House of Lords: Sittings

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Adonis]

I have a very high opinion of your Lordships and their ability to persuade the House of Commons to do the right thing. There is not much point in our meeting—ever—if we take the view that the opinions we express are going to be rejected by the House of Commons. We are here in this House because we believe we do make a difference, not because we are irrelevant, although if the noble Lord and others think they are irrelevant there are options for them to avoid being a burden on the taxpayer. But that is not the view that I take.

I come back to the serious issue that we are discussing. This is what Mr Heaton-Harris said yesterday is involved in the no-deal preparations which the Cabinet yesterday agreed to intensify because of the likelihood of there being no resolution to the Brexit crisis before us. He said that,

“we have taken further steps to ensure that people and businesses are ready. That has included publishing more than 100 pages of guidance for businesses on processes and procedures at the border in a no-deal scenario; contacting 145,000 businesses that trade with the EU, telling them to start getting ready for no-deal customs procedures; advising hundreds of ports of entry, traders, pharmaceutical firms and other organisations that use the border about the disruption that they might experience so that they can get their supply chains ready; and producing a paper on citizens’ rights”.

It is hard to exaggerate how serious those preparations are outside wartime. The legal arrangements for a no-deal Brexit are still not fully in place. The preparations are a huge expense to the taxpayer and a massive drain on the resources of Whitehall. Mr Heaton-Harris said:

“More than 10,000 civil servants are working on Brexit with a further 5,000 in the pipeline, which will allow us to accelerate our preparation”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/12/18; cols. 879-80.]


I am not sure what it means to be a civil servant in the pipeline of Brexit; none the less, more than 5,000 are in that happy condition. As I say, short of being in a war situation, it is hard to conceive of a more alarming position in which the Government could place the country.

Surely our duty in Parliament is to see that this crisis is resolved as soon as possible. We have an opportunity to do so by meeting earlier rather than later in January. I believe we have a duty to do so. Therefore, I beg to move.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, I shall not answer the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, point by point. I think politicians delude themselves when they believe their own rhetoric, and I am afraid he is a perfect example of such a delusion. I propose to deal with the practicalities of how this House can deal with the fact that it wants to give time to deal with this most important topic.

I start with the fact that the day suggested in the noble Lord’s Motion is a national bank holiday in Scotland shows, in my view, an appalling ignorance of how important it is for the United Kingdom that we recognise each other’s bank holidays in this respect. I do not take that casually. I also do not take it casually that his proposal would mean that not only Peers but members of staff would have to curtail their holiday arrangements to be here to meet his requirements. I would rather concentrate on what we are planning to do.

Yesterday, we issued a Forthcoming Business in which there were two days of debate scheduled to deal with the take-note Motion on withdrawal. We have had to abandon one and will have to start again. As noble Lords will know, as a result of conversations in the usual channels I have agreed to extend that debate to three days. So we will be discussing these very subjects, which I appreciate that the noble Lord takes very much to heart, on 9, 10 and 14 January. I think that gives everybody proper time to absorb the situations as they exist and I hope noble Lords will appreciate the time that has been given. I cannot accept the noble Lord’s Motion and I hope that the House rejects it.

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I regret very much that my long-term and noble friend Lord Adonis did not see fit to consult or inform me on what he was doing because I would have been able to inform him then that, as a result of ongoing negotiations—some of them tense, at times, but nevertheless in the proper way of negotiations—we have the extra day. That is proportionate to the time that the Commons has and, most importantly, it allows the House of Lords to vote and therefore fulfil its constitutional duty and role of informing the House of Commons of our point of view. I very much regret that he did not do so.

During my 23 years in the other place, perennially at the time of a recess somebody would jump up, irrespective of party, and demand that we cut our allegedly long holiday short and attend to the needs of the nation, because something was in doubt and all the rest of it. This was so that they could get their image in the constituency or in the country as one who did not care about long holidays. I see various former Members agreeing with me on that. I certainly do not think that is my noble friend’s ulterior motive because he has never had the difficulty or problems of being elected to public office.