Coronavirus Act 2020: Temporary Provisions

Lord Morris of Aberavon Excerpts

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I too congratulate my old friend the noble and learned Lord, Lord Clarke of Nottingham. I have enjoyed going to rugby matches with him. I also welcome my noble friend Lady Clark.

This is an important debate. I regard it as important that there should be parliamentary control over the Government’s actions in this unprecedented situation. We are steering the ship of state in uncharted waters and I fear that there is a huge amount of guesswork in the Government’s proposals, which are changing all the time and, I regret, not winning so far. In addition to their reliance on scientific evidence, I am sure that some parliamentarians can make a major contribution. If the science is constant, it should be the same evidence for each of the four nations of the United Kingdom. People are puzzled, particularly those living on the borders, about why a greater effort has not been made to have uniformity in decision-making in the United Kingdom. Why are there frequently small or marginal differences between the decisions on this matter in each of the countries? Is it stubbornness in one of the Governments or the lack of will to heed the wake-up call for Whitehall that, in health matters, there are at least four legislatures in the United Kingdom?

I know that the Prime Minister has recently discussed progress with the devolved First Ministers, but why has such a meeting taken so long? Given the situation we find ourselves in, I would have thought it imperative that frequent and regular discussions should have taken place at the highest level between each of the First Ministers.

I regret that there has been no clear guidance for universities, independent though they are, about allowing students to return to campuses only to be incarcerated. When I hear that some universities are proposing to provide only online teaching for three weeks, it is as plain as a pikestaff that this could be done in the comfort of a student’s own home. I speak as one who in the past was the chancellor of a university for 12 years.

Has a lack of decision-making been influenced by the desire of some universities to collect the fees? I am glad that this year, none of my grandchildren is incarcerated in student accommodation. If this is what is called university experience, I would prefer not to have it.

Parliament in its original meaning is a place where you talk—I paraphrase. Over the centuries, Parliament has met in two Houses. I have already expressed my concern about your Lordships’ House’s ability to govern its own procedures, including membership attendance. I have been assured that we are enabled to do so, but the reality is that the wider Executive, in the form of the usual channels, who have done a valiant job in deciding who is to speak and how many, are controlling every movement of this House. Cromwell would have smiled. There must be a limit to this. I raise only in passing my concern that this is a grey area. For the moment, what is imperative is that there should be uninhibited and repeated debates in this House and in the Commons on the way forward.