European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Lawson of Blaby Excerpts

Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 12th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

Clause 7 is designed to address identified deficiencies post Brexit where our existing clinical trials regime may include references to EU bodies and institutions, but those would no longer be correct or competent and an amendment would be necessary. In response to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, it goes back to what may be, and I hope will be, a very positive outcome to the negotiations. In that case, many of these fears will be assuaged, but I cannot second guess the negotiations and I cannot give premature guarantees that might be completely inappropriate.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think that I am the only Member of the Committee who is listening with increasing bewilderment to my noble friend’s reply to this amendment, particularly her constant references to negotiations. This is not an issue for negotiation, this is an issue where we have agreed to the new directive and there is nothing to negotiate; rather, we will implement it in the best and most effective way we can. Is she suggesting that if we say we wish to implement the directive, the European Union will come back to us and say, “No, you can’t”?

[Baroness Goldie]

With the greatest respect to my noble friend, it is a matter for the negotiations. We cannot remain part of the European Medicines Agency unless that is agreed in the negotiations. The other aspects of the regulations, if they are subsequently enacted, will require us to adjust and adapt our UK law to be consistent with whatever the regulation provides.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Lawson of Blaby Excerpts

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 18th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may correct briefly my noble friend who has just sat down. When he referred to what I had said, I do not think he was showing great prophetic qualities; I think he intended to refer to my noble friend Lord Lamont.

I will be brief because I know the Minister wishes to reply to this debate very soon. Let me make just one or two comments. First, this whole thing has had something of an Alice in Wonderland nature. The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, whom I have known for many years and whose company I enjoy, said that nobody said during the campaign that leaving the European Union meant leaving the customs union. That is complete nonsense, with great respect to the noble Lord. I was, for a time, chairman of Vote Leave, which was recognised by the Electoral Commission as the official leave campaign, and we made it absolutely clear that leaving the European Union meant leaving the customs union and the single market. It was not just us. On the other side of the debate, the then Prime Minister and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer made it explicit that leaving the European Union would mean leaving the customs union and the single market, so it is nonsense to say that this was not put clearly to the British people.

This is really a political debate. I can see that there are political reasons for wanting to remain in the EU. I accept that. I think the political reasons for leaving the European Union are very much stronger, but it is absolute nonsense to suggest that there is an economic case for what is being put forward in this amendment. Quite apart from the political problem my noble friend Lord Lamont and others on our side of the debate have pointed out, what is being proposed is that we should not be in the European Union but should be within the customs union. In other words, we should have a quasi-colonial status. That is not something that I or, I think, the British people as a whole will give houseroom to.

What is even more nonsensical is the idea that one cannot trade without a trade agreement. I hope we can conclude trade agreements, but one can trade without them. The rest of the world is not in the European Union. Most of the world does an enormous amount of trade with the European Union. Most of the world is growing a great deal faster, which is rather more important, than the European Union is. If the customs union and the single market were so wonderful, the European Union would be the most dynamic part of the world economy, which it certainly is not. As it is, our trade with the rest of the world is growing far faster than our trade with the European Union. It is not merely greater than our trade with the European Union, but it is growing faster. Indeed, to some extent, my noble friend Lord Patten gave the game away when he pointed to German success in exports to China. There is no trade agreement involved in that. It is a fallacy to believe that bilateral trade agreements are as important as trade. It is trade that matters, and within trade it is the Word Trade Organization system that is overwhelmingly important.

This is basically a political argument. I accept that there are arguments on both sides. I happen to feel that the political arguments for leaving the European Union are greater than the political arguments for remaining in. This is a political argument dressed up as a trade argument, and the trade argument has no substance whatever. I therefore urge the House to reject what is in essence a wrecking amendment.