Employment Rights Bill

Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 27th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town (Lab)]

My Lords, like buses, you wait for one nepo Peer to come along—

I rise to speak in support of this Bill and refer the House to my registered interests. First, I congratulate all those who have made their first contributions today. The House is blessed with four eloquent and distinguished new Members and it is a particular joy to be joined by my noble friends Lady Berger and Lady Gray, who acquitted themselves so well, and I look forward to getting to know the noble Baroness, Lady Cash, and the noble Lord, Lord Young.

As an employer and entrepreneur, and through my work with business improvement districts and workspace provision, I have seen first-hand both the challenges and responsibilities of employing people. Good businesses do more than create jobs. They foster opportunity, stability and prosperity in our communities. For most responsible employers, the principles behind this Bill are nothing new. Anyone who has run a business knows that keeping and supporting a great team is a daily concern. Whether it is offering flexibility, ensuring fair treatment or helping staff through difficult times, most employers already do much of what is set out in this Bill—not because they have to but because a happy, motivated team is the foundation of success. Businesses thrive when their people thrive.

That said, rising employment costs are a reality. Businesses have adapted to higher minimum wages, pension auto-enrolment and other well-intentioned interventions, all of which add to the cost of employing people. While these measures bring benefits, they also create pressures, particularly for small businesses, as we have heard. The Government’s impact assessment acknowledges this, but we must be mindful that, if costs rise too far, businesses may turn to automation rather than hiring staff. This is not an argument against the Bill, but a reminder that we should support both employers and employees.

In that spirit, could we do more to improve access to insurance products to help businesses manage employment risks, such as covering statutory sick pay? Such products seem rare to me and it may be worth engaging with those such as the Association of British Insurers to explore better provision in this area. We should also consider practical support for businesses adapting to new employment obligations. Could advisory services or incentives help them implement best practices? A culture of shared responsibility between government, businesses and employees will be the key to ensuring that these measures work in practice as well as in principle.

Ultimately, this Bill strengthens workplace rights in a way that is fair and balanced. It reflects what responsible employers already do, while ensuring that bad practice is tackled, creating a level playing field for all. Businesses that uphold high standards should not be disadvantaged by those who do not and legislation such as this helps to make good employment practices the norm. It is a step forward and I support it.

Employment Rights Bill

Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd June 2025 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town]

132: After Clause 26, insert the following new Clause—
“Independent advisers(1) Section 288 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (restriction on contracting out) is amended as follows—(a) after subsection (4)(c) insert—“(ca) if they are a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or other Professional Body and have been certified in writing by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or, as the case may be, other Professional Body as competent to give advice, or”;(b) after subsection (4B) insert—“(4BA) In subsection (4)(ca) “Professional Body” means any organisation which is authorised by a regulation made by the Secretary of State pursuant to subsection (4BB).(4BB) The Secretary of State may make a regulation or regulations authorising any organisation as a Professional Body for the purposes of this section.(4BC) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (4BB) is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”(2) Section 203 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (restrictions on contracting out) is amended as follows—(a) after subsection (3A)(c) insert—“(ca) if they are a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or other Professional Body and have been certified in writing by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or, as the case may be, other Professional Body as competent to give advice, or”;(b) after subsection (4) insert—“(4A) In subsection (3A)(ca) “Professional Body” means any organisation which is authorised by a regulation made by the Secretary of State pursuant to subsection (4B).(4B) The Secretary of State may make a regulation or regulations authorising any organisation as a Professional Body for the purposes of this section.(4C) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (4B) is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”(3) Section 49 of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 (restrictions on contracting out) is amended as follows—(a) after subsection (5)(c) insert—“(ca) if they are a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or other Professional Body and have been certified in writing by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or, as the case may be, other Professional Body as competent to give advice, or”;(b) after subsection (7) insert—“(7A) In subsection (5)(ca) “Professional Body” means any organisation which is authorised by a regulation made by the Secretary of State pursuant to subsection (7B).(7B) The Secretary of State may make a regulation or regulations authorising any organisation as a Professional Body for the purposes of this section.(7C) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (7B) is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”(4) Section 58 of the Pensions Act 2008 (restrictions on agreements to limit operation) is amended as follows—(a) after subsection (6)(c) insert—“(ca) is a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or other Professional Body and has been certified in writing by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or, as the case may be, other Professional Body as competent to give advice, or”;(b) after subsection (8) insert—“(8A) In subsection (6)(ca) “Professional Body” means any organisation which is authorised by a regulation made by the Secretary of State pursuant to subsection (8B).(8B) The Secretary of State may make a regulation or regulations authorising any organisation as a Professional Body for the purposes of this section.(8C) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (8B) is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”(5) Section 147 of the Equality Act 2010 (qualifying settlement agreement) is amended as follows—(a) after subsection (4)(c) insert—“(ca) a member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or other Professional Body certified in writing by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development or, as the case may be, other Professional Body as competent to give advice;”;(b) after subsection (6) insert—“(6A) In subsection (4)(ca) “Professional Body” means any organisation which is authorised by a regulation made by the Secretary of State pursuant to subsection (6B).(6B) The Secretary of State may make a regulation or regulations authorising any organisation as a Professional Body for the purposes of this section.(6C) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (6B) is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.””Member's explanatory statement
This clause expands the independent advisers who may advise employees and workers on a settlement agreement.

[Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I have tabled Amendment 132 as a probing amendment to highlight some of the concerns from the perspective of small businesses. Amendment 137, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, may perhaps be a different side of the same coin. I refer the House to my register of interests.

The intention behind the amendment is to explore the scope of possible options for better supporting both employees and employers, particularly small employers, who often lack access to in-house HR support, legal expertise or representation from trade unions. This legislation rightly seeks to strengthen workplace protections, and with that comes the need to ensure that small employers are equipped to meet their responsibilities fairly and confidently without being overwhelmed.

A one-size-fits-all approach risks overlooking the structural disadvantages that many small businesses face in navigating employment disputes or resolving workplace issues informally. One concern in this context is the potential for so-called ambulance chasing. I use the phrase cautiously, but it reflects a genuine anxiety among small employers. In the absence of good advice or proper guidance, a small employer may feel compelled to settle a claim, not based on merit, but because the cost, stress and complexity of the legal process makes fighting it feel simply unviable. That can undermine confidence in the system for everyone.

The aim behind the amendment is to consider how we might increase the availability of qualified independent advisers—professionals who can support employees in entering into a settlement agreement with full confidence and understanding, but in a way that is accessible, affordable and proportionate for small businesses too. This could help reduce the number of cases that unnecessarily escalate into formal litigation.

The presence of a well-informed independent adviser can give both parties clarity and reassurance. In such circumstances, access to credible professionals of the kind that organisations like the CIPD can recommend or help bring forward would seem both helpful and sensible. I fully acknowledge the concerns raised by colleagues on these Benches, particularly the risk of diluting the role of unions, especially in larger workplaces, where collective representation plays such an essential role. I value constructive conversations with colleagues and recognise the importance of safeguarding that voice and that function.

At the same time, I believe it important that the voice of business, particularly small business, is heard clearly from these Benches. Too often, the debate around employment rights can polarise into assumptions of employer versus employee or big business versus organised labour. But many of us bring experience from the front lines of running businesses that are small, community based and deeply invested in treating their staff fairly. It is essential that these perspectives are represented not to dilute rights but to ensure that they are designed in a way that is practical and sustainable and that supports good employment outcomes for all.

I also welcome the Government’s broad commitment to improving the enforcement system, including through proposals for the fair work agency and reforms to the tribunal process. These are important developments, and I hope that they lead to a more accessible and efficient workplace landscape for all parties.

Nevertheless, I believe that the specific issues raised here, particularly those that affect small and micro-businesses, merit further reflection. We know that many small employers genuinely want to do the right thing but, without access to the right structures or advice, they may find themselves exposed. That can have an effect on not just the business owner but employees, who may not get the resolution they deserve. Just as we rightly ensure that employees feel heard and protected, those of us with business experience also want to ensure that employers’ concerns are reflected, especially where they lack the infrastructure to manage complex processes alone.

I am happy to withdraw the amendment following the debate and the Minister’s response, but I hope that the reflections it prompts will help shape the implementation of the Bill in ways that are proportionate, inclusive and fair to businesses of all sizes, as well as to the people they employ. I beg to move.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 137 which, as the noble Lord, Lord Pitkeathley, said, is probably the other side of the same coin.

My amendment seeks to expand the statutory right to be accompanied at disciplinary and grievance hearings. As it stands, the law allows workers to be accompanied by only a fellow employee or trade union representative. My Amendment 137—the other side of the coin—would broaden that right to include individuals certified by a recognised professional body as having relevant experience and training in supporting workers through such processes. It also provides for the Secretary of State to regulate which organisations may be authorised as professional bodies for this purpose to ensure that a proper standard is maintained.

At the heart of any disciplinary process is the need for transparency, fairness and due process. This is especially true in the workplace, where livelihoods and the professional reputations of individuals are at stake. Workers should never have to undergo the difficult procedures of disciplinary or grievance hearings alone. The presence of a colleague, union representative or other chosen companion ensures that employees not only are supported but have a safeguard against any unfair treatment or misunderstandings during the process. Not every individual is able to cope with this on their own. Some may well do, but they will need some help.

In fact, the presence of a properly trained professional companion is often the difference between an employee being able to make their case cogently or being denied a fair hearing. The law currently goes some way towards recognising this, but I am afraid that it is increasingly inadequate for the 21st century.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Leong) (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. Before I turn to the amendments, may I wish the noble Lord, Lord Fox, a speedy recovery? I am just sorry that he was not cast in the next “Mission: Impossible”. I wish him a speedy recovery and return to the Committee, as we miss him here as well.

I turn to Amendments 132 and 137. Amendment 132, tabled by my noble friend Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town, seeks to expand the scope of independent advisers who can advise individuals entering into settlement agreements. Settlement agreements in this context are a way in which employers and workers can settle potential claims. I am delighted that the noble Lord, Lord Jackson of Peterborough, had such a great experience with his trade union rep and got a really fair settlement. I hope he was pleased with that experience.

However, it is important that individuals understand the terms and effect of the proposed agreement and its effect on their ability to pursue claims in an employment tribunal. That is why legislation requires individuals to receive advice from a relevant independent adviser. Legislation outlines a range of advisers that can be used, including qualified lawyers and authorised officers of an independent trade union.

My noble friend’s amendment would expand the list of relevant independent advisers to include a certified member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel Development, an association of human resources professionals. This amendment would also give the Secretary of State the power to make regulations to include other professional bodies whose members would also be capable of giving advice.

While I understand that my noble friend has put forward this amendment on behalf of the CIPD, we believe current arrangements are working well and strike the right balance. I appreciate my noble friend’s passion and thank him for his contribution to this debate. We are happy to engage further on this issue at another time, but we do not think this amendment is required.

I now turn to Amendment 137, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, which seeks to expand the right to be accompanied by a certified companion at disciplinary and grievance hearings, as supported by the noble Lord, Lord Ashcombe. The law already provides that, when workers are invited to attend a disciplinary or grievance hearing, they are entitled to bring a companion who is either a fellow worker, an official employed by a trade union or a workplace trade union representative that the union has reasonably certified as having received training in acting as a worker’s companion in disciplinary or grievance hearings. Employers can now allow workers to be accompanied by a companion who does not fall within the above categories. Some workers have a contractual right to be accompanied by persons other than those listed earlier —for instance, a professional support body, a partner, a spouse or a legal representative.

The current law seeks to keep disciplinary and grievance procedures internal to workplaces, given that they are one of the initial steps in resolving tensions in a worker-employer relationship. Expanding the types of organisations that could be involved in representing workers at disciplinary and grievance meetings could lead to these hearings requiring legal representation for both the worker and the employer. This would therefore increase the costs of these hearings and reduce the chances of an amicable outcome. In addition to introducing legal expertise at these hearings, it could also reduce the likelihood of ACAS conciliation or mediation as the next step to resolve a dispute, as legal arguments will have already been made during an internal hearing. This could increase the likelihood of a tribunal claim being made. An amicable solution is, therefore, the fastest way to justice, as set out by my noble friend Lord Barber.

It is unclear where the demand for expanding this right is coming from and which workplaces would benefit. There are, of course, certain organisations, such as those that provide casework and legal services, that would benefit. But, as I have already set out, should an employer wish to nominate an organisation to accompany their workers, they can set this out in the terms and conditions of their workplace.

I therefore ask my noble friend to withdraw Amendment 132.

[Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short but important debate. I appreciate that my amendment may seem controversial to some, not to mention unfeasibly long, but I believe it is vital that the voices of all in the workplace are heard. I am pleased that they have been today. I emphasise that small employers are just as committed to their workforce as larger firms, and they want to attract and retain the best people too. This Bill is, in my view, both pro-worker and pro-business, and we should keep all sides in mind when we shape its final form.

I particularly appreciate the concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Barber of Ainsdale. I reassure him that I do not raise this amendment in the spirit of confrontation, as I am sure he knows, and I am sure these are conversations that we will continue. I know that we both want to achieve the best for all workers. None the less, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 132 withdrawn.