Neurodivergent People: Employment

Julie Minns Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Westminster Hall

[Charlotte Cane]

I will make some progress.

Think of the challenges that neurodivergent people can face in everyday life: knowing they are different from others; being unable to read social situations in the same way as others; being uncomfortable travelling on public transport; and, commonly, experiencing anxiety after years of bullying at school. Now imagine what it is like to face what must sometimes feel like insurmountable barriers to one of the most basic parts of everyday life—that is, work.

We know that neurodivergent people want to work. They want to contribute in a positive and meaningful way to our society. In 2021, the National Autistic Society found that 77% of unemployed autistic people wanted to work. Despite that, as we have heard, businesses remain concerned about employing neurodivergent people, often because they fear that they cannot support the employee properly.

Recently, the Recruitment and Employment Confederation told me that neurodivergence is the least understood aspect of equality, diversity and inclusion. As such, learning how recruitment practices and the workplace can be adapted to become more inclusive for neurodivergent individuals is an evolving aspect of good practice. I am really proud today to have the opportunity to celebrate businesses in my constituency that lead the way in supporting people into work. They are shining examples that the Government would do well to learn from. We have already heard about some other examples.

Burwell Print provides experience to adults with additional needs and has done so for over three decades. It prints, folds and collates many of our excellent village magazines, keeping the community in touch with what is going on. It also makes soap and small ceramic gifts. Harry Specters is a luxury chocolate company founded by Mona Shah. She recently received an MBE for her services to training and employment for young people with autism. In 2012, Mona was inspired to launch the business by her autistic son, Ash, and they are proud to have autistic staff involved in every aspect of the business.

We have heard how important school is, and I also have many brilliant specialist schools across my constituency, such as the Highfields academies in Ely and Littleport and the Centre school in Cottenham, where I recently talked to some very confident students about their career ambitions. The nurture and support provided by those schools equips students with the social and intellectual skills to contribute to society.

The businesses I have met have told me of success stories where employees that they have taken on have gone on to thrive in the workplace as a result of someone supporting them. Prospects Trust is a working farm that supports people with additional needs, and it runs Unwrapped, an organic café and shop in Ely. The café has up to four supported co-workers per day, Monday to Saturday, giving people employment, skills and the experience they need to go on and make a successful career. So far, five of its co-workers have gone on to secure employment positions after their placement.

At Harry Specters, one staff member faced difficult circumstances. They struggled in traditional workplace environments, suffered long-term bullying and had retreated into self-employment as a safe space, but that was not sustainable and they were stuck in an abusive, financially dependent relationship. Mona hired them, and they have thrived ever since. They have built the confidence to speak on radio and podcasts and at hosted events. They have moved into their own flat and built an independent, stable life. I want stories like that to become the norm, not the exception.

Unfortunately, businesses are hindered by ongoing problems blighting the Access to Work scheme. I am sure that colleagues will also have heard from constituents about difficulties in accessing payments and reduction in support.

[Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for agreeing to take an intervention when I spoke with her before the debate. She speaks very eloquently about the frustrations that we see in our constituency surgeries. I had a constituent’s mother come to see me; it had taken six months for Access to Work to be put in place for him to take up a position that he had been offered. Does the hon. Member agree that the new Connect to Work scheme needs to work a lot better for these people than Access to Work has?

[Charlotte Cane]

Absolutely. It needs to be much faster in doing the assessments and delivering the payments.

One of Mona’s staff experienced a traumatic event that made it difficult to manage work without more regular therapy, so they applied to Access to Work. They were told that they could not be supported because they were already accessing one monthly therapy session, albeit they are paying for that privately and they cannot afford to pay for any more. They face the prospect of having to cancel their vital therapy to apply on the basis that they might get help, and in their own words:

“The message seem to be stop getting the help you need, wait months for a decision, and then maybe we’ll support you.”

Another local business, Red2Green, said the payments are so slow that it is difficult for small organisations to claim the money back, and it gives them huge cashflow problems. I have talked to individuals who have withdrawn from doing this work because they cannot afford to wait over three months before they get paid. Red2Green also told me that some neurodivergent people cannot make phone calls or advocate for themselves, but under the Access to Work scheme, it has to be them who applies, not the employer.

British Sign Language Week

Julie Minns Excerpts

Thursday 20th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on bringing this important debate to Westminster Hall. I will attempt to say [In British Sign Language: Good afternoon] to the members of the public and members of the deaf community who have joined us today.

For more than 150,000 people in the UK, BSL is their first or preferred language. That is 150,000 people who cannot routinely follow debates in this Chamber; 150,000 people who may be unable to read information about how to travel to Westminster or, indeed, anywhere across the UK; and 150,000 people—approximately one in 450 people—whose language has been and continues to be misunderstood and whose communication preferences often go unmet. Their language is misunderstood because BSL, as we have already heard this afternoon, is not a translation of English. Many people do not realise that, but it means that too often service providers believe that they have met the needs of BSL users because they provide webchat or email access to customer services, not understanding that many BSL users may not read English.

The lack of understanding was brought home to me all too clearly a few years ago when I was working for an electricity distribution network. Following engagement with our deaf customers, I recommended that the network introduce video relay access to its customer services. That recommendation was initially met with bewilderment, as customer services had only recently introduced webchat and the view was that the needs of deaf customers were therefore met. After several discussions explaining and re-explaining that BSL is not a translation of English, video relay was introduced to those customer services.

Although a growing number of organisations now provide video relay access to their customer services, many do not. I did a quick check ahead of today’s debate and confirmed that although my constituents in Carlisle and north Cumbria can access their water company by video relay, they cannot access their gas and electricity networks. Considering how vital those utilities are, we need to do more; I will certainly be writing to my local electricity and gas distribution networks after today to urge them to introduce video relay.

British Sign Language is a beautiful language, but its users can face less than beautiful consequences from using it. BSL users can face social exclusion as a direct result of linguistic exclusion. That can negatively affect their employment, education, access to healthcare, and navigation of the justice system and victim support. The concerns that we all have about our public services become doubly concerning when people cannot routinely access information about those services.

That is why the 2022 Act introduced by the former Member for West Lancashire—we have already spoken about it this afternoon—was a major step forward. The requirement to produce a report every three years on the use of BSL by Departments is key to ensuring that Government communications are as inclusive and accessible as possible. I welcome the Labour Government’s commitment to continuing to improve the accessibility of Government communications to the deaf community and BSL users.

In conclusion, I want to share with hon. Members that earlier this week, my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) and I took part in an introductory BSL training session specifically for MPs. I urge all colleagues to look out for it if it is offered again.

[Alison Hume]

My big takeaway from the training session that was provided here was that the language is a visual language. Does my hon. Friend agree that we are therefore excluding many of our constituents without realising?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Minns]

I absolutely agree; all of us in this House have some way to go to improve access for BSL users. It is just over a year since the House introduced British Sign Language coverage for questions and statements. That was clearly welcome, but it means that on any given day, over 50% of business in the main Chamber remains unsigned. I therefore hope that today’s debate prompts a further improvement on the signing of the business of this place.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I call Perran Moon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond, on behalf of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition. I thank the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this important and timely debate during Sign Language Week. It was great to hear that the all-party group has been re-formed and to hear of her pride in that. It is wonderful to see signing in the Chamber today. We have had some important, thoughtful and very hard-practised contributions from hon. Members. These general debates often bring a new perspective in the very best traditions of this House. We have seen that once again this afternoon.

Claire, from my team, is a signer. I really value her contribution and commitment across my constituency in East Grinstead, Uckfield and the villages. She works to make sure that I connect with local young people and users of BSL. She has taught me a little bit, but I must say that I have failed miserably to keep up with it. Robin also taught me some—I am very proudly wearing my badge from my time working with Robin when I was in the DWP. I am not sure whether the Minister will have much time to learn BSL—I wish that I had had time to learn more of it—but I wish him well on that. My time with Robin was very much worth it.

As a former Minister in the DWP, I was pleased to work on the efforts to improve BSL across Government. We made some excellent progress. The Conservatives’ legacy is of working on legislative change and implementing Rosie Cooper’s amazing work on the British Sign Language Act 2022, which was ably supported by my colleague Chloe Smith, who has not left the field when it comes to working on this. Recognising BSL as an official language and rightly improving the reporting duties was leadership from the top of Government on improving BSL in official communications.

Of course, as with everything, there is always more to do. The first report required under the Act was published in July 2023. Although the Act requires a report to be published triennially, we wanted to go further to embed the sea change that we have talked about this afternoon into Government communications, and committed to report annually in the first five years. I am sure that the Minister will reassure the House that his Government will match our commitment and, hopefully, follow suit. In my time at the DWP, BSL and accessibility for all was at the heart of our engagements. I am sure that no campaigner would leave the Minister’s or my office without rightly reminding us not to forget that. We are also rightly proud of the BSL Advisory Board.

[Ms Minns]

In a rare moment of cross-party agreement, I think the work done on the implementation of the ’22 Act was very welcome. It is also worth noting the Media Act 2024, which extended the quota requirement on BSL programming to on-demand services. That quota is only 5%. Does the hon. Lady wish to comment on whether that quota is sufficiently ambitious?

[Mims Davies]

As we have heard today, BSL availability for users, through both captions on TV and signing in person, is too low. As the hon. Member for Watford (Matt Turmaine) spelled out, it would be hard for any of us to say that 5% is enough. We should challenge ourselves on that.

BSL was first recognised as a separate language in March 2003 and has about 150,000 regular users. However, one can find it in early documentation from 1576 in the registry offices of St Martin’s church in Leicester, where a marriage ceremony apparently took place between Thomas and Ursula that showed that love is blind, and can also be deaf. It is wonderful to hear how that passage of love played out. I enjoyed finding that out from one of my colleagues.

It was 50 years ago that British Sign Language was officially introduced with formal recognition. As we have found out this afternoon, there is still a lot to do to embed it into our school system. It is wonderful to have younger BSL users in the Public Gallery today. As many hon. Members have said today, we should note the need for loved ones and carers to get the right advice, as adults caring for little ones, about when deafness touches the lives of a family, and then look at how we can embed it as a route around accessibility.

I was struck by what my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers) said about means of communication, and how the MeSign team helps to tackle isolation. He said that provision of BSL in Government services was woeful and that more was needed. There is a loss of independence, particularly in NHS and health services, if BSL is not there.

I also want to touch on the points made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon); I think it was the first time he has spoken quite so slowly. As usual, he got all his points in and raised the things in his community that make such a difference. When it comes to BSL services in healthcare, the NHS 111 BSL service, across the board, is just not enough. He highlighted some progress, yet also some areas where we are left wanting. That applies to mental health support as well. I talked about isolation earlier on, and I think we can very much improve on that issue.

I turn to some of the questions this afternoon. The most recent report, in December 2024, found important progress in Government communications at the Home Office, the Cabinet Office and the DWP. As I said, there is a legacy there, but there is still more work to do. We have heard this afternoon about the changes in Wales; unfortunately, the work across the Senedd has not been enough when it comes to BSL access in Wales. We also heard about the scrapping of the BSL GCSE in Wales in October 2024. The British Deaf Association’s Cymru manager called that

“a slap in the face”.

We have heard today about the real, tangible opportunity for young people if the BSL GCSE were ready for 2025 in England. It is hugely disappointing that a plan of how to deliver that has not been set out. I hope that, on behalf of his Government, the Minister can commit to straining every sinew to see whether that GCSE can be taught in classrooms for pupils and adult learners alike. In fact, in my previous roles, I met many young people who wanted to learn it as a language—something that the hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman) also pointed out today.

I think I need to conclude, Sir Desmond. [Interruption.] Oh, I do not need to. Well, in that case, I have a couple more points to make. Gosh—how exciting! I turn to BSL accessibility in Government communications and the disability action plan. As the Minister will know, in February 2024, when a Minister in his Department, I took forward a commitment to 32 actions to make the UK more accessible for disabled people to work, live, and—importantly—thrive in. What has happened to the update on that, and what can we expect? As we have heard today, the actions, outcomes and needs of our young people, disabled people and users of BSL have not changed. What is his commitment to the issue in the Department, following the legislative changes that came through in the British Sign Language Act 2022?

We have had absolutely the right conversation this afternoon, and I look forward to the issue being discussed in the main Chamber of the House of Commons next year. I congratulate the hon. Member for Thurrock on bringing forward this debate. As has been highlighted, the interest in BSL, and the need for BSL interpreters, has never been higher. I urge the Minister to outline the steps that the Government will take across all Departments, using his leverage through the equalities role, to increase the communications across the board, particularly in times of national need and national urgency. I was very close to making further announcements about that when I was at the Department.

I hope we have come a long way since 1576 and the act of love that I talked about earlier. Clearly, there is much more to be done in this arena to help people to thrive, move into employment and, above all, feel part of the whole of wider society, with full accessibility for all. I thank everyone for joining us here this afternoon.