Renters’ Rights Bill

Lord Hacking Excerpts

Thursday 15th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, I shall contribute very briefly to the debate on this important amendment. I say at the beginning that I defer to no one in my admiration for the noble Lord, Lord Bird, and his heroic battle over many years to raise the issue of homelessness and those less fortunate people who do not have access to good housing. Sometimes, you come upon an amendment and you have to make a decision between your heart and your head. Your heart is very much taken with the sincerity of the noble Lord’s argument about the need to be fair—principally to tenants, but also to landlords—in the way you put legislation together.

I absolutely and fully take that view, but the noble Lord will understand that one of the reasons I do not support his amendment is that the Government, rightly or wrongly, have brought the Bill to this stage. I believe that Section 21 will have unintended consequences. It will reduce the amount of rental stock, and mean that people who own capital will sell it to other people who own capital—landlords—and they will not put that property back on the market for those in the most desperate need, mainly young working families, but also others in the market. The noble Lord will know—it is a wider issue, I accept—that rent controls very rarely work, whether it is in Barcelona, New York, Scotland or other places in the world. So that is the head part. On the heart part, I absolutely agree with what he is saying.

My point is that the Government have reached this juncture, and we are about to go into Report, the Bill is going to happen and there is a consensus, whether I like it or not. Given that we have some enduring concerns about court capacity and the ability of the court system to deal with any concomitant legislation which might arise from the Bill—which will become an Act in the not-too-distant future—I feel that his amendment, while extremely well-meaning and very sincere, will not help deliver what we want, which is fairness and equity for tenants and landlords. It is only on that basis that I respectfully say that I do not support the amendment, and I suspect that the Government will take a similar view. I applaud the noble Lord for everything that he has done in raising these very important issues over many years.

[Lord Hacking (Lab)]

My Amendment 281 has not been formally called, but if it is the wish of the House, I will address it. The other amendments, Amendments 279 and 280, have already been debated.

I was rather surprised to be asked again to declare my interests, because I have done so on several occasions already during the passage of the Bill. Oh, I am now being released. Anyway, my interests are disclosed in the register.

I therefore move on to a very responsible role that the noble Lord, Lord Bird, and I have, and that is of moving the last group of amendments in this Committee. It has been a long journey to get to this point, involving a lot of hard work by many Members of the House, but none more so than my noble friend the Minister, who has worked extremely hard throughout all the Committee sittings.

As usual, the noble Lord, Lord Bird, gave a very spirited speech. He spoke with great passion. It is always delightful to hear him, and I welcome him back. He was not here last night but he has given the spirited speech today. I am afraid that I do not agree with his rather simplistic description of the Conservative Party as running their policies based on baddie tenants, or that my party is running policies on baddie landlords. I know from debates in the House and discussions with the Minister that there has been a great effort by my party to produce a Bill which is fair and balanced. I am looking at the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, but she is not quite coming with me on this proposition. However, I believe that my noble friend the Minister largely has achieved that.

We have heard the noble Lord’s reasons for different commencement dates under the Bill. All my amendments go to Clause 145, on commencement. I have tabled Amendments 281, 287, 288 and 289. They all seek to give more time for the commencement of certain parts of the Bill. I draw attention to Amendment 288, which seeks to give more time, and different times for new tenancies, suggesting increasing the times to six months and, for existing tenancies, 12 months.

This is a problem that has been presented to me by estate agents. We all should understand how impactful this Bill is. Clause 1 of the Bill states that it applies to all tenancies—existing tenancies and new tenancies. In so far as it applies to existing tenancies, it applies to a great number of tenancies that are fixed term, many of which are shorthold. My wife and I use a 12-month fixed-term tenancy.

Estate agents have now got a very different role. Concerning new tenancies, that is okay. A new tenancy will be set up as a periodic tenancy with, ab initio, a new tenant. However, the existing tenancies produce different work for the estate agent. Under the present system of shorthold tenancies, the agent contacts the tenant and the landlord about three months before the expiration of the tenancy and checks whether the tenant wants to go for another period of tenancy and whether the landlord is agreeable to that. He also checks the position on the amount of rent. I do not know, and neither do many estate agents, what the new requirements will be. Is it proper for the estate agent to contact the tenant and ask, “How much longer do you want?” It is a periodic tenancy; there is no end date. Would it be proper for the estate agent to then engage the tenancy on the amount of rent? These are difficult decisions that have to be made.

In this modern age, these things have to be set up with software and the like, which is why I am asking my noble friend the Minister to give more time. All that has been asked of me, which I am now asking of noble Lords and, more directly, the Minister, is this: can we have more time, so that all the right procedures are set up and it does not end up being a scrambled egg?

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, I rise briefly on this group, which concerns commencement. I particularly thank the noble Lords, Lord Hacking and Lord Bird, for ensuring that this debate took place, and the noble Lord, Lord Deben, for his wisdom and experience in implementation. I know that my noble friend Lady Thornhill will regret not being here for day 7 of the Committee but, as she explained to the House last night, she had an appointment that she could not change, because this day was unexpected. I add my words of thanks to everyone who has been here all the way through these seven days of Committee. I feel that it has been a quality experience and debate. In particular, I thank the Minister.

There is no doubt that the central aim of this Bill, the long-overdue abolition of Section 21, must be delivered swiftly. This abolition will ensure that renters no longer live under the threat of no-fault evictions. This was a promise that the last Government failed to deliver over a shocking six-year period. Indeed, we have already heard the devastating consequence of that broken promise, with over 120,000 households served with no-fault eviction notices since it was first made in 2019, when the noble Baroness, Lady May of Maidenhead, was Prime Minister.

[Lord Hacking (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness. This should be directed also to the noble Lord, Lord Bird. As I read in Clause 1 of the Bill that all existing tenancies are made periodic tenancies, that must involve the ceasing of the use of Section 21.

[Lord Cromwell (CB)]

That is what the noble Baroness is saying.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bird (CB)]

Unfortunately, I was not in a position to sit up last night or the night before because I have a full-time job. Yesterday, I was in Cardiff working with people in the Government there. We had a big event around the Big Issue. It was wonderful to be there and to be given the opportunity, I hope, to work with the Welsh Parliament on the idea of social housing, social justice and all that. So I hope noble Lords will forgive me for not being here last night to see all their noble work.

I want to say a few things. I think one of the real problems is that people do not understand the role of a tenant. They know the role of a landlord: the landlord owns a piece of property, and they rent it out to somebody. But the role of the tenant over the last 50 years has been to enrich the landlord. If you look at what has happened to the property market over the last 40 or 50 years, the role of the tenant has been to make sure that the landlord gets richer and richer, because we know the way the property market has been going. It has been going in a direction where people can buy a house in one decade—my ex-wife did so—and sell it later in the decade for maybe two or three times as much. The landlord would often have done not much more than rent the property out and keep it going.

[Lord Hacking (Lab)]

That is not true.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

I am telling the noble Lord that, from my experience, it is. From my experience, what has happened is that tenants have made a very large section of the population who are small landlords much wealthier.