Lord Birt
Main Page: Lord Birt (Crossbench - Life peer)(7 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Birt (CB)
My Lords, I welcome the long-overdue reform of the BBC’s governance set out in this draft charter and agreement, although I will suggest that the text could, with benefit, be clarified and sharpened in places.
But I begin, I am afraid, on a somewhat more critical note than that of noble Lords who have spoken thus far. I used to believe that a royal charter was an apt symbol of the BBC’s proper independence from Government and Parliament, but I know better now. Twice during the present charter we have seen Government mount raids on the BBC with far-reaching consequences, and absent any public consultation or parliamentary scrutiny whatever.
The current 2006 charter and agreement contained this clause:
“The BBC may use sums paid to it to … fund any activities properly carried on by the BBC except … those carried on for the purposes of the World Service”—
in other words, you cannot use the licence fee to fund the World Service. But in 2010 the coalition Government shamelessly ignored that clause and, indeed, required the BBC to fund the World Service from the licence fee, alongside a number of other services that had also previously been financed by Government. In a second raid, in 2015, the Government transferred to the BBC the obligation to pay for free licences for the over-75s. We all remember that.
At a time when the migration to the internet is gradually undermining the finances of UK commercial broadcasters, and when, as a consequence, we are witnessing the long-term and tragic decline of UK production, the impact of these two raids will be—over the span of a decade—to take almost exactly 25% out of the real resources available to the BBC for its core services. A massive reduction in programming is therefore simply unavoidable.
So how was such far-reaching action possible in defiance of the 2006 charter? After the World Service ambush, an amendment was quietly made by an Order in Council simply deleting the clause that I read out, which had expressly forbidden such action. Royal charters and the Privy Council emanate from Norman times and were used by tyrannical kings to bypass Parliament. They should have no place in modern times. I accept, of course, that a royal charter is a done deal on this occasion, but let us all agree that the BBC needs the protection of statute next time round. As we discuss the draft this evening, let us recognise that, at any point in the next 11 years, the charter and agreement can be changed again without reference back to Parliament. Let us recognise specifically that these clauses contain nothing to inhibit a third raid. But it is of course not too late: let us even now consider amending the charter to put an open and proper process around any such interventions during its term.
To be more positive, I wholeheartedly welcome the emphasis that the Government have placed on distinctiveness—I do not have the reservations that others have expressed so far. The root justification for a publicly funded BBC is to offer, in the round, programming that the market does not provide or underprovides; it is to stretch all of the nation’s best creative, entertainment and journalistic talents, and thereby to engage, extend and delight every kind of licence payer. However, the drafting of the charter places too much emphasis on reviewing the BBC’s services. It is as important to bring a distinctive approach to every genre, and to serve every section of the audience, as it is to consider the distinctiveness of individual networks and services. The drafting could, with benefit, underline that.
The BBC has creativity deep in its soul, but history—and I do mean history—tells us first that the BBC, like any institution, can slip off the rails, falter in specific genres, and fail to follow how society is changing and thus to meet new and emerging audience need. Secondly, history tells us that the BBC, an unusually large and very complex organisation indeed, has not always been well managed as an institution. This new regulatory and governance framework should reduce risk in both respects, but only if the key players rise to the challenge.
It is vital that Ofcom avoids box-ticking regulation—there is a bit of box ticking in the draft. The old IBA should be its exemplar. Someone has to do what generations of trustees and governors, often captured by the institution, have rarely done; that is, to call a spade a spade and identify boldly and confidently where the BBC is succeeding and where it is falling short, and to require the BBC to do something about it. For the avoidance of doubt, there were of course areas of programme weakness in my time, as there always will be. I suggest that the majesty of Ofcom’s responsibility to make judgments about the BBC’s programme performance could be more emphatic in the text.
As for the management of the institution itself, it plainly is the victim of much dialogue and compromise. A 14-person board is too large and unwieldly. It will lack intimacy and risks being ineffective. That said, the appointments to that board will now be critical. Given the intermittent failure of the BBC over the sweep of its history to manage itself well as an organisation—to be alert and strategic; to be efficient; to deal with underperformance, and so on—the board does not need another lottery selection of the great and the good but robust non-executives of wide, worldly and heavyweight institutional experience. Such individuals have emerged in the past, thankfully, but—and I say this from personal experience—only rarely.
It is good news that the chair will be involved in all appointments as it is vital to start with an overview of the required mix and not just make one incremental appointment at a time—a Whitehall failing. However, it is an odd feature of the draft, and not good practice in my experience, for the chief executive—here, the director-general—to be on the nomination committee responsible for appointing independent directors. Executives should not choose who will mark their homework.
Finally, I think that the new requirement placed on the BBC to reveal the compensation of top talent is low politics. The BBC is in the market in important ways: it must buy its electricity, recruit support workers and hire top technologists. It must do all this with prudence and care, and the board must be certain that it does. But requiring the BBC to reveal Gary Lineker’s compensation is just mischief-making. It will invade the privacy of people who are not determining how to spend the public’s money; it will frighten away talent; and it will sow unnecessary dissension. I ask the Government simply to drop this requirement.
Overall, I welcome the new framework—it is an improvement. If it is implemented well by Ofcom, and if we end up with a new, muscular BBC board, the world’s most outstanding broadcaster and the UK’s most important cultural institution will emerge even better and stronger still.
Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)
My Lords, I begin by picking up on some points that noble Lords have made. I was very interested in what my noble friend Lord Birt said about trying to be distinctive, because in some ways you can try too hard. Noble Lords may remember the BBC’s excellent coverage of Wimbledon last year—and then it put on, on BBC 2, “Wimbledon 2Day”, which was terrible and execrable. But it had the common sense and wisdom to change it, and I am sure that it will not be there in that format next year. So we can all make mistakes, and we all do.
In fact, I made a mistake when I last spoke in this Chamber on the £150,000 cap at which salaries should be revealed. I said then that I had no real problem with my salary being revealed—it is nowhere near £150,000. Maybe what I was thinking was that it would be very good if the public were aware of what most contributors to the BBC are paid. I mean, it is really almost embarrassing sometimes. I can tell you that Gary Lineker would not put his trousers on for what they get, although we know that he will take them off for his salary, because famously he did.
Several issues of importance are under discussion these evening. I am very grateful to the Minister for giving us this opportunity to air them. I agree with many noble Lords who have talked about the need to keep government at arm’s length from the BBC, but we have to acknowledge that the Government have listened and moved some way from their initial position, if not as far as some would like. It is perhaps in the area of journalism that this issue is most important. Although I must acknowledge an interest as a BBC broadcaster and composer, I have been able to observe journalism from a fairly neutral and objective stance. In fact, I even read the news for some while, but I did not write it.
I would say—notwithstanding the example from the noble Lord, Lord Patten, of something going wrong, as it clearly did—that in my experience, successive parties, as they have come into power, so have they, as the Government of the day, found BBC interrogation and reporting to be an irritant. That is precisely what it should be if journalists are doing their job of examining, inquiring, and scrutinising the work of government. In that respect, journalism at its most probing is not unlike some aspects of the work of your Lordships’ House, which sometimes irritates the Government.
What I really want to focus on this evening is this idea of distinctiveness. If the noble Lord, Lord Alli, will forgive me, I will not talk about having a general distinctiveness but more of being a specialist in the area that I have some knowledge of—the arts, and music in particular. As I was listening, I was thinking about what is distinctive. Is Simon Rattle’s reading of Sibelius’s seventh symphony distinctive because it is set apart from others? Are the speeches of Donald Trump distinctive? They are certainly set apart from those of others, for which we are rather grateful. Is Graham Norton distinctive? I think that what the BBC does in terms of the arts, and music in particular, is incredibly distinctive. It is the only broadcaster that commissions and encourages new work—young musicians—and unusual repertoire. Much can be said about a lot of speech; perhaps we can use the same terminology.
Why is this so important? I think that I would have no difficulty in getting the Minister, indeed the Government, to agree that, in the fields of science and technology and throughout industry, R&D—research and development—is essential. It is what makes us a nation of inventors, of innovators. It is what helps us to keep ahead of the game in world trade. Just look at the people who we produce, who bring a huge amount into the economy—Sir James Dyson, the iPlayer, the world wide web. And so it is in the arts and in music. Composers, conductors and players need the space and the investment to float their ideas. That is what the BBC singularly does for all areas of music, not just classical music. Classic FM, for example, does a very successful job of providing listeners with their favourite bits of music—and very good luck to them—but they do not embrace risk, the new, the things that are essential to research and development.
If noble Lords are perhaps thinking, “Oh dear, some new music is rather difficult and challenging”, that is true—but in his day, Beethoven was described as cacophonous. Yet Beethoven is now part of our staple musical diet. He is a much-loved genius who we realise was ahead of his time. This is a really interesting thought, because “ahead of his time” is a description that we should bear in mind as we consider the freedom that we need to bestow on the BBC so that it may pass on that freedom to the composers, the writers, the directors of today. The opportunity to get it wrong is so important. Did your Lordships know that Donizetti, Bellini, and Verdi wrote a whole host of operas before they wrote the pieces that we all love and celebrate today?
Purely commercial broadcasters simply cannot hope to encourage innovation in this way, however good a job they do. The BBC does, in every branch of music. I welcome the view that ratings are not everything, that to fly the intellectual, challenging flag of innovation and adventure is a position that we should be hugely proud of. If I may say so without embarrassing him, it is what the noble Lord, Lord Bragg, does in “In Our Time”. The rest of the world salutes this excellence, in series such as the Proms and “Hear and Now”. Excellence is not gimmick; excellence is innovation and the ability to look forward, in the same way as we ask of our scientists and our industrial captains, and to develop the world that we will all encounter tomorrow.
Lord Birt
Before the noble Lord sits down, I hope he does not mind my observing that he has just given us an excellent definition of what distinctiveness is, which should allay some of the fears of those who have spoken about it. What he said applies to every kind of genre, whether it is comedy or entertainment. Anybody who is a decision-maker in the BBC takes that set of ideas into every area of programming. That is what distinctiveness is. Does the noble Lord accept that?
Lord Berkeley of Knighton
I am very grateful to my noble friend for amplifying so articulately my feelings on this subject.
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke (Lab)
My Lords, I too declare that I am a former employee of the BBC—but in the face of so many senior luminaries of the BBC, I should point out that I was a humble Scottish economics correspondent. My son works for BBC Children in Need, so I suppose his boss is Pudsey.
I shall take up the point that the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, made about the National Audit Office, because I am concerned about the implications of NAO audits of the BBC. The role of the NAO will be to look at the BBC’s commercial subsidiaries. The BBC is a global commercial enterprise. How can such a huge organisation, operating globally, function within the confines of a public service auditor?
My noble friend Lord Pendry talked about value for money and the “Wanted Down Under” programme. I have an even more serious addiction than the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, who is addicted to BBC Radio 4. I am addicted to Radio 4 but I am also addicted to the World Service, particularly during the night. The value-for-money issues surrounding such intense public sector broadcasting are very difficult to quantify. Indeed, much though I am a huge fan of “House of Cards”, written by the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, the BBC has already revealed that the cost of two series of “House of Cards” for Netflix, viewed by 6% of the UK adult population, would allow the BBC to deliver 14 drama series, viewed by 71% of UK adults. I would love to see how the National Audit Offices manages to deal with that.
A number of references have been made this evening to training. The BBC’s training function has historically been the gold standard of broadcasting training, and it is regrettable that there has been a reduction in training expenditure. Not only does it create a much better environment for our creative industries by raising the skill levels of the people in those industries but—here I am speaking particularly about news broadcasting— it allows us to reach out to countries that do not have the benefit of a free media. That is an area that I would like the Minister to expand upon, if not this evening then perhaps in a letter, saying what guarantees can be given in relation to the whole provision of training.
I mentioned the BBC World Service but I have also worked for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Although my career is not as distinguished as that of the noble Lord, Lord Williams, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that one of the best aspects of public diplomacy that we have is the BBC World Service. It comes into its own in crisis situations, and it seems absurd that the Foreign Office is now absolved of responsibility for that function. It is absolutely critical that we do not consider cutting the funding of the World Service and that it should be expanded. Like the noble Lord, Lord Williams, part of my training took place at Bush House. Sadly, Bush House is no more but the World Service was an inspirational environment. I remember as a young woman being hugely affected by the comments of Terry Waite and John McCarthy. When they were eventually released following their kidnapping, they said how significant they found it being able to listen to the BBC World Service.
Similar things can be said about BBC Monitoring. In an environment in which we are concerned about international radicalisation, it plays a key part in our ability to understand what is happening in those parts of the world to which we do not have ready and direct access. Therefore, I urge the Government to look more seriously at expanding, rather than reducing, the monitoring service. This matter was mentioned earlier this evening.
Obviously, as a Scot, I am concerned about BBC Scotland. It has already made a number of announcements about how it will meet the new commitment to recognising national identity. However, I want to say a little bit about Gaelic broadcasting. Gaelic is one of the most significant minority languages in the United Kingdom that is still used. I am not a Gaelic speaker and I do not come from a Gaeltacht, the Gaelic-speaking parts of Scotland—although I am allowed to call myself a Gaelic granny because I have a four year-old granddaughter in Gaelic-medium education, which is enormously successful.
BBC Gaelic radio has been mentioned in the charter since the 1920s but, for the first time, BBC Alba is referred to in the charter. BBC Alba is very successful; 15% of the Scottish population watch it. There has been a huge interest in Gaelic among young people, and the channel provides fantastic opportunities to develop independent production—over 100 people in the highlands and islands of Scotland work in the independent production industry thanks to the opportunities provided by BBC Alba. However, 74% of its output is repeats. Wonderful though it is to see Rhoda MacDonald—one of the most distinguished Gaelic broadcasters, and who used to be one of my special advisers—on BBC Alba, seeing her 20 years ago every week is a bit disconcerting. As most of the programmes we see on BBC Alba are repeats, that makes the channel unsustainable. It is about funding. It is necessary that the BBC, at a UK-wide level, addresses the issue of how to fund the advancement of minority languages.
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke
I recognise that. Indeed, one of my criticisms is the reduction in funding, and we have had a number of references tonight to the change in the licence fee for the over-75s. There are areas where I would criticise the BBC. Some of those criticisms are of the bureaucratic structures around the BBC and non-programme making, which are necessary but sometimes have spiralled quite considerably out of control.
If you want to have diversity, you must recognise that there are many areas of diversity. Part of that includes minority languages. The Irish got it right to a T. They built their modern economy by recognising the value of Gaelic education in encouraging the development of modern languages. As a consequence, if you look at the number of back-office functions in Dublin for major multinational corporations, you will see that a lot of those are there due to that early investment in the Gaelic language and, through that, in modern languages. I do not, therefore, dispute what the noble Lord says about the impact of cuts; they are very considerable indeed.
My time is up. As somebody who was a BBC news trainee, I know that the worst crime is to go into the pips. However, one of the most important things for us to recognise is that there is a lot of bitching about the BBC. It is that same kind of negativity that has got us into problems with Brexit and so on. The BBC is probably one of the best standard bearers of British values and democratic values that this country can provide.
Lord Ashton of Hyde
The noble Lord is correct in saying that I have given no undertakings about how the process will take place in five years’ time. I said that we had certainty for five years, which is a new thing. However, it is not for me to say what the Government will do in five years’ time, although I know that the noble Lord would like me to do so. Measures in the agreement set out that the BBC will provide evidence to the Secretary of State, but at the moment there are no guarantees that there will be a vote in Parliament on the funding settlement. There may well be a discussion about it but I cannot give a guarantee today that there will be a binding vote.
Lord Birt
The Minister has proved himself to be a very generous listener. I hope he will accept that there has been something close to a consensus right across the House—with views expressed very elegantly by the noble Lords, Lord Inglewood, Lord Best, and many others—that it is a question not just of the licence fee but of the Government intervening and requiring the BBC to spend money on things that it might not have chosen to, and doing so, as we know, in circumstances of secrecy. I think that the mood in the House is that these processes should be open and transparent, that there should be public consultation and that Parliament should have a chance to discuss them. The problem here—let us again call a spade a spade—is not the DCMS but the young turks at the Treasury who want to retain their power to do this. They have exercised their power any number of times and they want to continue to do so. Will the Minister agree to take back the mood of the House and seriously consider introducing proper process into this strand of the charter?
Lord Ashton of Hyde
I think I said right at the beginning that I was in listening mode. Speaking as a former Treasury Whip, I use that expression. I certainly understand the strong views on this point expressed by the noble Lord and many others. I am not going to give a guarantee from the Dispatch Box tonight that this process will change, but I can guarantee that I will take back what has been said to the Secretary of State. I have already said that I will write to noble Lords, although I did not say that that would necessarily be before the next debate. I cannot do more than say that I am listening and that I will take back the views of the House.
Quite a lot of mention was made of training. We agree that the BBC plays an important role in skills and training. I do not think it is appropriate for Ofcom to regulate what the BBC does on training—in contrast to what it does regulate, which is the BBC’s output or its effect on the wider market. I am confident that the BBC will continue to make an important and valued contribution in this area.
There has been a lot of talk about salary transparency and the decision to drop the threshold from £450,000 to £150,000. Many spoke passionately and somewhat disparagingly about that. We have been clear that we believe that licence fee payers deserve transparency in this context. It is, after all, public money. Indeed, a number of those affected, including the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, agree that increased transparency over salaries will not drive talent away. On the other hand, we have listened to some of the issues relating to BBC Studios, which will be competitive. There are concerns about whether the new salary transparency requirements will cover BBC Studios. We have thought very carefully about the concerns that both the BBC and a number of noble Lords have had about this outstanding question. I can today confirm that full, named salary disclosure will not be applied to BBC Studios in future.
Lord Ashton of Hyde
It is not a question of the Secretary of State sympathising or not on that. The only role I mentioned for the Secretary of State is making sure that the memorandum of understanding, which includes a dispute resolution mechanism, should be signed and agreed. But at the last resort, yes, the Comptroller and Auditor-General will be able to do his job using his statutory powers if the dispute resolution has not been agreed.
Lord Ashton of Hyde
As far as I understand it from the Bank of England Bill, the NAO is set up and has statutory powers to go in and do its job. The framework agreement and the charter specifically say that, notwithstanding the statutory powers of the NAO, it is not able to judge on editorial matters. At the last resort it can go in under its statutory powers. It is not allowed to opine on editorial matters, but the tricky thing is: what is an editorial matter? That is where we want the memorandum of understanding between the NAO and the BBC to be agreed. My attempted explanation was to cover just what happens if the memorandum of understanding is not agreed. That is where I said the DCMS and the Secretary of State would lend a hand to make sure it is.