High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill: Select Committee

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 29th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I agree, and I very much appreciate what the right hon. Lady said in her speech.

There are measures to deal with environmental damage. I mentioned floating slab track to deal with vibration, but there are also noise barriers disguised by foliage and tunnelling where necessary. All sorts of things can be done: they cost a bit extra, but they make the project much more acceptable. Getting the line right in the first instance is absolutely fundamental, and many of my good friends tell me that the line is not right, especially north of Birmingham, but also between London and Birmingham. All sorts of details need to be argued, which will take the Committee a long time. HS2 is a much bigger project than Crossrail, and the Crossrail Bill Committee took two years. We met every week, and there were lots and lots of petitions. There will be many more for HS2, so we are looking at a big job.

The right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) mentioned speed, and recently there was talk about reducing the maximum speed from 250 mph to 183 mph—or 300 kph—and going at the speed of HS1. It was an arbitrary decision—“Oh well, let’s just reduce the speed”—which changes a lot of suggested journey times. I have spoken in the House about journey times, and criticised the project in that regard, as it seems that someone can just make a quick decision—“Oh well, we won’t go there. We’ll decide to change the speed.” There is a problem with high-speed trains, which cannot go round tight curves as they would fall off the track. Curves have to be gradual and of a large radius, which causes all sorts of problems. That does not apply to trains on standard rail, with a speed of up to 125 mph or 135 mph.

Raising the speed from 300 kph to 250 mph demands a tremendous increase in energy. Energy costs are much greater at higher speed, and extra emissions from power stations required to drive electric trains are disproportionately increased. Optimum railway speeds are much lower—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Quite a few more Members want to speak and I do not want to allow the hon. Gentleman’s speech to turn into a Second Reading speech. I would have thought that the motions are more important at this stage.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I shall conclude in a moment as I have basically made my points.

I would be happy to support all the amendments of the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham were they ever put to a vote, but I hope that the Government will take them into account. I am also in favour of the amendment of my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North, who is not her place, and all the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras. I hope that we see some common sense in the long run.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 28th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Mine is another voice from Lincolnshire, but I will give a slightly different emphasis to proceedings. Given that I am a member of the Transport Committee and chairman of the all-party group on rail and that I was a member of the High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill Committee, I think I have heard more than my fair share of arguments to be able to assess the merits of the proposals. I will not repeat all the arguments in favour—the Secretary of State did that admirably earlier—but I will touch on one or two that seem most relevant.

It is simply not possible to mix high-speed services with slower stopping services and freight. Too often, the demands of the freight industry are ignored in this debate. My own constituency is home to the port of Immingham, where 25% of freight moved by rail starts or ends its journey. All the projections I have seen show a steady increase in freight traffic, which is vital to the continuing economic development of the nation and to my corner of northern Lincolnshire in particular. HS2 will benefit not just London and the cities on the route; without transport connections of the highest quality, the UK as a competitive nation will fall behind our competitors and it is the UK as a whole that would suffer.

Economic success is dependent on good-quality transport connections and regional connectivity. The hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane) spoke earlier of Edward Watkin, one of the founders of the Great Central railway. Watkin was also instrumental, as a director of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire railway, in the development of Grimsby docks, the port of Immingham and the resort of Cleethorpes. Indeed, he is commemorated, as are all the directors of the MSLR and the Great Central, by street names in the Grimsby and Cleethorpes area.

GDP statistics show that English regional cities are currently underperforming compared with those in many western European countries. That is why the good transport links provided by the high-speed network— namely HS2—and the released capacity that such a network offers are essential to encourage prosperity and investment. It is not just the towns along the route that will benefit; there is no way that the potential increased demand to provide better services to areas such as my part of northern Lincolnshire—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Just one second. There are a lot of private conversations, and I am struggling to hear. Like me, I am sure that other hon. Members in the House want to hear Martin Vickers.

[Martin Vickers]

The Prime Minister has made it clear that he wants the Humber estuary to become the renewables capital of the UK. That is the Government’s aim, but regular services not just to London but to other major cities are essential to achieving that.

During the past decade, passenger journeys have grown by 50% to almost l.5 billion a year, and that figure will be 2 billion journeys by 2020. As stated in the strategic case, once HS2 has been built, it is forecast to generate £59.8 billion in user benefits, as well as £13.3 billion in wider economic benefits. The HS2 project will create an instant market for construction and civil engineering jobs, and there will be a big opportunity in the manufacturing sector to design and build the rolling stock. Tata Steel’s Scunthorpe works is heavily dependent on the production of rail track. If the Scunthorpe plant is successful in obtaining orders for the project, the jobs of the 250 of my constituents who work there will be made that little bit more secure.

Job creation is vital, but we also need to train our young people if we are to meet the demands of the new industry. I suggest that the proposed HS2 college and training centre should be in northern Lincolnshire.

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[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

As a Yorkshire MP, I am worried about HS2, but not for the same reasons that Mr Speaker or some of my colleagues are worried. In fact, I am not worried about the actual policy. I am proud to support it: it shows vision and a clear sense of the infrastructure our country needs to compete in the 21st century.

I am not concerned that the policy will suck funding away from other transport projects—the £56 billion of investment in non-HS2 projects between now and 2021, or the £600 million going into the northern hub. I am not worried about HS2 Ltd itself; we have a crackerjack team in Sir David Higgins and the whole management. I am not at all convinced by the arguments against the rationale and the cost-benefit of HS2. The arguments for HS2 on capacity and speed are pretty compelling, as we have heard in this debate, and the value for money projection seems quite conservative. I am not concerned about Britain’s ability to deliver on this project. We have done Eurotunnel, the Olympics and HS1, and we will nail this project without a problem. The number of complaints about the project has been relatively small. There were only 22,000 responses to the consultation before Second Reading. We should take confidence from that support and from the international comparisons, such as the examples of Lille and Lyon in France, the linking of every city of more than 500,000 people in China and, lately, the performance of Eurotunnel, which this year smashed its freight and passenger targets.

My worry is that Yorkshire is not as excited about the project as it should be. This is a phenomenal opportunity for Britain and particularly for Yorkshire and the north. There has been a lacklustre response so far. Labour dominates many of the cities in Yorkshire, but in Parliament it shilly-shallies in its support. Wakefield council has rejected HS2. In a recent poll, a majority of Yorks SMEs seemed a bit lukewarm. There is not the interest, sizzle and enthusiasm that one sees when one goes to Manchester, as I did for the last Conservative conference. I encourage you to come to the next one, Mr Deputy Speaker. There has been little discussion of how Yorkshire can strategically maximise the opportunity of HS2.

The opportunity for the north and for Yorkshire comes not just from the faster speeds to London and Birmingham or from the greater capacity, but from the massive economic investment to integrate Yorkshire and the north more closely. We need to be enthusiastic because transport is vital to our region’s productivity. If one compares the productivity of Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds to geographical areas of a similar size, such as Chicago and the Ruhr valley, there are billions of pounds of difference in the output. Not only is there lower productivity, but the number of FTSE 100 companies north of Birmingham is only six. Skills are slow to get across the region from west to east and supply chains are not short enough. The keys to fixing those problems are complex, but better transport is vital.

We need to bring our northern cities closer together. Jim O’Neill and his City Growth Commission are absolutely right with the idea of “ManPool”, but perhaps we need to go further and bring all our northern cities closer together. Over the next 10 years, nearly half of global growth will come from just 400 cities. Yorkshire and the north must be in the race. We have a once in a century opportunity to get there. We have to look at how HS2 can be the backbone for that development. We need a second London. It will look different, but we need it if we are to compete in the world.

What do we need to do? Sir David Higgins and his team have clearly articulated their desire to maximise the benefits for the north. We need to work out what we want from the project. Doncaster did not lose out on the benefits of East Coast because of the line, but because of a lack of political will. Every LEP should be pushed hard for an HS2 growth plan and to show how it is working with partners across the region. We need small business groups to engage and promote the opportunity. We need to look at transport as a whole and be clear about what we want. We must do that as quickly as possible. We must look at how we will build on the northern hub, how we will integrate with East Coast and how we will improve trans-Pennine services. We need to look at how Yorkshire has reacted so far and shout much louder about the benefits, tearing up old rivalries—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I call Neil Carmichael.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Before I call the next speaker may I suggest that we drop the time limit to four minutes so as to get the Front-Bench speakers in? Then everybody will get in and nobody will be left hanging.

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[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

I think I can speak on behalf of all colleagues who have contributed this evening when I say that this has been an exceptionally good-natured debate. People have expressed a lot of different, heartfelt opinions and we have had a well-tempered and thoughtful debate. I am sure that people listening this evening will see Parliament at its best, with people really addressing the issues.

You are probably wondering, Mr Deputy Speaker—along with other colleagues—why somebody who represents a constituency pretty much as far as you can get from HS2 is speaking in this debate in support of the Bill. The great western railway was the first of all the high-speed railways, as well as one of the masterpieces Brunel left to us, and it serves us very well down to the south-west. I believe HS2 will have benefits as far away as Cornwall.

I was delighted that the Secretary of State came down to my constituency last summer, travelling on the great western railway line and the local branch lines. He listened to an ambitious presentation made by a partnership of people in Cornwall—the local enterprise partnership, Cornwall council and the rail industry—setting out an ambitious plan for investment in our rail services in Devon and Cornwall. I am pleased by the support that the Secretary of State and his team at the Department have given us over the last few months in developing those proposals. In that, we see a massive investment in our Victorian signalling infrastructure, which would enable a 30-minute service along the line, and a huge investment in our sleeper service, which is important to us in Cornwall.

Finally, with some of the changes needed at Old Oak Common, this Bill presents an opportunity for us in Cornwall, because First Great Western has its sleeper maintenance depot there and needs to move it to make way for other developments. We are keen for it to be relocated to the end of the line, down in Penzance, bringing with it some 60 high-quality engineering jobs. It is only fitting to bring those jobs to Cornwall, as it was Trevithick who invented the first steam engine in Cornwall. As Cornwall has a unique position in England and benefits enormously from EU funds, the idea would be a good deal for the British Government, because what is being proposed is using those funds to help First Great Western to relocate its depot, so I hope this evening that the Secretary of State can provide me with—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Just to help the hon. Lady, we are discussing High Speed 2. I know there must be a link to Cornwall, but I am beginning to lose it a little. If she could bring High Speed 2 in now and again, it might help the Chair a little.

[Sarah Newton]

Yes, this is really about Old Oak Common and moving the depot down to Cornwall, and I would like to finish by asking the Secretary of State to give me his assurance that he will seriously consider the final proposals that have been given to him this evening, put together by the LEP and Cornwall council, that will truly enable us in Cornwall to benefit not only from the massive railway investment that is being made by this Government but also from HS2, and to make sure every part of the nation benefits from this massively important infrastructure project.

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Conversations are going on on both sides of the House. I want to hear the Minister, as I am sure do all Members’ constituents. Minister Goodwill.

[Mr Goodwill]

Later this year, we will launch an enhanced need-to-sell scheme to help owner-occupiers who need to sell their property but cannot because of HS2. I stress that there is no distance test to pass in this case. We will also launch a voluntary purchase scheme giving owner-occupiers in rural areas up to 120 metres from the line the choice to sell their property and receive its full unblighted market value. We will also consult on offering them a new choice of a cash alternative, and we will consult on new home owner payments for owner-occupiers in rural areas between 120 and 300 metres from the line to help share more of the expected economic benefits of HS2 with rural home owners, not just helping those who want to move, but also those who need to stay in their homes. We appreciate that for some no amount of money or help will be enough, and we do not pretend that these proposals will satisfy everyone, but we believe that they are fair and represent the best possible balance between properly helping people and providing value for money for the taxpayers.

I come now to some of the comments made in the debate. I thank Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition for their support. It was their idea after all. As a fellow Yorkshire MP, the shadow Secretary of State recognises the benefits to the north, and we also agree that the project should be delivered in a cost-effective way. Indeed, another Yorkshire MP, the shadow Chancellor, agrees with us that it is absolutely right—possibly for the first time. The shadow Secretary of State is correct in holding us to our word on the environmental mitigation included in the scheme. She asked me about the response to the HS2 phase 2 consultation. We will respond in the autumn and make further decisions following that.

The shadow Secretary of State also mentioned resilience in the south-west and we will certainly not ignore other parts of the country. I was recently in Dawlish and saw the work carried out there. I also drove on the A30 and A303 in the west country between Stonehenge and the Blackdowns, which is an important route, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile).

Who could not have been impressed by the enthusiasm of my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) for HS2 and for the advantages for God’s own county? He said that Yorkshire could aspire to have a second London, but I think we could do better than that.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) is a stalwart campaigner on the behalf of her constituents and raises concerns about the cost of the project. She cannot have it both ways. One reason why costs have increased is the unprecedented environmental mitigation, including the more than nine of the 11 miles of the line in her constituency that is in either a tunnel or a cutting. She is perfectly entitled to her own opinion of the project, but she is not entitled to her own facts.

I thank the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chair of the Transport Committee, for her support. I see the Select Committee as a critical friend and look forward to its future reports.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) drew attention to the struggle to build projects such as HS1, which spanned generations, and the need to reduce overcrowding by not only increasing capacity on the new north-south railway, but also freeing up capacity on existing lines for passengers and freight.

The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) welcomed the scrapping of the HS1-HS2 link, but not much else.

I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) that the excavated material from the tunnel in the Chilterns will not be disposed of in his patch.

The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) outlined the advantages for Manchester and the north-west, as did the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), and drew attention to historical objectors to rail projects. I was reminded that the east coast main line would have gone through Stamford were it not for Lord Burghley’s interests in the coaching industry. Instead, the line went through a little-known place called Peterborough and look at the benefits it brought there. The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton said that the quicker we do this, the better, and I say “Hear, hear.”

The hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) outlined the advantages to Birmingham and its airport, and I heard her concern about the properties of the National Trust, with which we are working to protect the setting of Hartwell house.

The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) described how HS2 will bridge the north-south divide, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw).

I understand the concerns of my right hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr O’Brien) about construction in his constituency. He suggested that double-decking could be a solution, but that would not only be just a stop-gap but result in years of weekend engineering closures and replacement buses on the west coast main line.

For their supportive comments, I thank the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane) and my hon. Friends the Members for Northampton South (Mr Binley), for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker), for Redditch (Karen Lumley), for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry), for Warrington South (David Mowat), for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) and for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), who stressed the importance of the project to Leeds.

The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) supports the scheme, but I understand his concerns about the Washwood Heath maintenance depot.

I agree with the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) that it is wrong to brand people with genuine concerns about the line’s impact as nimbys.

Tonight the House faces a great decision, one of national importance that will profoundly affect the way our economy develops for generations. The House must be satisfied with the need for HS2, and it must be satisfied that the appropriate measures are in place to deliver the scheme in a sustainable way, both economically and environmentally. HS2 will help drive this country forward. It will create new capacity and enable better use of existing transport corridors. It will join up our great cities and strengthen our economy. As a result, it will help open up opportunities currently held back by lack of investment. Along the way, it will be subject to careful, detailed scrutiny. Tonight’s vote is an important step in taking HS2 forward and I urge right hon. and hon. Members to support the Bill for phase 1.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill [Lords]

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

We have up to three hours in which we could debate the Third Reading of this Bill—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I might be able to help the hon. Gentleman. As we all know, Third Readings never drag on for that long, and I would be tempted to put the Question way before then, so he ought to get his points in and not detain the House for too long. I know that he is desperate to get on to the Second Reading of the next Bill.

[Mr Chope]

As always, you anticipate my remarks, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The whole process of private legislation should perhaps by revisited by the Procedure Committee, because this Bill shows that too often Bills are brought to this House and presented without being sufficiently thought through in advance. Great chunks of the Bill have been removed as a result of the scrutiny that this House has given to it. I know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that on Third Reading we do not talk about what is not in a Bill but only what is left in it. However, it is important to put it on record that all the provisions relating to pedicabs, for example, which were very controversial, have been completely removed. As I indicated in my intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), a Bill that originally had 39 clauses now has only 20, so it is much tighter.

There have also been a significant number of amendments. I commend my hon. Friend for the constructive way in which he has dealt with the points that have been raised. Obviously he and I have not agreed about everything, but where we have been able to agree we have amended the Bill accordingly.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Sheerman]

The Secretary of State has commented following my intervention. I have talked to people in the big cities, and many of them have not read the six critical evaluations of the impact of HS2, and they certainly have not looked at the impact of high-speed rail on the provincial cities in France. It is sucking the lifeblood out of them and into the metropolitan area around Paris. We have also not been told on what grounds the local people here, who have not been given a referendum—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman should know better. This is his second or third intervention. Let us try to keep the debate calm and orderly, with short interventions.

[Mrs Gillan]

Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker.

Aviation Strategy

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Thornton]

We will have to wait for the report to see the answer to that. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I think we will work through the Chair. Have you finished?

[Mike Thornton]

Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

No problem. I call David Lammy.

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I do not want to scaremonger, but the hon. Gentleman is hoping to catch my eye later and we are running out of time. If we have more interventions, I will have to drop the time limit.

[Alok Sharma]

I note the point my hon. Friend is making, but the idea that we would have two hub airports operating—

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am sorry but we have to introduce a time limit of four minutes—[Interruption.] Well, I do not think you have been helping with that, Mr MacNeil.

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[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

I will try to charge through what I have to say and if any political enemies or friends wish to intervene to give me another minute or two, they would be most welcome.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

You could try to intervene on yourself.

[Mr MacNeil]

I can always try, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I know the importance of aviation. I fly probably more than any other MP—at least four times a week and sometimes six times a week. At least, I did until flights in my constituency were vandalised by the local council, which axed 60% of inter-island flights between Stornoway and Benbecula and Barra and 100% of flights to the most vulnerable island community. That was all the more strange given that they were public service obligation routes. While the council can make arguments about rurality and peripherality in Edinburgh, London or Brussels, the arguments hold no weight it seems once it secured the money within its own corridors of power. Indeed, flights used by people going for cancer treatment have been described by the council leader as 10-minute tourist flights, which is very disappointing. The flight was not 10 minutes and the councillors he dragooned into voting to axe flights to these communities have not been to visit them since their election. The upshot of this transportation vandalism is that travel from one end of the Outer Hebrides to Edinburgh, London or Brussels is faster for most of the week than going to the other end of the Outer Hebrides.

Why do I mention this? The debate has concentrated on the south-east of England and Heathrow, about which there seems to be a love-hate relationship. London has tremendous connectivity, with 360 destinations—almost one for every day of the year—which I think is more than Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam enjoy, although the individual airports are better.

Cycling

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Monday 2nd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I have cycled in the UK and in Holland. Does my hon. Friend share my concern about meaningless bits of paint on pavements and trees in the middle of cycle routes, and does he agree that what we really need are segregated cycle paths?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I can see the hon. Gentleman is in free wheel, but I am going to put on the brake. We said 10 to 15 minutes, so I am sure Dr Huppert will have finished in a couple of minutes.

[Dr Huppert]

We all benefit from improving the take-up of cycling. To quote the president of the Automobile Association, Edmund King:

“Implementation of the Get Britain Cycling recommendations would bring tangible business and economic benefits by reducing congestion, absenteeism, NHS costs and by producing a more creative and active workforce.”

There speaks the voice of the automobile, and I entirely agree with him.

Despite these benefits, Governments for decades have not sufficiently supported cycling. There has been massive investment in road infrastructure, but little for cycling; cyclists have often had small-scale provision, if any. Individual Ministers have tried, but they have not always received the support they need. I pay great tribute in particular to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), who I believe is the longest ever serving Minister with responsibility for cycling. However, he is not able to deliver as much as he or I would like. He has done things such as announce extra money over the summer for the local sustainable transport fund, but we need more and it needs to be sustained.

Many Ministers face a culture that points the other way—that focuses on car drivers only, to the detriment of others and without realising that fewer cyclists will result in more cars on the roads. I hope that one of the outcomes of our report and this debate will be to provide support for Ministers of all parties who want to make that difference—to turn welcome comments, such as those made by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, into reality.

On 12 August the Prime Minister said that cycling will be at the heart of future road developments. I hope we can make sure, through the impetus of this debate, the “Cities fit for cycling” campaign run by The Times, the excitement of the Olympics and the double Tour de France victory, that that will become a reality.

London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill [Lords]

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Chope]

I am making an intervention.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The Minister is getting carried away. He cannot intervene on someone who is already intervening. I think we have got the message for Bob Blackman to respond.

[Bob Blackman]

Does the Minister wish to intervene?

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[Philip Davies]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

What a choice! I call Mr Nuttall.

[Mr Nuttall]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. As always, it is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), who went through the amendments with his usual courtesy and in a good-natured and thoughtful way. I am extremely grateful for some of the explanations he gave. I am not entirely convinced by every one of them, as I will explain, but I am extremely grateful that he put forward the promoters’ case so eloquently on their behalf.

It has already been a long old road for this Bill, as I am sure my hon. Friend would agree. Only yesterday, when my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) and I noticed that it was up for debate this evening, I said, “I seem to recall that I might have spoken on Second Reading.” He said, “I think you did.” I said, “I can’t recall when that was.” He replied, “Oh, it was about March time,” so I went away and looked it up. I found that Second Reading did indeed take place about March time, but March last year—on 6 March 2012, to be precise.

The Bill has changed fairly substantially since it was first introduced in the other place. It has gradually shrunk in size, as clause after clause has been shed, for one reason or another. Members might well be wondering what has happened in the intervening period—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Well, let me help the hon. Gentleman. We are discussing the amendments, and we do not need to hear the history of the Bill prior to the amendments because, in fairness, the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) has already set out the subject very well. I know that the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) is desperate to speak only to the amendments.

[Mr Nuttall]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am indeed. In one sentence, let me say that this is relevant because there was an opposed Committee meeting on 6 November last year that resulted in the Bill shrinking since the last time we discussed it, so we now have a different Bill—

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[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Don’t worry, I do not need to see the Bill shrinking before my eyes. All I want to hear being discussed are the amendments, and I know that that is all the hon. Gentleman is going to do. No more sentences; we are going to stick to the amendments.

[Mr Nuttall]

I was just finishing the sentence, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I shall start with amendments 1 and 2. I am surprised that only two of the amendments have been accepted by the promoters. As has already become evident, there are some good arguments for many of the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch. Amendments 1 and 2 deal with the starting dates. They are worth considering because it would make sense, if we are introducing new laws that will apply all across London, to have them start at the same time. I listened carefully to the argument put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East about the need for complete flexibility. He also suggested that it would be somewhat draconian to introduce new rules to be applied across London all at the same time. The other side to that argument is that, if the boroughs introduced the new rules on different dates—or even in different years—there could be confusion, to say the least, as to which boroughs had adopted a particular new rule and which had not.

Let us look at the details of clause 3(2) and (3). They imply that different start dates could be set even within the same borough. Subsection (2) states:

“Different days may be fixed under this section for the purposes of the application of the provisions mentioned in section 1(3) to different areas.”

I emphasise the words “to different areas”. The only way in which subsection (3) differs is in its final three words, which are “to an area”. It states:

“Different days may be fixed under this section for the purposes of the application of the provisions mentioned in section 1(3) to an area.”

I appreciate the comment made by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East that the signs could be put in place for temporary reasons, or to implement temporary traffic flow measures. Obviously, no one could possibly argue that that kind of sign should not be put up and then taken down again so as to suit the circumstances. However, I see no reason why that could not apply even if amendments 1 and 2 were accepted and those two subsections were left out of the Bill, which would be a sensible step to take.

Amendment 3 would add the words

“and approved by the Secretary of State for Transport”

to the end of clause 4(13). In an intervention, I said that I took issue to a small degree with my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch. First of all, by limiting the provision to the Secretary of State for Transport, there could be problems in the future if, for example, there were not a Secretary of State for Transport. Personally, I would prefer the description “the Secretary of State”. I heard the Minister say in an intervention that in any event, this matter should be dealt with by the Mayor of London, and there might well be some merit in that.

Rail 2020

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Before I call the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), I remind hon. Members that at 6.25 pm the Front Benchers need to start their speeches.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Interventions have taken up a lot of time, so I am having to reduce the time limit to five minutes, and might have to reduce it again to get everyone in—[Interruption.] If you want to moan, please do so, Mr Gummer. The point is that everyone wants to speak. If you are suggesting that I knock somebody off the list, please tell me.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers]

No. Sorry, he looked, er—[Hon. Members: “Keep going!”] I’ll keep going, right. I think what he, er—I’ve lost my track now, I should say.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

You’ve lost your train of thought.

[Martin Vickers]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will try to get back on line.

I am very supportive of where the Government are going with this. I was talking about rebalancing the economy. The economy of my own area in northern Lincolnshire is highly dependent on rail. We talked about the importance of freight earlier. Some 25% of freight tonnage moved throughout the country starts or ends in my constituency at Immingham, so I hope that the increased capacity will provide greater opportunities not only for passengers, but for freight. I therefore support the Government and, sadly, will oppose the amendment.

East Coast Main Line Franchise

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We did say that the hon. Lady would speak for 10 to 15 minutes, but she has now been going for 19, and it looks like she still has a ream of paper to get through. I feel sure that she will be coming to the end shortly.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I would certainly argue for keeping East Coast in public ownership. The point I am trying to make is that even in terms of the Government’s justification for what they are doing and their timetable, it does not make financial sense. Therefore, it will not make financial sense for the effectiveness of this country’s railways, or indeed for our financial position. That is an important point. It raises the question of why the east coast main line is being refranchised at this point.

If the Government’s decision had been based purely on a view that East Coast had been performing badly in the public sector, which I know has been said—I hope I have show that it is not the case—it might have been an imperative for turning East Coast around, but that is not the point. I think that we have to ask, yet again, why this is happening. Why should we take a service that is performing well and put it out to franchise, with all the disruption that will cause, and potentially for no gain?

I hope that the Minister will address some of the key points that I have already raised but that were not fully addressed the last time we debated it—punctuality, premium payment and the success of East Coast—because I am sure that he would not want to be accused of putting ideology ahead of the interests of passengers and taxpayers.