House of Lords: Reform

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, it was Oliver Cromwell, I think, who abolished the Chamber in 1649. It is not a particularly good example for the Government to follow; although, to give the Government credit, they have produced an alternative way forward. I go along with the view that reform is needed, but not change and reform through an elected House. What we need is a substantially improved appointed House. That is why I am so glad to follow the noble Lord, Lord Steel, with his proposal for a statutory appointments commission, where we would have a House reduced in size, appointments for a certain length of time—therefore a retirement system—and proposals for improved working practices, which we will be debating on Monday. It is not a question of “No change”, it is a question of “What change?” in my view. That seems to be the mood of the House.

We have heard from many noble Lords. We have had evolutionary change over the past 100 years, but we have lost our way since 1999 when we had no coherent alternative following the abolition of hereditaries. You would expect me to defend the Government’s position and welcome the fact that they propose having 20 per cent appointed Cross-Benchers. However, the strength of the Cross Benches is that they are relentlessly united in being divided. We pride ourselves on our rationale of complete independence and the expertise that some of us can offer—although I am not speaking for myself. If anyone thinks we are capable of being whipped, they are off their heads. Anyone who has attended a meeting of Cross-Benchers will see that it is worse than trying to herd cats. That is the whole point of the Cross Benches. What I regret very much is that it should just be confined to the Cross Benches being appointed. I see no earthly point in that because, if we go back to the first principles about the purpose and function of the House that we have just been debating so fully with the last two or three speakers, the whole purpose must be to have a fully appointed House. We surely determine what the composition should be based on that. Paragraphs 6, 7, 8 and 9 in the early part of the White Paper all confirm, absolutely clearly, that the Government believe there should be no change whatever in the role of the House of Lords: it should remain a revising Chamber, complementary to the other place—which would have primacy—and acting as a longstop.

The Joint Committee has a formidable task and some challenging questions to ask. I hope it is going to take whatever time it needs to determine the answer to these questions—how will an elected Chamber be affected in terms of the constitution; and what will it mean to the relationship between the Houses, if the Government want the relationship to remain the same? How will it affect the system of accountability, which is at present undivided—with the other place being the primary source of influence and power—if we move to a completely different system of accountability that would be shared with this elected Chamber? Then there were the arguments about legitimacy. I was very proud for 21 years to be an elected representative in the other place—legitimate for that particular purpose for that Chamber. However, I am equally privileged to be appointed to this Chamber, playing a role that is different but equally legitimate.

How will an elected House improve scrutiny, if we do away with the knowledge, the expertise and the wisdom of experience? The danger is that the powers of patronage will be strengthened rather than weakened. The power of the Whips will strengthen. Of course, we have to have a party-political structure in this country, but it is a time too when trust in Government and in Parliament has been in decline, which needs to be reversed. Many Members of the other place come to that place without any experience of other walks of life. In recent years the trend has been that they work in the party or in local government and they have limited experience. This Chamber balances that. As a former Minister, I would have found answering questions and debates in this Chamber a far more formidable prospect than I ever did in the other place. That says a lot for the strength of this Chamber.

It is not as though we are lacking elected representatives in this country. If you take the Commons, the Scottish Parliament and the Assemblies of Wales and Northern Ireland, there are just under 1,000 elected representatives. If you add to that the elected mayors, the elected local councillors and the MEPs, it is not as though we are underwhelmed with democratic elections in this country. The value of this House in counterbalancing the other is that you can guarantee more easily that an appointed Chamber will have a better cross-representation of this country in terms of gender, regions, ethnic minorities and professions, in a way that an elected Chamber cannot guarantee.

I conclude by saying that the British way of doing things, in a pragmatic, incremental and evolutionary fashion, is the best. In the words of Burke:

“A disposition to preserve, and an ability to improve”.

What is the point of saying, “Hooray, we are democratically legitimate” if, in the process, we can no longer so effectively fulfil the function that this Government rightly want this Chamber to fulfil? I end with an incentive to this Government: if they are prepared to drop these proposals and go for a reformed, appointed House, I will volunteer to retire. Surely that is an offer they cannot refuse.