect on the economy of changes to the working tax credit to be introduced in April 2012.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Smith]

I cannot comment on that particular set of circumstances, as the hon. Lady will appreciate, but the fact is that about 80% of households with children will see their tax credit awards rise. It was the previous Government who allowed nine out of 10 households with children to be eligible for tax credits. That was unsustainable and uncontrolled spending.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The Minister will remember that in an Adjournment debate last November I warned her about the devastating impact that the cuts would have, particularly because the hours were simply not available for people to increase the number they worked to meet the eligibility criteria. This week, a coalition of charities has written to the Government begging them to postpone these devastating changes. May I ask her and the Chancellor to meet some of the families affected so that they can understand what the impact will be on them from April?

[Miss Smith]

Any elected MP will regularly meet constituents in their constituency and discuss a range of matters. I certainly do that, and when I have met those affected in my constituency—whether as a constituency MP or, most recently, as a Minister—I have explained the fairness of this measure, which is that it puts couples on a par with lone parents. Where is the Opposition’s concern for single mums and dads, who have always had to face that challenge?

Youth Unemployment and Bank Bonuses

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

If the future jobs fund was not a success, why have the Government introduced the youth contract, and is it not simply a watered-down future jobs fund?

[Richard Graham]

Let me be clear that I was not writing off the future jobs fund—I did say that it was useful. However, there are better ways of dealing with these issues, which the Government have identified and are going ahead with.

I was coming to a point that will answer the hon. Gentleman’s query about our alternatives to the hon. Lady’s four main ideas about how the problem of youth unemployment can be solved. I believe that we need a mixture of different things. We need to allow manufacturers to thrive again by reducing corporate tax and the bureaucracy that surrounds their activities. We need to encourage their entrepreneurial spirit. Happily, and by chance, I can show hon. Members an excellent packet of tea that is made in Gloucester and exported to China. I also have in my pocket an aluminium pedal made on the Bristol road in Gloucester and exported to Australia. These examples show that the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking in my constituency and I hope that all Members’ constituencies have similar companies doing great things. Both the companies I have mentioned are looking to take on apprenticeships this year. That speaks to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) about the heavy support and increased numbers of apprenticeships that the Government are delivering.

We also need incentives for small and medium-sized enterprises and I am very grateful that the debate I led in Westminster Hall last year, in which many hon. Members spoke up in favour of SMEs, was heard by the Government, who have introduced those incentives so that SMEs can take on apprentices. If every member of the Federation of Small Businesses in the land took on one apprentice, the largest part of the problem of youth unemployment would be solved. Similarly, we can all lead by example by taking on our own apprentice. I wonder how many Members from the Labour party have taken on an apprentice. We can also encourage businesses in our communities to take on apprentices and we can create apprenticeship fairs and job fairs. I am delighted to be welcoming the employment Minister to the skillsfest in Gloucester on 9 February, when he will see what we are doing to promote all aspects of the Government’s programme and will be quizzed by businesses on what more he can do to help them to grow.

The motion mixes an unacceptable fact—high youth unemployment—with an unpopular sector: banking. It is my strong belief that hammering our financial services sector, which is vital to this country, and destroying jobs in it will not help to create jobs elsewhere, so I propose, as an alternative, an idea that I believe would resonate across the land. It came to me when opening a regenerated bank branch in Gloucester two months ago. It would enable banks to reconnect with their customers and grow cost-efficiently, and it would support our communities by reducing youth unemployment. The idea is simple: every bank in the land should take on one apprentice in each of its branches. That would include the Co-operative Bank, which is shortly, I hope, to take over the Cheltenham & Gloucester branches from Lloyds. If the financial sector pursued that idea, Members in all parts of the House, instead of haranguing bankers, would be able to praise them for their role in solving the problem of youth unemployment. Some talks have already taken place; I hope that there will be more. I commend that policy, rather than the motion before us, to the Minister.

Working Tax Credits

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to have been able to secure a debate on which I have been trying to be successful in the ballot for some time. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Robertson, and to welcome the Minister to her relatively new job. I warmly congratulate her on it. She is surely further proof that all the best parliamentary careers begin in the Whips Office.

I am pleased to see a number of other hon. Members present. Several changes have been announced to working tax credit, not least those yesterday in the autumn statement. I will try to accommodate any colleagues who might wish to highlight their concerns or those of their constituents. For my part, in the time available, I want to discuss the changes to working tax credit that were announced in the spending review in October 2010. Specifically, from April 2012, the total weekly hours that a couple with children need to work in order to qualify for working tax credit will go up from 16 to 24, with one partner needing to work at least 16 hours a week. At present, couples whose annual income is less than about £17,700 a year qualify for tax credit if at least one of the couple works 16 hours a week. I want to talk about what these changes will mean for working families, how many of those families will be affected and what it will mean for couples where one partner has caring responsibilities.

[Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on getting this important debate. We are all sorry that it is not longer.

My hon. Friend might be interested to know that I recently sent out a survey to find out about the child care arrangements of parents in my constituency. Interestingly, a number of grandparents replied; they all made the similar point that, without the free child care that they provided, parents would be facing mounting debts because of the squeeze on their family incomes and long-term financial problems. Does he agree that the Government have not properly thought through the cumulative affect of their policies on families?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I agree with my hon. Friend. If we had had one of the longer slots for debate, perhaps we could have discussed in more detail the interaction between working tax credit, child tax credit and the child care allowance. The interconnection between them is crucial. I shall ask the Minister near the end of the debate what transitional arrangements could be considered for some of those who are most badly affected by the changes.

Working tax credit has played an important part in recent development of the welfare state. When working tax credit was introduced in 2003, it balanced the goal of eradicating child poverty with promoting work. It currently offers around £4,000 for families on lower incomes and aims to ensure that families will always be better off in work. Until it was introduced, too many families had complained that going out to work might leave them less well off financially. Working tax credit was introduced to ensure that work always paid. It did so much more. Encouraging people back into work concerns more than just the contents of their pay packet. Work is about skills.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has done well to secure this debate. He is talking about the difficulties of getting into work. This is particularly true for part-time staff. The change in the threshold from 16 to 24 hours is of great concern to people in my constituency, particularly those in the retail sector, where shifts will not be available because of the dire economic situation we face. Those people are among the 200,000 families who potentially will lose up to £4,000. This measure could force families back on to benefit and out of work. Surely this is not the right way to proceed.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I agree with my hon. Friend. It is specifically the impact on people working in, for instance, the retail sector that has prompted me to apply for this debate. I am sure that my hon. Friend and I agree that we do not want to see anything that makes it potentially less attractive for people to go out to work.

Couples and single parents who currently work for at least 16 hours a week are eligible for working tax credit. According to the Government’s proposals, from April couples will have to work an extra eight hours in order to qualify. Failure to secure additional work will exempt claimants from the credit completely. The reality is that about 280,000 families in receipt of working tax credit currently work less than 24 hours a week. Under the proposals, they could lose up to £4,000 a year.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

This is a very important point. Will my hon. Friend confirm that they will lose not only their working tax credit, as he said, but their child care tax credits if they use child care, as many will? They could lose another couple of thousand pounds there.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Absolutely. They stand to lose even more when child care is taken into consideration. There is an internal tension between the Government’s stated ambition on universal credit and these actions. It would be interesting to hear the Minister’s views on how those two aspects interplay.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

I join the chorus of congratulations extended to my hon. Friend. I hope that he gets time to make some points between interventions.

Does my hon. Friend agree that this represents an incredible retreat from, and abandonment of, the historic pledge by the previous Government to eradicate child poverty within a generation? Will this not have the opposite effect, in terms of the welfare to work agenda—perversely forcing some people to go back on to benefit because of all the losses they will suffer, as hon. Members have said?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Indeed. A family currently on £18,000 a year could lose £4,000, which is a huge loss. It will, as I understand it, push as many as half a million children back below the poverty line.

The Minister may say to me that the simple solution is for claimants to work an additional eight hours. For some people in receipt of working tax credit, the demands of caring, child care or limited health may make it difficult for them to work those additional hours. These changes make no allowance for that.

I was first alerted to the scope of this issue when I was contacted by a resident in my constituency who was hit by a car 11 years ago. He was previously employed as a printer and would routinely work 12-hour shifts a day for his family. He has not been able to work since the accident and needs some degree of care. His wife, as well as caring for her husband and their young daughter, works 17 hours a week in a before and after school club. She cannot increase her hours at the school because the club runs only for those 17 hours a week. With the caring responsibilities for her husband and daughter, she would struggle to find a second job with sufficiently flexible hours. The money they receive though working tax credit makes a real difference. Under the Government’s plan they would lose it.

I acknowledge that, rightly, the Government do not plan to increase the hours of work required by single parents, in recognition of the additional pressures they face. However, they also need to consider the impact that these changes will have on families where one member is disabled, or one member has a caring responsibility, or both. They should urgently consider whether additional exemptions should be applied. Indeed, I put a range of parliamentary questions over the past six months to the Exchequer Secretary, to try to ascertain how many of the 280,000 couples that this will affect have a partner with caring responsibilities or a disability, and to get a more detailed breakdown. However, the Government could not provide much of that information, and what they could provide was extremely limited.

As I have said, the promotion of work is at the heart of the working tax credit scheme. The principle of asking people to take on work to qualify for working tax credits is a positive one. But if the amount of work we require is unrealistic, it will hurt rather than help some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

[Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for securing this debate. I am sure he will be aware of this, but will he comment on the point made by the trade union USDAW that 78% of the couples it has surveyed who work between 16 and 24 hours say that there is no way in which they could increase their working hours, and that the retail sector is particularly squeezed at present, meaning that overtime that may have been guaranteed in the run-up to Christmas in previous years is no longer available ?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Absolutely, and I am very grateful to USDAW for its support in giving me research and case studies relevant to this debate, because these proposed changes will particularly impact on the retail and service sectors, where there is a prevalence of part-time work. They are rightly concerned about the impact it will have on their members. I have seen their tax credits survey, which suggests that 79% of their members who receive working tax credit would not be able to secure additional hours from their employers before next April. Indeed, they have already talked to members who have repeatedly tried to secure extra hours from their employers, but been told that the work is not available. Where additional hours are available they are often late at night or very early in the morning. The lack of public transport means that members cannot take them.

An added complication is that there is often a mismatch in the retail sector between the hours staff are contracted to work and the hours they actually work. In recent years there has been a trend for retailers to cut the hours staff are contracted to work, with an expectation that they will work longer, additional hours at busy periods. That means that under the proposed changes couples actually working more than the 24 hours that makes them eligible for working tax credit might not get it because not all of their hours are contracted.

I put it to the Minister that that would be completely unconscionable, and I respectfully request that she address this point when she responds to me later in the debate.

I do not yet believe that the full impact of these changes has been considered or identified by the Government. The Government claim they are still committed to ending child poverty, but this is a measure that has the potential to push many families well below the poverty line. It is a regressive step that will concern many Members.

I would hope that the withdrawal of working tax credit from those who could not secure additional work would not prompt a return to the old idea that work will not pay. But that is the risk, and that would be the tragedy, not only for the employees concerned but for the parts of industries that rely on a flexible work force willing to work just a few hours a week.

In these tough economic times I would rather that the Government reviewed their plans, but I do not think that they will do that. Instead, may I implore them to do two things? I ask them, first, to exempt couples where one partner is either disabled or a carer from these changes; and, secondly, to increase awareness of the change among employers and employees, to ensure that they have the best chance of working together so that they can fulfil the requirements for eligibility for working tax credit payments. In addition, if these changes are to go ahead, will the Minister consider what help the Government can give to the most badly affected couples in terms of transitional arrangements?

This change will impact on the lives of many thousands of struggling families, many of whom are my constituents, and I am extremely grateful to be able to highlight this matter before the House this afternoon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Smith]

Regrettably, I thought that the right hon. Gentleman wanted to respond to why higher earners would have received tax credits under the previous system, but I will come to his point in the bulk of my comments.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

May I bring the Minister back to the specific move from 16 to 24 hours? The figures I have from the Treasury estimate that this change will save £380 million a year. Yes, that is a substantial sum, but the context is one of a Government now borrowing £158 billion more over this Parliament than they said they would just a year ago. If a family’s income goes from £18,000 a year to £14,000, based on this change, will they not feel some angst at a statement that focuses only on higher earners having their tax credits taken away and the wider economic impact? To go from £18,000 to £14,000 is a very big change for a family in my constituency.

[Miss Smith]

Let me move on to the change that the hon. Gentleman highlighted, which is the move from 16 to 24 hours. As he explained, under the current system couples with children can claim working tax credit if one partner works 16 hours a week. The hon. Gentleman will know that at the moment lone parents must also work at least 16 hours to qualify for the working tax credit. As he said, however, under the 2010 spending review, from April next year couples with children will have to work 24 hours between them, with at least one partner working 16. In response to the interventions made, this change makes the system fairer by reducing that disparity between couples and lone parents. I would not like to stand here to defend why those two groups should be treated differently. I can see the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde twitching but I must move on in order to tackle two of the points he specifically asked me to address.

There are exemptions where couples may have a limited capability to work. That means that couples with children will continue to qualify for working tax credit where one member works at least 16 hours a week and that person is eligible for the working tax credit disability element. In addition, there will be an exemption for some couples with children where only one member works at least 16 hours a week and the other adult does not work, for example where one adult is incapacitated. A couple with children will continue to qualify for working tax credit at 16 hours if one partner is in receipt of disability living allowance.

Moving on to how else we can increase support for lower and middle income earners and improve the rewards to work. On work incentives, which I said I would cover, universal credit has already been mentioned and it is in that area—

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Smith]

We need to move in one direction in this economy, which is to tackle the deficit. I made that point very strongly up front. We must also look to major reforms such as the universal credit, and perhaps before that the Work programme in some cases. There are a number of examples that I look forward to the Government delivering. I have given some; let me give some more that will also answer the points made about what people might get in return.

The Government are investing a further £380 million by 2014-15 to extend the offer of 15 hours of free education and care a week for disadvantaged two-year-olds, which will cover an extra 130,000 children. That is only one element of what the Government will do to help working families. Support has been focused on those on out-of-work benefits—this is a key point that I have no doubt the right hon. Member for East Ham will appreciate. They need greater protection against rising prices than people on working tax credit who are, of course, not solely reliant on this income; they also have income from work, which is key. I do, though, take the points made regarding the difficulty of getting a job in the palm of one’s hand before asking for it.

The Government, however, remains committed to making work pay. As the Chancellor made clear yesterday, the best way to help working people is by taking them out of tax altogether. In April 2012 we will make a £630 increase in the income tax personal allowance, taking it to £8,105. This is in addition to the £1,000 increase in April this year. Together, these increases will benefit 25 million individuals and take 1.1 million low-income individuals out of tax from April 2012.

As I started to articulate, there is then the reform to which I look forward. Universal credit will unify the complex current system of means-tested out-of-work benefits, tax credits and support for housing into one single payment. The award will be withdrawn at a single rate, with the aim of offering a smooth transition into work and encouraging progression into work.

For parents currently on working tax credit, and in the future, the Government continue to provide support for 70% of child care costs—I am conscious that hon. Members have mentioned child care today. That goes up to a weekly limit of £175 for families with one child and £300 for two or more children. Under the universal credit this support will be extended to those working fewer than 16 hours, which will allow 80,000 additional families to receive help with child care costs. That will give second earners and lone parents, typically women, a stronger incentive to work, and I am proud of all those measures.

I shall deal briefly with child poverty and the way in which the Government see it before concluding. Poverty is about more than income; it is about a lack of opportunity, aspiration and stability. We are keen to tackle its root causes, and ensure that children born in low-income families realise their full potential. I have suggested measures that will help, both in the short and long term, but policy in this area has been distorted by a preoccupation with counting the number of children below a certain line, rather than moving families over a real line, as opposed to an imaginary one.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Surely, that is the purpose of working tax credits. As has been said, with universal credit, the Government are going in the opposite direction from the policy that the Minister is pursuing; it disincentives people who wish to go out to work, which goes against what she said about the wider impact and causes of poverty. Incentivising people to go into the workplace is the best solution, but this policy moves in completely the opposite direction.

[Miss Smith]

Indeed, we need to incentivise people to go into the workplace. However, we have less money than we thought, and we have less money than any previous Government cared to highlight. We have to prioritise who we spend that money on. I would rather give it to people who have no other source of work—in other words, those on out-of-work benefits, rather than those on in-work benefits. That is a sensible principle.

To conclude, the Government have had to take urgent action to tackle what is unsustainable in broader economic terms as well as an unsustainable Welfare Reform Bill. Spending on tax credits has increased from £18 billion in 2003-04 to an estimated £30 billion last year, which is unsustainable and unfair, given the examples that I have mentioned. If we look at the cumulative impact on households of tax, tax credits and benefit reforms introduced both yesterday and before, the top income decile sees the largest reduction in income, both in cash terms and as a percentage of net income. I will take no lectures from the Opposition on believing in more spending, more borrowing and more debt, spent unsustainably and spent unfairly across the income range. I do not think that any working household will thank them for that.

Northern Rock

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Like my fellow Co-operative party MPs, I strongly wanted to see a mutual solution for Northern Rock. The Government’s reasons for not going down that route seem to change every time the issue comes before the House. The Government were happy to sell at a discount and use vendor financing, but are not those the very reasons why the Government used to say they could not proceed with remutualisation? Further to that, the Minister’s statement that “no mutual came forward with a bid” suggests that he does not really understand the issue at all. Surely the point of a mutual is that the members themselves would buy it out and become the owners.

[Mr Hoban]

I question whether the hon. Gentleman himself understands mutuals. There are situations where mutuals come forward and make bids. We have seen the consolidation of the mutual sector in recent years as a consequence of the financial crisis, so there are different ways in which a mutual option could arise. Let me reassure the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends. We looked closely at the mutualisation option, and we were open in reaching out to Mutuo, Adrian Coles, the Building Societies Association and Jonathan Michie to encourage them to come forward with a workable solution for how Northern Rock could be remutualised. No one came forward with such a solution. That is why this deal is the best one for the taxpayer.

Global Economy

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is right. What we are able to provide in the Government debt market is the stability that is sadly lacking in other Government debt markets. All of us now need to rise to the challenge of removing the obstacles to growth; that will mean confronting some vested interests, pressure groups and, dare I say it, even, potentially, trade unions, but it is absolutely essential that this country wakes up to the competitive pressures of the modern world—the competitive pressures that countries such as China and Brazil present to us—and gets the private sector growing in a way that will create the sustainable jobs that were so lacking in the past 10 years.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Last year, Government borrowing came in some £20 billion lower than was anticipated; this year, we learn that it will be some £46 billion higher than was forecast. Can the Chancellor give us an explanation?

[Mr Osborne]

As I have already explained, we have an independent Office for Budget Responsibility—[Interruption.] I am pretty tempted to say that the answer is that the previous Chancellor did not want to have to downgrade his borrowing forecast four weeks before the general election, so he kitchen-sinked the borrowing forecast a year before, to make sure that he was able to show a reduction just before the general election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Justine Greening]

I do not accept the premise of the hon. Gentleman’s question at all. As ever, what we have heard from the Opposition is a cheap political point-scoring jibe. They might be better advised to come up with an alternative plan for tackling the fiscal deficit. The hon. Gentleman had nothing to say to my response to him, which implied that it is the most well-off households in the country that are bearing the brunt of the fiscal consolidation.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

A year ago, when the Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis found that the Budget was a regressive one, the Treasury objected to that analysis on the basis that the IFS had not properly considered the incentives to economic growth that the Budget contained, but given that growth is now flatlining and seems to be frequently downgraded, is the Treasury willing to accept that the IFS analysis last year was entirely correct?

[Justine Greening]

The IFS analysis was very clear-cut that it was indeed the most well-off people in our country who were bearing the brunt of the fiscal consolidation measures. I draw the House’s attention to the need to look at the overall impact of not just the Budget 2010, but the spending review and the Budget this year. They show that the most well-off people in our country are bearing the brunt of the fiscal consolidation, whether that is measured in terms of their income or of their expenditure.

Regulatory and Banking Reform

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about diversity in the financial system. One of the points that the Governor of the Bank of England made in his Mansion House speech last night was about the need to reduce the barriers of entry to the banking system in order to encourage more competitors to come forward. That is an excellent way in which we can promote choice and competition and get a better outcome for consumers, whether individuals or businesses.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

I, like many hon. Friends, believe the Government’s decision to proceed so quickly with a sale process for Northern Rock shows that they are willing to miss a golden opportunity to learn the lessons of the financial crisis and diversify the UK banking sector. On remutualisation, will the Minister undertake to release all the advice he has received, information on all the meetings he has been to and all the rest of the paperwork, so that we can decide—Co-operative MPs such as myself, and other Members—whether remutualisation has been taken as seriously as it should have been?

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I reiterate what I said before. Yes, Northern Rock has been put up for sale. The purchaser could be a proprietary company or another mutual. An acquisition by another mutual could actually help strengthen the mutual sector. I have made it clear that as the sale process proceeds, we will compare the outcome with either an initial public offering or a stand-alone remutualisation. The challenge that those supporting a stand-alone remutualisation need to address is how we ensure that the taxpayer gets value for money from that.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Jonathan Reynolds Excerpts

Thursday 24th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

I pay tribute to those hon. Members who have made their maiden speeches today. My hon. Friends the Members for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), for Hendon (Mr Offord) and for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), and the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), all made excellent maiden speeches.

After 13 years of Budgets that were predicated on the mistaken notion that boom and bust had ended, it is hugely reassuring to see a Budget that restores some fiscal sanity. This Budget puts at the heart of our economic policy the restoration of our nation’s finances and the laying of foundations for stronger economic growth. In response to the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), however, I must add that we do not know what the previous Government’s legacy is, because some costs of the past two or three years’ actions have yet to be borne—but will be unless this Government take preventive steps.

I shall not dwell on what has been bequeathed to us, but I must mention a few statistics that speak for themselves. The budget deficit is more than 11% of GDP, and the largest of all advanced nations; the visible national debt is 68% of GDP; and a record 28% of the adult working population—8 million people—are currently described as “economically inactive”. Despite all Labour’s efforts, no amount of spin can hide the truth of the abysmal inheritance that we have been given. Once again, it has been left to a Conservative-led Administration to clean up the mess of a former Labour Administration. As it says in the Budget, we have to start doing that by addressing this record peace-time deficit.

I am somewhat surprised that Labour Members continue to act as though we can keep living beyond our means, when only £3 in every £4 of Government spending is raised through general taxation. Only eight weeks or so ago, even the Labour leadership admitted during the election campaign that if they won the election they would have to carry out severe cuts as well. There were various estimates, but they averaged about 20% of real cuts in unprotected Departments over the course of the next Parliament. Notably, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer said in an interview that if he were re-elected he would have to make bigger and deeper cuts than Margaret Thatcher did in her time. Now, however, Labour Members act as though those cuts are not necessary and we are able to make a choice.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is not the reduction of the deficit that is the point of conflict between us but the scale and the speed of doing it. Doing it in the way that has been proposed risks pushing the economy back away from growth and into recession. In that situation, the deficit will increase, not decrease. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that point?

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman’s own party said before the election that it expected to make very large, severe cuts, in the order of about 20% in real terms. Our Budget proposes cuts of about 25% in real terms in unprotected Departments. Is he really saying that the only thing bothering him is a difference of 5%? I have not heard anything from Labour Members in the past two or three days that remotely suggests how they would achieve the 20% cut that they have talked about.

James Carville, who was President Clinton’s political adviser, once famously said:

“I used to think if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the President or the Pope or a .400 baseball hitter. But now I want to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everyone.”

Soon after that, President Clinton abandoned his plans to increase borrowing, recognising instead that, even at that time, he had no choice but to balance the budget. I have traded in the international bond markets for many years, and working on a trading floor I saw for myself just how severe the financial crisis was. There is no question but that we would have faced economic problems regardless of the actions that were taken by the previous Government, but their actions made things worse, and that is the key. The situation has been made worse by the huge amount of borrowing that we have taken on since that time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins]

Please accept my apologies, Mr Deputy Speaker. I shall make sure that I address you and hon. Members correctly in future.

It is right to talk about the choice that Labour made, which was to protect the jobs that people relied on and to prevent an extra 500,000 going on the dole. Labour’s choice was to protect the homes that people had saved up over their whole lives to be able to buy. Labour’s choice was to support industry and bring forward public spending projects to keep the construction industry working when the private sector was sitting on its hands. Labour knew that the price of salvaging those jobs, those homes and those businesses would be an increase in our deficit. We delivered a plan for the recovery, which is working, and a plan for reducing the deficit after the recovery had been secured in the following year. The hon. Member for Bromsgrove told us that we could not keep living beyond our means, but of course we already knew that; that is exactly what the shadow Chancellor was referring to in the previously attributed quote. He made it absolutely clear what our strategy was.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is something deeply disingenuous about the fact that the Conservative party supported our Government spending plans until 2008—before the economic crisis hit home? They believe that we are living beyond our means, but they supported our spending at the time.