Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill [Lords]

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Prentis]

I understand that the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) does not intend to press new clause 1, yet it raises the significant issue of renewing the policy, so I will address it.

The Government introduced this Bill following extensive engagement with clinicians, patient groups and others on the support provided to those whose life is coming to an end. As the Committee knows, this engagement began in 2019. The Bill’s change to extend eligibility under the special rules from six months to 12 months was strongly supported during the evaluation. There was significant support from clinicians for a 12-month approach because they feel it is important to align the definition of “end of life” in the benefits system with the definition used in the NHS.

The DWP has engaged extensively with the devolved Administrations on the changes proposed in this Bill. In particular, the Department is in close contact with the Scottish Government to ensure that Scottish people who are nearing the end of their life and looking to access benefits through the special rules are supported by the DWP for reserved benefits, and by the Scottish Government as they continue to roll out their replacement disability benefits. I do not know whether the hon. Member for Glasgow North was here to hear the Secretary of State’s answer on the Department’s engagement with the Scottish Government. As a very new Minister, it is probably better that I defer to her experience of this matter. I very much agree with what she said a little earlier.

The Department also worked closely with the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland during the evaluation to ensure that the experience of people nearing the end of their lives in Northern Ireland was properly captured. The Department for Communities has already implemented the 12-month change, and both Departments continue to work together to ensure that the principle of parity is maintained across both social security systems.

We anticipate that the changes made by this Bill, which will provide thousands more people with vital financial support, will help improve the quality of the very precious time at the end of life. The changes will mean that people in that situation, and by extension their families and carers, can worry a little less about money. In order to help raise awareness of these changes and encourage take-up, we will continue to engage widely. We hope that wider groups—clinical groups and charities—can help us to communicate to those who meet the new definition to make a claim under the special rules. We will monitor the effect of these changes carefully, and we will use our existing network and do some more proactive engagement, too. We will watch with interest as the different approach taken by the Scottish Government is fully rolled out, and I am very committed, as is my Secretary of State, to maintaining strong links with the Scottish Government.

[Justin Tomlinson]

Will the Minister also formally write to her Scottish counterparts and mirror the request, asking that they formally review their efforts and consider the weight of evidence that supports our changes to seek parity?

[Victoria Prentis]

That sounds like a very sensible suggestion from the former Minister, and if I am charged with this policy area when departmental briefs are fully worked out, I will ensure that I keep up a close dialogue with the Scottish Government on how the two systems are working, both separately and together.

We will also continue to work with the Department of Health and Social Care to assess the impact of these changes on the end of life care provided by the health and social care system as a whole. If at any time a more comprehensive evaluation of the policy is required, we will, of course, commission one, as we did in 2019. The Government want to do all they can to alleviate the pressures on those nearing the end of their lives, and on their families. Our priority is providing people with financial support quickly and compassionately. We are determined to ensure that people have certainty about when they can expect to receive their state pension and that the state pension system is fair to future generations. I hope that this answer has helped to address some of the questions that the hon. Member for Glasgow North may have had, and I understand that he does not intend to press his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Patrick Grady]

As others have said, there is a consensus across the House and I do not intend to do anything to disrupt that with new clause 1. It is probing by nature and the probing has taken place, because the Minister has responded in quite some detail, for which I am grateful, on some of what it was trying to achieve. It is worth spelling that out for the record, even if the exchange is a bit back to front as a result.

We heard on Second Reading that even with the Bill, thousands of households will continue to experience poverty as a result of a terminal illness diagnosis. The Government should therefore be prepared to keep the impact of the changes under review, which is what new clause 1 would require. In doing so, they should look at practice elsewhere, which would obviously include the devolved Administrations. That is why that specific requirement is in the new clause. The Scottish Government have decided to take a different approach—a distinct human rights-based approach—to social security. In this specific context, there is the deliberate lack of a time limit on the definition of terminal illness, and the qualification for payments is determined by a clinician, rather than by Government bureaucracy.

[Justin Tomlinson]

To be crystal clear, both systems have a clinical professional making the decision—there is no difference. Furthermore, there is no additional money in either our system or Scotland’s system. It is just about how quickly a person can access the fast-track service.

[Patrick Grady]

That is quite helpful. In the spirit of consensus, I think I would say that this is not job done. That is what I was trying to achieve with my amendment. The passing of the Bill is not where the Government tick a box and everyone pats themselves on the back and goes away. We will have to keep the impact of this under review. Yes, people both north and south of the border will have to look at how things are panning out and come back to it. That is the point that we are trying to make. The amendment provided the opportunity for that point to be made on Second Reading.

Subsections 4 and 5 urge us to consider what wider support might be available, even once people are able to access the additional benefits available through the Bill. That is why Marie Curie and others are calling for the state pension to be paid to anyone who is dying of a terminal illness regardless of their age. Working age social security payments, such as universal credit and employment and support allowance, are just that—they are security payments for when work is not possible or available for whatever reason. A pension is a contributory system. It is a contract. It has been paid into, at least in theory—that might not be how the state pension works in practice, but that is the theory behind it. Many private pensions will pay out, or have the option to be paid out, when a terminal diagnosis has been made, so allowing the same access to the state pension would be a further significant step forward in ensuring that people of working age who are terminally ill can spend their remaining time with some certainty and comfort.

The Government must agree that, in the 21st century in the UK, nobody should have to die in poverty. That is why this is a probing amendment. I am grateful for the pre-emptive response from the Minister and that she has taken this in the spirit in which it has been tabled. I hope that she will confirm that the impact of the Bill will be kept under review, that the Department will work with and learn from the experience of Scotland and elsewhere, and that, when and if more support is required for people, such as access to the state pension, it will be provided.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1, accordingly, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2

Extent, commencement and short title

Government amendment made: 1, page 2, line 1, leave out subsection (6).

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair.

Bill, as amended, reported.

Bill, as amended in the Committee, considered.

Third Reading

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Tomlinson]

To seek to take advantage of the consensus, as part of the review I appeal to the Minister that, as set out in the Green Paper, the next stage is to extend and review the severe conditions criteria, so that those who sadly have terminal degenerative conditions, but would not necessarily be at that 12-month point, find a much simpler and swifter process to enter in to the various elements of support. That would both be good for the claimant and relieve pressure on a system that has a huge amount of demand on it, which would then speed up the process for others so that it could be faster than the current 16 weeks.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

House of Commons Commission

Ordered,

That Deidre Brock be appointed to the House of Commons Commission in place of Pete Wishart in pursuance of section 1(2)(d) of the House of Commons (Administration) Act 1978, as amended. —(Mr Peter Bone.)

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am just prevaricating for a moment. A point of order would be very helpful.