Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Main Page: Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Conservative - Life peer)
Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Con)
My Lords, I warmly commend the noble Lord for securing this debate. I come with a sense of enormous self-reproach, since in my first role in government, 25 years ago, as a Minister responsible for local government, planning and communities, I never mentioned or did anything whatever about street markets. I say this as somebody who has spent my entire life in street markets. As a younger woman I shopped in Brixton market, founded in the 19th century. It sold lovely Afro-Caribbean produce in Electric Avenue, the first street to have electric lighting. Everything I wore, ate or gave anybody came from the market. In fact, it is rare for me not to be wearing a number of items of clothing that came from a market—even today, a number of the items I am wearing came from street markets.
Then I used to spend a great deal of time in—this is somewhere that the noble Lord may know well—Lower Marsh at the Cut, again founded in the mid-19th century. I met my friends and took my children for walks there. My whole life was in the street market. Most particularly, going back to the 16th century, there was East Street Market down the Walworth Road. That was a very special market on Saturdays.
I then became a Member of Parliament for Surrey. There, we had one of the historic charter markets—going right back to 1300—in Godalming and another in Haslemere. In that constituency, we saw the development of the farmers’ markets, which have been an extraordinary innovation. Milford had one of the first farmers’ markets. It was warmly and helpfully supported by the local authority and it provided an extraordinarily valuable outlet for local farmers. However, it also fulfilled a double purpose in ensuring that an increasingly urbanised community understood agriculture. Farmers’ markets—there is a wonderful one that meets under Humber Bridge each month—have a role in communication.
Then I moved on and, apart from a number of other markets, I now frequently have the privilege of visiting the markets in Worthing, where there are farmers’ markets and a very exotic French market, which is a frequent and popular event.
When we think about markets and retail space, for which competition is so intense, we understand how the juggernauts that are supermarkets have transformed shopping—in many ways, for the good. For those of us who find weekly shops particularly trying, going to a huge supermarket can be of great value. At the same time, there has been a further revolution with developments online and extraordinary changes in retail behaviour patterns.
However, the street markets in the hearts of our cities have in many ways an ever-greater value. I have the strong view that people’s lives are fragmented. The digital world means that too many experiences are virtual. The joy and pleasure of a street market is that it involves direct communication, discussion and dialogue, as well as the huge variety of which the noble Lord spoke. Frequently, it can be an outlet for someone who is starting up a business—maybe a craft industry. It provides an opportunity to test goods. We do not discuss it in these papers, although I suspect that there is a connection here with the explosion of car boot sales. They provide a similar experience for people, as they are about congregation and meeting. They have the hurly-burly of the market.
Whatever the convenience of shopping online, it is a fairly lonely experience. Similarly, the great supermarkets are like factories of purchasing; they are quite different from the communal experience. That was the evidence from the excellent report sponsored by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. It suggested that the social benefits of markets can do a great deal to promote social cohesion, encourage different communities to intermingle, and provide community support and information. That evidence came from Professor Sophie Watson, who, I am delighted to say, is a professor of sociology at the excellent Open University. I am someone who always feels that I need evidence before I can hold forth on a subject. It is not a handicap that many politicians face but I like to look at the evidence before giving a strong view. Her evidence is that the markets are extraordinarily important sites of social interaction for all groups in the community but—fortunately for many of us in this House—most significantly for older people, especially women. Markets are important social spaces for mothers with young children, young people and families with children, particularly at weekends. That identifies with the younger me and the older me.
The report also argued that markets have a significant social inclusion role as places to linger. Often when people are in a hurry, there are few places to linger, and I always feel that charity shops, for all the condemnation they receive, provide a place of congregation, meeting and, very often, study. Whatever the subject of the charity shop, it is a place where people learn more about the charity. If you were president of Abbeyfield, for example, as the noble Baroness is, you would learn all about Abbeyfield. Then, of course, the social life of traders plays a significant role in creating that vibrant atmosphere in markets.
Tomorrow, there will be a debate on organic food and the health implications. Most unfortunately, I am unable to participate in it. I am at what I would describe as the extreme sceptic end of the organic food market arguments. It seems to me that what street markets provide is fresh, good value food which provides all the benefits that we are looking for.
I congratulate the Government and a succession of Ministers for taking steps on this—there will always be people who say that they should take further steps. We have had contributions on this from Grant Shapps, Eric Pickles, the Secretary of State, and Mark Prisk. A number of them talked about planning restrictions, small business rate relief and other provisions for towns. My preoccupation, about which noble Lords may hear a great deal in subsequent years, is the 2017 City of Culture, Kingston-upon-Hull. The contribution of street markets to that will be magnificent. I have spoken with the local authority about the work that it is undertaking to ensure that both the covered and the open markets are really fit for purpose. The noble Lord made many valuable comments about the facilities needed to make a market a flourishing success, not least cleanliness and toilet facilities, but cash machines are particularly important.
In the city of Kingston-upon-Hull, there is great expectation about the number of visitors who will come during the year of culture. Preparations are well under way. In Londonderry/Derry, they had twice the visitor numbers during the City of Culture year; Hull expects to have three times the number. With 1 million ferry passengers a year, noble Lords will understand the huge potential of street markets as that great city, with a history far greater than many of those in the more prosperous south-west, undergoes a city renaissance—
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
I am sorry to interrupt, but, once a Whip, always a Whip. In the absence of one, these are time-limited debates. I am sorry to interrupt my noble friend in mid-flow.
Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone
I will continue to speak about the city of Hull on another occasion.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, I will immediately start with a brief apology. Today’s response will be truncated in view of our being limited by time. I assure noble Lords that I have made detailed notes on all their questions and I will write to them on those I do not cover. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, for initiating this debate and for his informed, impassioned and highly entertaining introductory speech.
Almost all our towns and cities owe their very existence to markets. Those markets grew up—as I did—where people came together to trade. I remember being sent out by my mother to the market stall for some groceries. Being bilingual, I knew the Urdu word for aubergine, but not what it was in English. So I persisted in asking for a range of vegetables, then said: “May I also have some bengans?”. The expression on the face of the trader was something you can all imagine.
My noble friend Lady Bottomley will be pleased to learn that, since her time as a local government Minister, we now have a dedicated retail markets Minister who also looks after town centres and high streets. Indeed, I met the recently appointed Minister, Penny Mordaunt, this morning in light of this debate and I can assure noble Lords that she is all guns blazing in ensuring that we protect this central part of our economy.
I was pleased to hear, during the debate, the great enthusiasm for markets from all noble Lords here today. People feel deeply, as they should, that these markets ought to remain and, indeed, thrive. The noble Lord, Lord Harrison, spoke eloquently about his local markets in Chester; people need to support such markets if they are to survive. I have great affection for my local markets. In Wimbledon we have a number of diverse and interesting markets, including farmers’ markets, and in Cobham a farmers’ market meets every fourth Saturday. However, markets, as they have always done, need to evolve to the changing high streets of today—as was said by several noble Lords. My department, DCLG, is working with the market industry to help traders adapt to the current retail environment.
Turning to specific questions, the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, asked about the “How Bizaar” programme in Leeds. That programme was funded: I believe its new quarter was funded in October 2010 as part of that but that the specific funding stream has now ceased. If there is any further detail on that, I will write to him. The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, talked about the onset of online trading. I totally share her sentiments on that but many market traders have an online presence as well as being behind a stall: forward-thinking is required for market operators in the public and private sectors. Indeed, the rollout of wi-fi across places such as Bolton has already had an impact.
Many noble Lords referred to the “Love Your Local Market” campaign and introducing new entrepreneurs. We have worked closely with, and funded, the National Association of British Market Authorities to set up and run the “Love Your Local Market” campaign. Since the initiative was launched in 2012 it has proven a tremendous success, with 920 towns delivering 7,000 markets in this year’s “Love Your Local Market” fortnight alone. This has not gone unnoticed and the brand has now been adopted in Barcelona and Venice, and interest has also been shown as far afield as the United States and Australia.
The noble Lord, Lord Graham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, talked about the importance of entrepreneurs. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Graham, for his work in the market trading area. As the noble Baroness said, many names we know started life on market stalls. The noble Lord, Lord Sugar, and Richard Branson are among the names we could mention. The “Love Your Local Market” campaign is fundamental to encouraging the next generation of businessmen and women to contribute to the nation’s prosperity. I join my noble friend, Lord Lee, and others who talked about diversity in not just what is offered but also the people involved in markets up and down the country. The noble Lord, Lord Graham, also talked about encouraging people to use markets more. I agree with this very important sentiment and that is why the Government continue to back the “Love Your Local Market” campaign. The noble Baroness, Lady Dean, talked about the importance of wholesale markets. Her Majesty’s Government, through my colleagues at Defra, take the lead for wholesale markets. However, we recognise the close links between the retail and wholesale markets and I am pleased to say that Covent Garden Market Authority has a seat on the DCLG retail markets forum.
Several questions were asked about training. I have some substantive government responses but, bearing in mind the most detailed, eloquent and sometimes lengthy contributions we have had in today’s debate, and if noble Lords agree, I shall write to them on this important issue because it warrants the detailed response necessary.
Again, I thank all noble Lords who participated in this debate. It is important that it is recognised that markets are the heartbeat of what represents Britain today. They are a key part of the retail offering of Britain and the Government are alive to this. I thank all noble Lords, not only for their contributions but, as with the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, for their suggestions, which I shall consider most carefully. I end with a simple message and a simple request. We are all keen supporters of our local markets in towns up and down the country and it is incumbent on us all to ensure that this important part of British life is sustained not just for today but for generations to come.