Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2010

Lord Moonie Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Craig of Radley]

My Lords, I support this order. As a member of the Armed Forces, I have always recognised the primacy of Parliament over us, and it is right and proper that the order should be placed. The Minister mentioned the next review of the Armed Forces Act. I hope that it may then be possible to have a further look at the impact of the Human Rights Act on the Armed Forces and their discipline because it is quite clear from the passage of time that problems arise here. I do not have a solution to how they can be dealt with. When the Human Rights Bill was being passed, I attempted to have the Armed Forces excluded on the basis that they, uniquely, have other Acts, including this one, to do things and to respond to orders in a way that is quite unlike any other member of the public, and that can at times conflict with the strict application of the Human Rights Act, as we have seen. However, I support this Motion.

[Lord Moonie]

I rise briefly as a former Minister for Defence who was lucky enough to take two Bills through the House. This was quite rare: it was bad enough getting one, but to have two was an excessive pleasure. I rise to support this order and to say how important it is, at a time when our Armed Forces are under such pressure, that this Act retains support on all sides of the House and that the defence of the realm is governed by all-party consensus, as has been the case in recent years. If any problems arise with the Act, it would be good to get advance notice of them in this spirit of co-operation. I say in passing that, had it not been for my vehemence in support of the Armed Forces Act, I doubt that it would have been brought to the House by 2006, because there was every chance that it could have taken another three or four years. However, I am delighted to see that it is working well.

[Lord Borrie]

My Lords, I intervene briefly. Perhaps the Minister is surprised at the greater interest in this than he imagined might be the case. My own interest goes back 50 years-plus to my national service, when I had a lot to do with courts martial. I did a little background research, as did the Minister for his work today. The idea of a standing army being a threat to the populace in the 20th and 21st centuries, as compared with the 17th century, has always struck me as amazing and extraordinary, yet we have gone on, year by year—occasionally I have attended the appropriate proceedings in this House—with the order that allows a standing army to continue for another year.

Now that we have a coalition Government, of which I am somewhat suspicious from the opposition side, I am anxious about even suggesting that we should have anything different in the way of a thorough re-examination of our constitution, of those of other countries, of how they manage and so on, because, although I trust the Minister as an excellent man of high repute, I do not trust the coalition to come up with something ideal. Therefore, at present, I would rather the Minister did not pursue his researches too far and did only the minimum to secure the changes needed for another year.