BBC Charter

Lord Patten of Barnes Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Patten of Barnes (Con)]

In what I suspect some would not regard as the happiest days in our island story, a couple of things we can take comfort from are, first, that we have world-class universities in this country—some of the greatest universities in the world—and secondly that we have almost certainly the best television and radio companies, with the BBC at their heart. I declare an interest straight away: that I was chairman of the BBC Trust for two years. It was not the most comfortable or happiest job I have ever done, for reasons to which I might return, but it was always an honour to be associated with the BBC, which is such a central part of our national conversation, an enormous part of the civic life of this country and admired around the world as a very great broadcaster.

I note in passing that even at the height of the awful events surrounding Jimmy Savile’s activities, the BBC was still regarded as the fourth institution in the country in which people took the greatest pride, just after Her Majesty, the Army and the National Health Service. It regularly scores on public trust so much more than any of its overwrought critics in the written media as to be embarrassing—which is, I suspect, one reason why they never report it.

At the heart of the new draft charter, which is a great improvement on what we were led to expect we might get from the previous Secretary of State—I congratulate the new Secretary of State on the progress she has made—is the laying to rest of the BBC Trust. Perhaps I can say a word without being too defensive about that. Until 2007 the BBC’s independence was defended and protected pretty well over the years by a chairman and board. If noble Lords look at the history, they were a pretty good cross-section of the British establishment in all its exotic tribalism. But it worked and they defended the independence of the institution.

Then, in the years before 2007, the BBC made a mistake. It got wrong in the run-up to the Iraq war pretty well the only thing the Government at the time got right. It was punished for it by a change in the governance at the BBC. The old board was scrapped and in its place was established the BBC Trust as a regulator, which it had from time to time to cheer, when it was allowed. When I became chairman of the BBC Trust I was told that I could call myself the chairman, but that I was not really the chairman. Indeed, the director-general was allowed to establish a board himself, which acted in parallel with the board of the BBC Trust.

The trust did a lot of good work on distinctiveness, quality of programming and commercial issues, but we sometimes made the mistake of drilling down too deep. On the other side, the executive regularly hid behind the skirts of the trust when things went wrong. We could have made the whole thing work, perhaps with the present director-general, who has done such a very good job, but there was a real problem. Very often we were dealing with issues and problems that had been created under the old board. We regularly found it difficult to find out whoever was responsible when things went wrong. There was a sort of Macavity principle: Macavity was never actually there. It was probably inevitable that we should see this change in governance. I wish the new system well and those who run it the very best of luck, working, as I said, with a great broadcasting institution.

I have one or two points briefly to make about the charter. First, I agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Birt, said about the licence fee settlement—not just the finance on the table but the way it was done. It was a scandal to do it like that and I hope that in future, the licence fee can be settled after a process of public consultation, not least consultation with the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Select Committee here said that the present system was “unacceptable”. So it is, and it really must be changed in the future.

The balance of the board is a great improvement on what we had before. Perhaps it would make some sense if the senior independent directors were elected by the board on its own, without the Government getting involved in the process.

I have reservations about allowing the NAO and the Comptroller and Auditor-General to determine in looking at BBC expenditure what is creative, what is editorial and what is not. I think there is a tendency on the part of individuals in that institution to ambulance-chase. They should not be allowed to determine what is an editorial matter or a creative matter if the BBC itself disagrees. There should be some arbitral process along the lines that exists for the Bank of England.

I agree with the noble Lord that it is ludicrous to talk about transparency regarding what “Strictly Come Dancing” presenters are paid when there is no transparency regarding how the licence fee settlement is established in the first place. There is no public interest whatever in knowing what Gary Lineker is paid. It is merely a rather unpleasant, populist gesture towards some of our tabloids and will probably lead to pushing up talent pay rather than the opposite.

While I am grateful to the Secretary of State for improving the arrangements for the BBC in the future and while I wish it the greatest good fortune—I am sure that it will not be obliged to publish lists of all the people born in other EU countries who work for it; I am sure that that will be put on one side, even though we live in these days in which we are open for business but closed to foreigners. The new arrangements are an improvement, but I think the BBC is very often a great deal better than we deserve.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

No, I did not say that. I said that the agreement says the memorandum of understanding should contain a dispute resolution mechanism. However, to take the position of the noble Lord, Lord Foster, what happens if that cannot be agreed? First, I am saying that if they cannot agree the memorandum of understanding, the DCMS and the Secretary of State herself if necessary will, if you like, bang heads together to make sure they can. But the noble Lord, Lord Foster, alluded to what happens if even that does not work. Then I am saying that the statutory basis on which the NAO goes in is what they will rely on. Having said that, it still cannot deal with editorial matters, but the problem is: what is an editorial matter?

[Lord Patten of Barnes]

Does that mean that, when the final decision is taken, the NAO’s Comptroller and Auditor-General will be the final arbiter—that the NAO will make the decision even if the Secretary of State sympathises hugely with the BBC?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is not a question of the Secretary of State sympathising or not on that. The only role I mentioned for the Secretary of State is making sure that the memorandum of understanding, which includes a dispute resolution mechanism, should be signed and agreed. But at the last resort, yes, the Comptroller and Auditor-General will be able to do his job using his statutory powers if the dispute resolution has not been agreed.