Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments and / or reasons
Thursday 10th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for reminding us of some of the background with which we deal when we are presented with this Bill. I also thank my noble friend Lord Lansley. His reference to relevant EU law takes us back to pause and reflect on this Bill. As the Minister will know, it was greeted from these Benches in the other place as a bad Bill—a Trojan horse Bill. As my noble friend explained, the Bill does a lot more behind the scenes than appears on the surface and does so through secondary legislation.

I thought it might be helpful to remind ourselves, as indeed the House of Commons reminded itself, that the highly prestigious Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee of this House took a view on the Bill. The Minister will remember that he had a special meeting with the committee to try to convince it that it was wrong. I repeat its view, because it is particularly relevant to the point raised by my noble friend and referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. After the meeting with the Minister, the committee said:

“We remain of the view that … the delegation to Ministers of law-making powers in this Bill involves legislative power shifting to an unacceptable extent from the legislature to the Executive”.


It continued that

“the Government have failed to provide a convincing justification for the inclusion of skeleton clauses in this Bill that give Ministers such wide powers to re-write in regulations the substance of the regulatory regimes for products and metrology”.

From these Benches, we see the Bill as a terrible step back and a Trojan horse because it will tie us to EU red tape over which we will have no say. Through the Bill, the Government will be able to restrict Britain’s innovators with overburdensome regulations which are not in the Bill at the present time but will appear at a later stage.

I recall, because I was a witness, although I did not participate directly, that it was the dynamic duo of my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom and the noble Lord, Lord Fox, who came in to save the British pint. I pay tribute to them both. We very much hope that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, will be back with us as quickly as possible, fully restored. He did us all a great service acting in concert with my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom.

I worry about this sweeping use of Henry VIII powers and I hope that the Minister will reflect on these comments. I refer him once again—he will know that I have done this many times before—to the most marvellous lecture delivered by the Attorney- General, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hermer KC, on 14 October 2024 entitled “The Rule of Law in an Age of Populism”, in which he laid out a clear path that government should follow. The Government have certainly transgressed that in bringing forward this Bill with so many Henry VIII powers and so much detail that is still to be decided, admittedly after consultation, by secondary legislation.

I hope that in his remarks the Minister will not only respond to the important points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, but will put into context exactly what the timeline will be for the extensive use—it is rightly extended to the devolved territories—of these delegated powers. What is the timeline? What can we look forward to? Can we be assured that there will be proper consultation and that this House will have an opportunity of giving its view on each and every step taken under this Bill?

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I wonder if I might gently intervene. The noble Lord was not present, but my noble friend Lord Fox and others from our Benches reminded the noble Lord, Lord Epsom, and others from those Benches that this Bill was drafted by the previous Government with the Henry VIII powers as they appear in the Bill today. While I understand that times have moved on and seats have changed, much of the Bill that we see now is the one that had been drafted for the previous Government and was delayed because of the general election.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

I am happy to respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, who referred to Lord Epsom rather than to my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I am sorry: the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

She is also under a misunderstanding. I was very proud to chair the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. If she had done her homework, she would have seen that I led the opposition to the previous Government’s attempt to try to pass secondary legislation powers that would not be subject to proper scrutiny in this House. I do not want to engage in party politics, unlike the noble Baroness, but I think that it is wrong for Governments to do this. I just wish that we still had some of our previous Members, particularly Lord Judge, who taught me that whatever the complexion of the Government, Governments should not overreach themselves by abolishing legislation through secondary legislation.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. I very carefully talked about his predecessor on this Bill. I think that the work that he and his Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee did was admirable and I quoted from it frequently.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

Thank you.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all the noble Lords who have contributed this afternoon to this short debate. I do not want to open the whole debate that we have gone through in Committee and on Report. Some of the points that the noble Lord brought up on delegated powers and so on were debated at length. On the noble Lord’s point about the DPRRC and, to an extent, the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, we understand the concerns raised by the DPRRC and noble Lords regarding the need for adequate scrutiny of the powers in the Bill. We would genuinely like to thank them for their engagement on this issue.

As introduced, the Bill provided for new regulations in a range of areas to be subject to the affirmative procedure. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about the timeframe. I have been told by the officials that, the minute the Bill gets Royal Assent, a number of regulations will have to be placed before the House, to do with noise and various other aspects of regulation. My officials also tell me that, in any one year, there will not be more than six to 10 regulations, so we will not get an avalanche of regulation. This includes emergency powers and widening the scope of any existing criminal offences. We have heard the concerns raised and have now gone further to provide additional parliamentary scrutiny in those areas.

As I mentioned in my opening speech, we have brought forward an amendment to correct a drafting error, and we heard in the contributions of the noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett and Lady Brinton, about the whole principle. The Bill is not the end; it is the start of many things. As I mentioned in Committee and on Report, there will be regulations, and noble Lords will be able to debate this through the affirmative procedure. It is a continuation, with more regulations to come, taking into account some of those that we have to update.

During the debates on this legislation in this House, scrutiny of the regulations was an important issue and one that the Government not only recognised but sought to address. I place on record my thanks for the work of all noble Lords to improve the scrutiny arrangements within the Bill. That has improved the Bill, and it is a testament to the role of this House in the scrutiny of legislation. Noble Lords have undoubtedly made this a better Bill.

Amendment 1 specifically is an important amendment. It demonstrates that, by listening carefully, engaging sincerely and acting in good faith—as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned—the United Kingdom Government and the devolved Governments can come together around shared solutions. This legislation provides a new framework for product regulation and metrology that is agile, future-facing and tailored to the needs of the United Kingdom. This amendment will make sure that the framework works for all parts of the United Kingdom.

As we reach the end of the Bill’s passage, I personally extend my sincere thanks to all noble Lords who contributed to the debates and who have been so supportive of me taking the Bill through this House. These contributions have shown this House at its very best. I give thanks for the engagement of the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe, for His Majesty’s Opposition, and the noble Lord, Lord Fox, who made an immense contribution. I wish him well; I spoke to him earlier this week, and he said that he might come here in a week’s time or thereabouts. I look forward to welcoming him back to the Chamber.

I am sure that all noble Lords will be more than willing to have a pint with me—not a schooner—to celebrate the passage of this legislation. With that, I commend the amendment to the House.