Children’s Funeral Costs

Marcus Jones Excerpts

Monday 28th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

I begin by thanking the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for her work in bringing this sensitive and important issue to national attention. It is always difficult to know how others feel in such circumstances—

--- Later in debate ---

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do adjourn.—(Heather Wheeler.)

[Mr Jones]

Just to reiterate, it is always difficult to know how others feel in such circumstances, although it is always easy to say we do when we have not been in those circumstances ourselves. I am a father of two children, and I am very lucky, but losing a child must be the worst thing that can happen to a parent.

It is important that the arrangements that the state can put in place in such circumstances are as helpful in giving support to grieving parents as they can be. This is clearly, therefore, a matter of great sensitivity and importance, and it is incumbent on all public sector organisations with a role to play to ensure that they are understanding and helpful.

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for setting out this issue so powerfully. It certainly cannot have been easy for her to come to the House tonight to make a speech on this subject. She has shown great strength and courage in bringing this issue to the House tonight. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]

Let me start by setting out the context in which my Department and local government operate. As democratically elected organisations, local councils are independent of central Government and are responsible for managing their budgets in line with local priorities. I understand that a number of local authorities already choose to waive fees for children’s funerals. I hope all local authorities would carefully consider their policy in this area, and whether it is right to go further in the light of the concerns the hon. Lady has raised today. I note that very recently Telford and Wrekin Council and Clipstone Parish Council have decided to do just that, as the hon. Lady requested.

There is also a role that central Government can play. The Government recognise that the period following a death will have emotional, social and financial impacts for the bereaved, and people may need to draw on a wide range of support at that difficult time. It is for that reason that the Department for Work and Pensions operates the social fund funeral expenses payments scheme, which makes a significant contribution towards a funeral for families in receipt of a qualifying income benefit. The scheme meets the full necessary costs of a cremation or burial, including the purchase of a grave with exclusive burial rights. Other costs, such as the coffin, and church and funeral directors’ fees, are limited to a maximum scheme payment of £700. However, there is no restriction on the type of funeral expenses that can be claimed under this category, and applying the limit allows the bereaved a choice of how best to spend the payment.

I certainly hear what the hon. Lady has said about the social fund, and I absolutely understand her concerns about the way in which it works. It is good that we have on the Treasury Bench today my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Welfare Delivery, from the Department for Work and Pensions, which operates the scheme, and she will have heard what the hon. Lady had to say about the scheme.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I hope that the Minister has listened to and heard what has been said. As we have heard, parents in a fog of bereavement cannot even think of filling in DWP forms, and a grant of £700 goes nowhere towards the cost of a funeral in many parts of the country—it costs thousands. My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) has put an incredibly courageous case for having that cost covered by the Government. It cannot be right to make a local council choose between doing this or providing social care, and that might be the choice that it has. Will the Minister think again and not give my hon. Friend, or any of us, pat answers but really take this away and think about it?

[Mr Jones]

I fully understand the points that the hon. Lady makes and the sentiment behind them. With regard to the social fund, the maximum payments for certain costs are limited to £700, but there are other funds that can be realised. I appreciate what she says in relation to how the fund is accessed. In many cases, the funding from the social fund funeral expenses payments and social fund budgeting loans offers an adequate level of support. The amount spent by the Government in 2015-16 was £40 million.

I realise that this evening I am unable to give the hon. Member for Swansea East the assurances that she has come to the House to seek and will not be able to go as far as she would like, but I recognise the very significant pain that she has articulated to the House, and the very significant pain that families find themselves in when they are in the same situation.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for the very compassionate way in which she put her case. No one in this House would not have had a tear in their eye along with her. We commiserate with her very much.

The hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) have indicated that those on benefits receive help through the funeral social fund while those who are in work do not, but those on lower incomes should be helped. The Minister will be aware that various charities such as the Child Funeral Charity can help as well. I want to put it on record that I support the hon. Lady, and all right hon. and hon. Members who are here, in asking the Government to consider this very seriously, and ask the Minister to grasp the understanding and compassion that we want him to have on behalf of the hon. Lady and all the other people out there who need help.

[Mr Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and certainly understand the sentiment behind it. I am aware that there are charities that support families in this sense, but I also understand what he is asking of Government, as I do in relation to what the hon. Member for Swansea East is looking for.

My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Welfare Delivery is restarting a roundtable group with the funeral industry and bereavement charities, because it is important that the Government have a better understanding of how the funeral industry works in this regard and what more can be done to help.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on the incredible courage that she has shown this evening and in recent days—in fact, years.

Does the Minister recognise that for people of different faiths, this can add additional complexity and cost, particularly if a rapid burial is required? Having in mind particular cases of my constituents who have experienced funeral poverty where faith has been a dimension, may I urge him and his colleagues to make sure that faith organisations, particularly Muslim and Jewish organisations but those of other faiths as well, are represented in the discussions in the roundtable group?

[Mr Jones]

I fully understand what the hon. Gentleman says. I represent many Muslim constituents and I know that when they have a bereavement in the community, they seek to deal with the burial as soon as possible, quite often within 24 hours. He makes a very good point, and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary has just nodded to me to confirm that she would be more than happy to include the groups that the hon. Gentleman mentions.

As I have said several times, I know that the assurances that I have been able to give tonight will not go as far as the hon. Member for Swansea East would like. I recognise the difficulty and the trouble that she has gone to in bringing the matter to the House tonight. I hope that bringing this matter to the wider attention of the House and of the public will mean that local authorities will consider their approach to charging and take their local residents’ views into account. The Economic Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby), who is here on the Treasury Bench, has heard what the hon. Lady said. I am sure that as a result of tonight’s debate, we will all reflect on what she has suggested the Government do.

Question put and agreed to.