Energy Bill

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Worthington]

In moving Amendment 36, I shall speak also to Amendment 37. Again, these are simply probing amendments to elicit more detail. I have a genuine question about definitions of electricity generation. We believe it would be helpful to have more information about what would be included under that descriptor. It is important that electricity is generated in a power station and is then transmitted long distances along transmission lines and through distribution networks. Quite significant losses accrue through that process. One of the advantages of distributed energy is that by locating the source close to the demand you get a potentially more efficient system. I would be interested to hear from the Minister about how far electricity generation will stretch. Does it take us through the plant into transmission and then to distribution? Where do we draw the line?

On what might seem a technical point, within that transmission network, there are sources of significant greenhouse gases other than CO₂. SF6 is a very powerful source of greenhouse gas. In fact, it is the most powerful greenhouse gas. One kilogram of SF6 is equivalent to the emissions of 22,200 kilograms of CO₂. It is significantly used in electricity substations. There are requirements to report losses of SF6 because it is such a significant pollutant. What policies do we have in place to reduce the emissions of SF6? Mechanisms can be used to reduce it. There are obvious leak detection and repair processes that companies should carry out. It is possible to recycle equipment. Employee education and training is a very important aspect.

I am sorry to spring this on the Minister. It is quite a technical issue and I would be surprised if her notes cover it. I use it only as an illustration of the fact that “electricity generation” is quite broad terminology. It would be helpful to know what is included. Anything that the noble Baroness can say about SF6 in a letter or in another way would be helpful.

As regards Amendment 37, I reiterate my thanks for the letter we received, which addresses the concern about how we are to marry up the fact that through the CFD process we may well fund generation outside the UK. I happen to think that is probably quite a good idea. Certainly, if Ireland is happy to have onshore wind that can be directly piped to Wales in a direct cable, that would be fantastic for us. I would prefer it if onshore wind were in the UK, where we would get the benefit of the jobs but there are problems associated with our being a very densely populated country. This is not to challenge the principle that CFDs can be assigned in places other than within the UK but merely to ask how we will account for that within the carbon intensity targets. Will those plants receiving CFDs count towards it? Will the noble Baroness say more about that?

[Lord Teverson]

This is a useful probing amendment. One of the other areas that has not been mentioned is the interest that the Government have had in geothermal energy from Iceland, which has started to be explored. I would like to think that we could have geothermal from Cornwall that we would be absolutely certain was within this regime—maybe I will come to that later in the Bill. It is useful to start to understand this and develop these arguments, because, in terms of dedicated sources of renewable energy that we work with other nations to bring to these shores, it would be regrettable if we were not able to take the full credit for that work within the decarbonisation targets. I would be interested to hear the Government’s thinking in this area.

[Baroness Verma]

Amendment 36 proposes that the Secretary of State makes further provision about the meaning of “electricity generation”. Clause 4 defines carbon intensity as a measure of the amount of carbon emissions generated in grams per unit. Before I go further, I will write to the noble Baroness on SF6, because my notes do not cover that detail. I will make sure that next time they are here at hand.

The Bill covers emissions from all electricity generated within the territorial boundaries of the UK, both from power stations and auto generators, and includes the emissions from electricity before any transmission losses. This approach is consistent with our international reporting system, which the noble Baroness will know about. I should also like to reassure noble Lords that the power in Clause 4(4) enables the Secretary of State to make further provision for the meaning of carbon intensity of electricity generation and this includes any changes to the definition of electricity generation. I think this goes a little way to responding to the concerns of the noble Baroness.

Turning to Amendment 37, Clause 4 currently states that carbon intensity of the power sector includes emissions generated in Great Britain only. Although, as I said, this will apply to the UK power sector following the Government’s amendments to extend the decarbonisation provisions, this does not include emissions from interconnection or non-UK low-carbon generation. The Government considered this very seriously when we were designing these clauses. While interconnection is important, the Secretary of State cannot realistically be responsible for, and would have great difficulty in measuring, the carbon intensity of electricity generated outside the UK. Fundamentally, what is coming down the wires is simply electricity, and we could not say for certain in most cases whether it is low-carbon or not. If anything, my concern is that we would find ourselves overclaiming, when in fact the electricity being imported was from a wide range of generation sources. However, as I previously mentioned, these provisions retain flexibility so that this approach can be reviewed at a later date and changed if we feel it is necessary to do so.

I reassure noble Lords that if it becomes necessary to alter the definition of carbon intensity of electricity generation, for example to include emissions from interconnection and non-UK low-carbon sources, further provisions can be made and will be made by the power in Clause 4(4).

I hope that I am able to reassure noble Lords that the Government’s provisions already have a purpose and a sensible and logical approach for measuring the carbon intensity of electricity generation, and that a further power to amend the default definition is available should the definition need to be modified.

My noble friend Lord Teverson raised a point on thermal support. The Government announced draft strike prices last week for geothermal energy sourcing to support the development of that technology. I know that my noble friend will be extremely pleased to see that.

The noble Baroness mentioned offshore wind turbines off the coast of Ireland. As yet, we have not said anything about limiting support to specific technologies. A memorandum of understanding was signed by the Irish and UK Governments earlier this year which covers renewable technologies, and we are working closely with the Irish Government to develop further dialogue on that. On that note, I hope that the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Lord Teverson]

Before the noble Baroness withdraws it, may I make one further comment? I am not getting in the way of progress and I do not expect a response from the Minister, but there is a qualitative difference. I accept the point exactly about general interconnectors but there is a difference between the specific inter- connectors dedicated to wind energy and which are for those sources of power, whether it is around Iceland or Ireland, and general interconnectors. It may be useful for the Government to remember that, but I thank the noble Baroness and the Government for their continued attention to geothermal and I very much welcome her comments.

[Baroness Worthington]

I thank the Minister for her response and I look forward to receiving the letter. On Amendment 37 it is important to say, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, has just stated, that I was not necessarily probing in regard to interconnectors. However, in the fuel disclosure that we just described, suppliers are able to use electricity that they have purchased through the interconnector to count towards their fuel disclosure. They use an averaged amount that is worked out, in fact, so it is possible to account for interconnection. I am not asking for that, but I wanted to make sure that that was clear.

I was referring to a specific project, which I think is called Greenwire. That project may be called onshore-offshore, being built on the land of Ireland but connected by a direct cable to the UK. It is not an interconnector but a direct transmission line. If that goes ahead, it would potentially be a good and significant source of low-carbon electricity. It would be a shame if that were then not to count towards our carbon intensity target. After all, it would be UK suppliers and consumers who were paying for it. It really is important that when we think about these definitional issues, we get it correctly understood. The letter refers to the difference between direct connection and interconnection, so we are probably on the right track. I wanted to make sure and get it on the record that those projects will count towards our carbon intensity targets. On that basis, I am pleased to withdraw the amendment.