Student Visas

Debate between Mark Lazarowicz and Keith Vaz

Thursday 16th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson). He is right to widen the debate from student visas, because the Government’s intention in trying to limit the number of students coming into this country is based on their view that over the next four years—by the end of this Parliament—they can reduce net migration from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands.

However, I am sure that other Members, like me, are surprised that the Government have already revised their statistics and calculations. As the Select Committee on Home Affairs concluded, it will be difficult for the Government to meet that target. When the Home Secretary made her statement to the House, she said that she hoped to reduce student numbers by 80,000 each year until 2015, but on 13 June, the Home Office revised its figures and told us that curbing student visas will reduce total numbers by only 46,000 annually. Some could say that that is because the Government have listened and recognised the importance of the student route, but I think it relates to a fundamental point made by the hon. Member for Peterborough and—dare I say it?—the chairman of Migrationwatch UK: we cannot discuss immigration openly, honestly and transparently unless we know what the figures are, and we do not know what the figures are, because we still do not count people in and out of this country.

Part of the blame must lie with the previous Government. They signed the e-Borders contract and agreed to pay the company concerned £188 million, and, in my view, they failed to monitor how that private sector contract operated. This Government, of course, have decided to end the contract with Raytheon. Sadly, it took them more than nine months to appoint a successor, and they have now agreed to spend another £30 million or so, asking Serco and IBM to provide the same service as was provided in the past.

The reason why I raise the issue, and why the Select Committee keeps raising it in every report that we produce, is that we are all for having a good debate on immigration—it is important and healthy to do so here rather than on the streets of West Bromwich, Leicester or anywhere else—but if we are to have that debate, let us have some figures on which we can all agree. At the moment, we still do not have those figures.

On the completion of the e-Borders programme and the Minister for Immigration’s focus on it, he was keen to ensure when he was in opposition that the previous Government counted figures, although I am glad that the Government have abandoned their original plans for asylum seekers to be dealt with on that famous offshore island before coming into this country. It is important that we ensure that the e-Borders programme works, for the reasons outlined by the hon. Member for Peterborough, which I think we all believe are extremely important in any discussion of this kind.

Everyone here today who has spoken on behalf of the great university towns and cities of this country has spoken for genuine colleges and institutions. Of course there are some in our constituencies that are not genuine, but by and large, what has driven my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) and my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Central (Tony Lloyd) to come here—as well as the hon. Member representing University Centre Peterborough, and me with my two great universities, De Montfort and Leicester—is our belief that the Government’s proposals will affect those genuine institutions. We should be cautious about damaging them and the reputation of our colleges.

The figures are coming from India already. The number of applications to this country has decreased by 40%, even before the proposals have been implemented. If that damage starts—it started in America when the Americans changed their system, and in Australia when the Australians decided to do the same—it is difficult to recover once people believe that they cannot come to study in a country. That is why we must be tough on bogus colleges.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

My right hon. Friend is right to say that most of us here have come because of deep concerns about universities and colleges in our constituencies, but we also have concerns about the many reputable, high-quality English language schools that are being affected even more seriously by the changes, in some ways. The Government must change their proposals if those schools are to survive.

[Keith Vaz]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Home Affairs Committee held a big meeting in Brighton with local MPs from various parties, including the Green party, the Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats, and they were all against the Government’s proposals due to the damage that they will cause to English language colleges. In many cases, such colleges are the pathway to full-time degrees. It is extremely important that we focus on them as well.

However, we must be absolutely tough on bogus colleges. We have suggested two ways for that to happen. Unannounced inspections by the UK Border Agency are necessary. In the past, the UK Border Agency rang up colleges and told them that inspectors were coming. By the time they arrived, all of a sudden—like “Mission: Impossible”, for those who are old enough to remember it—a whole lot of students and teachers had been brought in for the inspectors to see. How crazy is it to tell a bogus college that it is about to be inspected?

I had a call from a Conservative councillor in a London borough who preferred to ring up the Home Affairs Committee rather than the UK Border Agency to tell us that a new bogus college was operating in her ward. On Monday, I sent my research assistant to the college. She rang up and said that she was a student and wished to enrol on the course. They said, “Right, come along at 10 o’clock and we’ll give you a brochure.” She arrived, and there was absolutely nobody in the college. She stood outside and rang them again. They said that they were not open yet, but would be in September, and that they had applied to the Home Office. I have a letter for the Minister. I hope that he will check whether that is in fact the case, so that I can tell the hard-working local councillor whether that college is bogus.

We need proper inspections. Nobody in the Chamber has a tolerance of bogus colleges. We want to ensure that they are closed down, because they are bad for the students who go there. The second point on bogus colleges and abuse relates to the points-based system that the previous Government introduced. The system gives no discretion to entry clearance officers and immigration officers at Heathrow airport. It is left to whistleblowers to go to the Daily Mail and say that we let in all these people who had student visas who do not actually speak any English, but are doing computer courses—I think that was the last claim that we saw in one of the newspapers. We need to give discretion to our professionals. The points-based system is absolute and clear, but that extra discretion is necessary to enable the entry clearance officers to say yes and no, even if people qualify under the points-based system, and to give immigration officers the authority to make those decisions.

My final point is one that I raised with my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), and I join other hon. Members in congratulating him on securing the debate. I know that he has been trying to do so for many months. He was offered a shorter slot. He said that many people were interested in the issue, hung on and we can see the number of hon. Members who are here today. I congratulate him on hanging on long enough to secure a good three-hour debate. I will not speak for long because other hon. Members wish to speak.

The Home Affairs Committee report concluded that students were not migrants, and should not be part of the figures. They are not migrants because they come to study, not to settle. Of course, the Minister will come out with his figures and say that he finds that some settle in the end, because they keep applying to change their courses. Well, I for one have no problem with non-switching. I am not a great fan of people who come on the basis of one set of visas and want to switch to another.

I do not know whether it happened during the term of office of my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), but the previous Labour Government stopped the switching from visitors to spouses. I therefore have to tell my constituents that, if people come here on holiday and fall in love with a British citizen, I am afraid that they have to go back and apply again. The previous Labour Government provided for that. I have no major problem with switching, but we need to be very clear. It is more of a systemic problem than one of intention. If there is a problem of intention, we can deal with it by preventing switching.

We should not, however, damage our university and English language sector by accusing all students of wanting to come here, study and stay. That is why what my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central said about post-work study is so important. When they choose to come here, they also choose to work for that year, and that is essential to their studies. If they do not come here, they will go to the United States of America, Australia or France.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), gave evidence to us, as I think he did to the Committee chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey). He talked about Britain being the centre of world for education. He told us about Nottingham university and how he personally, because of his interest in Malaysia, had gone to Malaysia and got thousands of Malaysian students to study in Nottingham. Indeed, there is a campus just for Malaysian students. He was very proud of that. We cannot have one Minister saying that we are open to the world and then have other Ministers trying to prevent that from happening.

I hope that the Minister will not say that the UN tells him that the students are migrants, and so they have to be migrants. If they are not migrants and they wish just to study and then leave, they should not be counted as migrants. If they are working illegally or there is any abuse, I say to the Minister for Immigration—I know that he will take this seriously, and has taken this seriously—out they go. There is no tolerance of people who abuse the system. I have just come back from a visit to the Greek-Turkish border, where I saw people who are trying to come into this country, crossing over at an enormous rate. I, for one, am very happy to work with the Government and others to try to stop illegal immigration.

When we are dealing with people who genuinely want to come to study, the Government should stop, consider and reflect, because of the potential damage to our reputation as the greatest country in the world for education. That reputation was the reason why my family chose to come here when I was nine years of age. They chose to come here because of this country’s reputation for valuing education. Let us not damage our reputation. Let us make sure that our rules and policies are clear and transparent, but fair.