Housing and Planning Bill

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 11th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, everybody is of course entitled to live in a decent and well-maintained home that is safe and free from harm. Where someone rents a home from a private landlord and it does not meet the standards, and if complaints to their landlord are not dealt with, as I understand it, tenants can report this to their local authority, which can indeed take action. It is important that tenants raise such problems with their local authority, otherwise it will not know.

What I found interesting in doing the research is that the party opposite seemed to have most of this covered in the Housing Act 2004. If a property is dangerous or in a state of disrepair, a local authority can enter and inspect the home or premises and demand that the hazard is removed—and in some cases, ban the property from being used until it is fixed—under the 2004 Act. If rooms are too small, a local authority can enter and inspect the property and assess whether their size is suitable; again, that is in the Housing Act 2004. If a property is overcrowded, a local authority can enter and inspect the property and decide the number of persons allowed to live there. I could go on. In other words, the Housing Act 2004 seems to cover most of this and I do not understand why this amendment will help in any shape or form.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord’s point is quite simple. Local authorities are not carrying out their statutory responsibilities and there are people all over this country living in squalor because the authorities simply do not have the resource to follow up their responsibilities and deal with that squalor.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

I find the point just made by the noble Lord interesting. He is quite right that there are people living in squalor but, unfortunately, we have also taken away the right of regulation. Local authorities can no longer check now to see who is living in a property, how long they have been there and whether they are just flying in and out. The local authorities were willing to agree to 24-hour licences, so that people coming in for quick holiday use could be accommodated because that is modern travel: people want to do something in 24 hours. But when I spoke on this issue they made it clear to me that, unless you know how many people are living there and for how long, there is no way to have it within the limited amount of time in the year. You cannot even have any idea what that limited amount of time would be. That is one of the problems.

We have seen articles in the press recently saying, “Watch out for all those piles of rubbish outside some property—it shows that it is occupied by many more people than there is the actual facility for. If you see triple-decker beds going in, they are let out at £70 a night to people”. All that definitely has to be caught up with but I find some of the other points in this amendment very strange. I do not think that they are all appropriate. If we interfere too much in the private letting sector—oh! Exactly which amendment are we speaking to now? Is it Amendment 32?

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, Amendment 32 aims to raise property standards for tenants: an aim that this Government support. The amendment will do two things. First, I am afraid I disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, as we believe that it will create new hoops for good landlords to jump through as they seek to prove their property meets the standards, creating unnecessary red tape and expensive bureaucracy, the cost of which will be passed on to tenants through higher rents. Secondly, it risks letting rogue landlords off the hook by expecting tenants—sometimes very vulnerable tenants—to accurately inspect the condition of their property and go to the expense and stress of taking their landlord to court where there are failings. This will not tackle rogue landlords and will not help vulnerable tenants who do not have the knowledge or resources, as to get really bad landlords banned you need a successful prosecution first.

This is not an argument about whether homes should be fit for human habitation, despite how the amendment is titled. It is one about how standards in the private rented sector should be enforced. The Government believe that there is strong enforcement by local authorities and that it is a role that they, on the whole, have fulfilled well to date. Their actions can lead to criminal prosecution, unlimited fines, rent repayment orders and even banning orders. This amendment suggests it should be just a civil matter—a breach of contract to be dealt with by a civil court, where the tenant is asked to prove the case against their landlord. We cannot support this.

As my noble friend Lord Polak outlined, local authorities already make good use of the existing framework that provides them with strong powers to require landlords to make necessary improvements to a property. The housing health and safety rating system assesses the health and safety risk in all residential properties and, under the Housing Act 2004, following a HHSRS inspection, local authorities can issue the landlord with an improvement notice or a hazard awareness notice. Where local authorities find a serious breach—a category 1—they are under a duty and must take action.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

The Minister keeps giving us these assurances. Does she have any stats there, provided by the local authorities, on the number of actions they have brought to comply with the law?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I do not think I have the statistics the noble Lord has asked for, but we have seen a significant reduction in the number of non-decent homes since we came into government in 2010—it is down by 64%. However, on the particular question, I do not have the figures to hand, so I may have to write to him following this debate.

We are strengthening the powers that I outlined previously by taking forward proposals through the Bill to enable local authorities to take further enforcement against rogue landlords, including through the database, banning orders, civil penalty notices and rent repayment orders. Noble Lords have argued that local authorities have limited resources to carry out inspections and take forward prosecutions but, through the new civil penalty measures outlined in the Bill, they would be able to retain those penalties, of up to £30,000, to use for housing-related activities.

The real problem is that tenants are often not aware of their rights when renting a home. To counter this, last year we published a short guide, Renting a Safe Home, which aims to help tenants recognise potentially harmful hazards in the home, such as damp, mould and excess cold, and to signpost them on what to do if something goes wrong. However, we understand the strength of feeling in the House on this and therefore commit to working with stakeholders to revisit this publication—to make it more user-friendly and to promote it further—to ensure that tenants are aware of their rights.

We believe that this proposed new clause would result in additional costs to landlords, which would deter further investment and push up rents for tenants. Of course we believe that all homes should be of a decent standard, and that all tenants should have a safe place in which to live regardless of tenure, but local authorities—

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

The Minister refers to this pushing up the costs and landlords passing those costs on to tenants. Is this the answer we are going to get when we consider the amendments dealing with electrical arrangements, which include the word “may”? In other words, when the Government say they “may” create electrical standards, do they have in mind the costs that they believe landlords are going to pass on to tenants? If that is the case, the legislation is going nowhere and we are not going to get it. We will not even get a statutory instrument.

--- Later in debate ---

The other amendments to the Government’s Amendment 82 deal with the requirement, advised by experts, to ensure that the checks are by a skilled person competent in such work. Being qualified means nothing if it does not specify what this covers. Our Amendments 86 and 88 would effectively tie the test into the CLG’s existing Competent Person Schemes, which ensure high guaranteed standards for this important work of checking for safety. The other amendments, though important, are drafting amendments that I assume the Government would accept. I beg to move.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, I do not intend to detain the House for very long on this subject, which I dealt with at length in Committee. The Minister’s response on the previous amendment will send a shiver down the spine of many organisations outside this House which are relying on the Government to come forward with something more substantial than an amendment that includes the word “may”. In the context of the last debate, “may” suggests to us that nothing meaningful is going to happen. I hope the Minister will give us a full explanation of why the Government felt it necessary to include the word “may” as opposed to “shall”, “must” or whatever. We need that explanation, because I am sure that those outside who are lobbying on this issue will pore over her words with great care to try to establish what the Government’s intention actually is.

My noble friend referred to NICEIC and NAPIT, the two organisations that currently have an installer registration scheme in place. If, in the end, the Government concede and go down this route, it is important that those organisations’ schemes are the ones on which the new safety check arrangements are built, because the infrastructure they already have in place is perfectly adequate to deal with the substance of the amendment my noble friends are promoting today.

[Lord Tope (LD)]

My Lords, my name is added to these amendments. I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, for her tribute to my noble friend Lady Tonge, who first introduced me to this subject and then told me that she was handing it over to me. I am not sure that she has completed the process, but that is what happened. This is the third Bill that I have attempted to amend in this way. The previous two were under the coalition Government, so I am very pleased that we are now making some progress.

I welcome the movement from the Government and their Amendment 82, but I echo all the points that have been made by the previous two speakers—particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, who introduced our amendments very well. It is good to see at least a positive step and a willingness to consider the issue, but I simply do not understand why the Government’s amendment uses the word “may” and not “must”—why the provisions are not mandatory, as they should be.

Electrical safety has been left behind. Quite rightly, we have had regulations relating to gas and carbon monoxide; why not for electrical safety? I hope that the Minister will be able to indicate that the caution in the amendment does not reflect the Government’s position and that they do intend to regulate on this issue and are not merely proposing a gentle amendment which they hope will buy us off at this stage.

I shall not repeat all the things that the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said but I want to add one that I do not think has been mentioned tonight. There are any number of examples of why electrical safety is important and of the dangers when proper checks are not made. Perhaps it is my age but I was shocked to read that nearly two-thirds of properties occupied by couples over the age of 60 do not meet electrical safety standards. From that it follows that in 2013-14 half the fatalities from electrical fires were of people aged over 65. Those statistics alone ought to be shocking enough to indicate that it is time for the Government to make this check mandatory.

We have dealt with the question of costs. According to Electrical Safety First, the five-yearly check being called for will cost in the region of £150. I accept the arithmetic of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that £150 every five years works out at £2.50 a month. That is no argument at all against having the check, even if the cost were considerably greater.

Similarly, we feel that the term “qualified” in this context means nothing at all. Electrical Safety First certainly feels that, and in fact it says that it is meaningless. The person carrying out the check needs to be property-competent. Again, we would welcome reassurance from the Minister that the Government will take that on board when they draft the regulations, if indeed today they can give us a firm commitment not that they “may” produce regulations but that they “will” produce regulations.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, Amendments 82 and 92, if approved by the House, will provide an enabling power that will allow the Secretary of State to set requirements for electrical safety in private rented properties, and their enforcement, through secondary legislation. I am conscious that this is an issue that many noble Lords feel strongly about, as we have heard again today, and it raised considerable debate in Committee. Following the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, I, too, extend my sympathies to the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge.

The Government are taking a measured approach to this issue. Should Amendments 82 and 92 be approved by the House, we will continue our research and work with the sector to explore further the detailed options for regulation. This will allow any regulations to be introduced once the policy has been finalised, ensuring that they are beneficial and strike the right balance. The Government’s amendments have been welcomed by the sector, including Shelter, which said in its blog of 5 April:

“Put simply, they tabled a life-saving amendment”,

which is,

“a striking signal from the Government that they are serious about tackling rogue landlords and poor conditions”.

Amendment 33 would introduce requirements for landlords to organise regular electrical safety tests in their rental properties. As I have already stated, we have tabled an amendment to create an enabling power which would allow the Secretary of State to set requirements for electrical safety through secondary legislation at a later date. It will allow further research to be conducted and ensure that the requirements are balanced and beneficial to the sector as a whole. Should our amendment be approved, it will give us the time fully to understand all the potential impacts and assess all options.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

The Minister referred to “a later date”. Can we be given some idea as to the timescale? When are we likely to see the secondary legislation?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said, we want some time to assess all the options, but I will try to come back to the noble Lord with a clearer timescale—I do not have one immediately to hand.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Can we be assured that there will be regulations dealing with this matter? Can we have that assurance at least?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Yes, that is the Government’s intention.

In addition, putting the regulatory provisions on the face of the Bill would prevent them being changed, should they be found not to work effectively in practice, and further primary legislation would then be required. The Government believe that regulations such as those proposed are better made by secondary legislation so that they can be amended more easily should that be necessary. It is important to ensure that any regulation of electrical safety can be kept up to date.

Amendment 84 would define electrical safety standards for the purposes of this legislation as standards regarding both the installations for the supply of electricity, and electrical fixtures, fittings or appliances provided by the landlord. Any requirements introduced for electrical safety standards in private sector properties will be based on the findings of our committed further research.

Amendments 86 and 88 would mean that any regulations would require someone who is “competent” to carry out any necessary checks or produce any required certification, instead of someone who is “qualified”. Electrical safety is a very technical and potentially dangerous area, so it is important that the person who conducts any checks or produces any documentation has the necessary skills and experience to do so. This will be defined through any regulations and we believe that the term “qualified” allows for this.

Amendments 90 and 91 would allow requirements to be set for landlords to produce a certificate or a condition report, or both, instead of just a certificate. The amendments are unnecessary. A certificate will be defined through any regulations and will ensure that any documents provided are sufficient to tell the tenants that the property is safe and meets the required standards.

Amendments 83, 85, 87 and 89 would require the Secretary of State to introduce regulations for electrical safety in the private rented sector regardless of any of our findings from further work and discussions with stakeholders. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, and others have talked about the difference between “must” and “may”. “Must” precludes any discussion with stakeholders; “may” allows us to design the way forward as part of our research. It would not be appropriate to pre-empt the results of our planned further research. Any introductions must be balanced and will be determined following extensive investigations of the effects of such requirements and further engagement with the sector.

I hope that the steps I have set out show the importance of these amendments and the Government’s commitment to protecting tenants. As I have said, we intend to bring regulations forward. With these assurances in mind, I ask that the government amendments be approved and that noble Lords do not press their Amendments 33 and 83 to 91.