Green Deal (Qualifying Energy Improvements) (Amendment) Order 2014

Lord Grantchester Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for her introduction to the order before the Committee today. On this side, we are very happy to support the Green Deal and all that it seeks to achieve to improve the energy efficiency of the UK’s housing stock. However, we urge the Government to do better. In the past, the Minister has side-stepped my requests for the Government to share with us their measure of success for the uptake of Green Deal plans. In the context of her extolling the numbers to date, is she able to tell us the date, on a projection forward, when the Government would identify the Green Deal programme as having been a success?

The measure before the Committee today is merely technical, in extending by two the measures that could be taken up under a Green Deal plan: namely, circulatory pumps and storage wastewater heat recovery devices attached to baths and showers. I am happy to support the order and agree that it is good to be able to make more measures available that will improve energy efficiency further.

In the debate on the order in the other place, it was mentioned that householders must now have two items to qualify for a cashback contribution. Will the Minister clarify that householders can still proceed with only one measure in their plan—they will just not qualify for cashback—or is the level of expenditure also important? The Minister might argue that this is sensible to drive forward the ambition for home energy efficiency improvements, but might imposing supplementary qualifying standards have the effect of reducing uptake? I appreciate the information given by the Minister on further measures to improve uptake. Will her department be monitoring the effects on uptake once these are introduced?

There was widespread concern about the cost of finance under the funding provisions at the inception of the Green Deal. While the introduction and extension of cashback measures may be a reaction to the slow uptake, can the Minister say who provides the cash for cashback and whether the department has plans to review the terms of finance from the Green Deal Finance Company? Will the Government be reassessing the total amount that could be financed under the Green Deal, especially in relation to the addition of these two measures today, and indeed any further measures once they are introduced?

We are a little anxious that the plethora of measures under the Green Deal may be adding unnecessary complexity to the scheme, but endorse the order before the Committee today.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to my noble friend and the noble Lord for their supportive remarks. I reassure my noble friend that we are constantly reviewing the process, whether internally or externally with industry and more widely. That is because this programme is the first of its kind in the world and, therefore, as we learn how to better streamline some processes or make available information so that consumers can engage much more fully, we want to ensure that the process is responding outwards so that we get as much uptake as possible.

My noble friend is absolutely right. I have just looked at the grammar and I think that the grammar might be tweaked slightly. I will ensure that I take that back to those who put it in there in the first place.

The noble Lord opposite had several questions, as always, on this very simple order. If I do not pick up all his questions, I promise to write to him. He asked what success would look like. He is aware that these are still very early days in the programme, but I have indicated the figures that are now beginning to emerge. Of course, success will take many forms, so it would be wrong for us to put in place a real target, but an aspiration would be to have possibly around 1 million households adopting some of these measures by 2015. I add the caveat that we may not know about the take-up of some measures which have been financed through a different route. I am looking for inspiration from the officials behind me as regards other responses. If they are not forthcoming, I will have to write to the noble Lord on those responses.

The noble Lord also asked about cashback and whether it constituted support through subsidy. He is, of course, aware of the golden rule which is in place to protect consumers, so that, whatever they pay, they will make savings. Overall, I judge that the noble Lord supports this order although he will continue to question and challenge what the Government are doing, which is absolutely right. Does he wish to ask me another question, given that I have failed to answer the others?

[Lord Grantchester]

I merely wished to tease from the Minister whether cashback was a subsidy or part of the golden rule. Could people’s bills be larger at a later stage because they had received some cash savings upfront?

[Baroness Verma]

No, my Lords. As the noble Lord is aware, the golden rule is very strict. The cashback is the incentive which should encourage people to put measures in place given that the savings which flow from that will count towards the cost of installing the measures.

I will need to look at some of the questions that the noble Lord has raised. I hope that he is reasonably satisfied with my response. I commend the order to the Committee.