Greater Manchester Combined Authority Order 2011

Lord Tope Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Bradshaw]

I obviously support the order. It seems very sensible. In earlier legislation under the Labour Government, I moved amendments to allow the then PTEs to be joint signatories of railway franchises in their areas. I had a lot of support from the PTEs but faced an absolute stone wall from the Minister at the time. There will be huge railway development in Manchester, particularly the northern hub at the centre. It will require great work in Manchester. The Minister mentioned that there would be close working with the DfT, but I would like him to say what that means. In the past, people with experience in Liverpool and Leeds found that that close working led to very expensive delays and people feeling that they were not being helped by the department so much as throttled.

Going forward, when there are large developments, will the department bring itself to treat these large organisations that they are creating as partners rather than servants of the department? I am sorry if that sounds rather unpleasant, but I met several leaders of these authorities at the weekend and they were strong about that. There is an old saying, “I'm from the council: I'm here to help you”. But it almost seems to be, “I'm from the department and I'm here to curse you”. I would like the Minister to expand on how these freedoms will be exercised.

[Lord Tope]

My Lords, I, too, join in the general welcome for this order. I give it our warm and enthusiastic support. It must be as near to perfection as any Government order can achieve. It is enabled by an Act of Parliament passed under a Labour Government. The noble Lord, Lord Smith, recorded the many happy hours we spent on the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill as it then was. I am hugely reassured to know that something good has at last come out of the many hours that we spent on it.

The order is supported by 10 local authorities and all the political parties, by business and now we hear that it has the blessing of the church as well. What more could any Government ever seek to achieve? Furthermore, we know that this is happening, quite rightly, by voluntary means rather than being imposed from above, and there is a strong lesson in that. We hear, too, that not only is it not going to cost more but there is an expectation of savings and that it can all be implemented without any great bureaucracy. This must be as near to perfection as we can ever hope from any government order, and I am sure that there will be nobody who would wish it ill or wish to oppose it on that basis. We give it our enthusiastic support, and I hope that it will show that this is the way of the future and this will be the first but not the last of a move in this direction. We wish it well.

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, I join the right reverend Prelate in paying tribute to my noble, and indeed personal, friend Lord Smith. George Orwell would recognise him as an exemplary Wigan Peer if he were to rewrite his book. I also congratulate the Minister and the Government on proceeding with reasonable alacrity to bring forward this order. I have not checked, so I am not sure whether it meets the requirement of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, of being printed on recycled paper. If not, that is the only defect one could possibly find with it. However, although this was the first order of this kind and there was a change of Government, it is nearly a year since the proposal was made. One would hope that on the basis of the experience of this order, if further applications are made—and I certainly hope that they are—the process will be a little swifter. Otherwise, particularly if there are a number of such applications, it will be quite a long time before they can be dealt with. However, presumably now that government departments have the experience of dealing with the process, it will be speedier.

I must also pay tribute not only to my noble friend but to his colleagues across the political divide in the authorities in Greater Manchester. They had their differences over the congestion charge, as he reminded us, but generally speaking they have worked very well together. I am sure that that will be the case after the pending local elections in May, although whether there will still be the same number of councillors of different political colours remains to be seen. In any event, it is clear that, not for the first time, Greater Manchester has blazed a trail for metropolitan governance in this country. The councils have, of course, a very strong municipal history. Now that they have come together and formed, in effect, a sub-region, those of us who are concerned with other areas of that kind need to watch carefully and learn from that.

I hope that the Minister will forgive me if I strike a slightly partisan note, but it is regrettable that the Secretary of State has seen fit to single out Manchester City Council for, in my view, excessive criticism—not in relation to this proposition but in more general terms. One hopes that the spirit animating the Government in reaching this satisfactory conclusion to the approach from Greater Manchester will be reflected in more measured language in looking at the problems encountered by all the authorities in that area. But of course they have worked successfully for many years, as the Minister and other noble Lords have said. There has been a very striking urban renaissance in Manchester itself and in Salford, which is welcoming hordes of reluctant BBC employees with open arms as the headquarters move there but also in other parts of the conurbation. As an LGA study some time ago demonstrated, the scale of sub-regional governance is a key factor in bringing together the requirements for the development of the local economy and some of the infrastructure that goes with that, although there are other issues which transcend those boundaries and which need to be considered on a regional basis. In that regard, the structures that have existed will unfortunately no longer exist, and that may slightly impede the success of a very promising venture. Of course, it has to be borne in mind that this takes place against a background of a very difficult financial situation for the authorities.

My noble friend referred to Community Budgeting, or Total Place, as it was known before it was rebranded after the election. There is certainly potential here to look at problems across the range of public services that might be tackled more effectively, given the fairly cohesive nature of the area, although each borough has its own distinctive character. In the local health economy, for example, the issues of skills and further and higher education are not confined by boundaries. Like my noble friend, I hope that the new organisation will be able to influence developments there. Equally, I hope the Minister will persuade the relevant government departments that they must look outside the traditional silos and co-operate fully in the development of such an approach.

I join all those who have spoken in warmly welcoming this critical development. I hope that others will seek to follow it. I have but one question for the Minister, which relates to the constitution. Manchester city is to be visited with the novel creation of a shadow mayor, assuming the proposal is accepted under the Localism Bill. It is an interesting concept: the shadow mayor has to be appointed and there then has to be confirmation of the position in a referendum, perhaps the following year. However, that applies only to the city of Manchester, which is extremely well led by Sir Richard Leese. He will not be the mayor of Greater Manchester—the surrounding boroughs will not quite accept that proposition, although I have no doubt that the press will try to portray him in that capacity—nor will anybody who might be elected to that position, if the referendum goes in favour of an elected mayor.

A question arises from the constitution, on which the noble Lord can perhaps help me. The membership is described as being based on each constituent council appointing one of its elected members to be a member of the new body. Maybe I am being even more pedantic than usual but it is not clear whether a mayor is an elected member of the council. The shadow mayor will be in place for the duration of that year; he is, by definition, a member of that council. If there is an elected mayor, the question then arises of whether he is to be regarded for the purposes of this order as an elected member of the council. He is not an elected member in the way that every other member is an elected member. It may be that this is a point with no substance to it but it might need to be considered. If it is not clear, perhaps some thought might be given to dealing with the situation. If it is clear, that is wonderful—we can all go away happy.