Iran’s Influence in the Middle East

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Nuttall, and to follow the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) on securing the debate and on braving the Northern line to make sure that he got here.

I share my hon. Friend’s serious concerns about the destabilising effect of Iran on the middle east, and am delighted that there is concern in the United States; there has been for a long time. I am encouraged to hear that the new Trump Administration have initiated a review process whereby the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps could finally be listed as a foreign terrorist organisation. That is a welcome break from long-standing US and European policies that seemingly regarded the hard-line paramilitary organisation as a legitimate instrument of Iran’s national defence, despite the fact that it sponsors Hezbollah, Hamas and various other terrorist proxies throughout the middle east and across the world.

Prior to the change in approach, the State Department saw fit only to give a punitive designation to the special foreign operations wing of the IRGC, known as the Quds Force. Yet even that designation was somewhat anaemic, in that it saw fit to identify the Quds Force only as a “material supporter of terrorism”, and not as a fully-fledged terrorist entity. I argue that the IRGC as a whole unquestionably fits the legal criteria for designation as a terrorist organisation, given its proven involvement in terrorist attacks abroad.

If there were any question about the organisation’s terrorist intentions or capabilities, it should have been cleared up following new revelations about IRGC activities inside and outside Iran from the National Council of Resistance of Iran, which I am proud to support. Those new revelations added clarity to what most foreign policy analysts know about Iran’s theocratic regime: that it has spent years and resources on an effort to deepen sectarian divisions throughout the region. Clearly, widespread instability has resulted from those efforts, not the least aspect of which was the amplification of conditions leading to the rise of Islamic State. Not only did IRGC involvement contribute to the Syrian war; it saved Bashar al-Assad from the brink of being overthrown. It has attached religious significance to the intervention and encouraged the sectarian aspects of the conflict.

Similarly, ISIL’s success in Iraq came only after Tehran encouraged a purge of Sunnis under the Government of former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. The resulting conflict in Iraq has allowed IRGC-backed Shi’ite groups to take on ever more extensive roles in the country’s military efforts and, by extension, in its political affairs as well.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that a huge concern for us all is the role of Iranian Shi’a militia in destabilising post-liberation Mosul in the vacuum after the removal of Daesh, and in creating the conditions for Iranian-sponsored instability and sectarianism in Mosul and the surrounding area?

[Bob Blackman]

Clearly, that harmful aspect—the destabilising of the regime—amplifies the problems with what Iran does.

What I have been describing has diminished American and European influence and perpetuated today’s climate of division. It is undoubtedly harmful to our interests, and it benefits Tehran’s constitutionally mandated mission to extend the Islamic revolution beyond the borders of the Islamic Republic. It would be absurd to suggest that the IRGC’s proxies in Syria, Iraq and Yemen are not terrorist operatives in the same way as its proxies in Bahrain, Kuwait, and Nigeria are. Each of them is trained by similar means within the same Iranian network and serves the same foreign policy goals of the Islamic Republic, which are contrary to the interests of Europe, the UK and the United States.

The Obama Administration have rightly been criticised for appeasement, as has been mentioned. Despite the cherished nuclear agreement and associated side deals, there has been no sign, either that the human rights violations that routinely take place are being rectified, or of moderation in Iran’s anti-American and anti-western rhetoric or promotion of international terrorism. We should therefore understand that the theocracy ruling Iran will remain true to its hard-line roots, regardless of what we in this country, or beyond, attempt to do. There is little rational basis for further arguments in favour of conciliation and appeasement, especially given what the Prime Minister and the Trump Administration have said.

I want finally to ask the Minister whether he will follow the Trump Administration in reviewing policy, and proscribe the IRGC.

Turkey: Human Rights and the Political Situation

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

I offer my congratulations to the right hon. Member for Enfield North (Joan Ryan) and the co-sponsors of the debate. It is not only timeous but imperative. The relationship between the EU and Turkey is now fractious at best, given President Erdogan’s scorched-earth approach to democracy and human rights in Turkey as he pursues an executive presidency with all the fervour of a dictator, riding roughshod over democratic process and consigning Turkey’s reputation as a stable secular democracy to the annals of history, while using last summer’s coup attempt as a bloody blank cheque to suspend the rule of law and human rights.

At this point, I of course express my condolences and concern for the people in Turkey who lost their lives during the violence last summer and those who have suffered terrorist atrocities in the last few months and years. I add to that my condolences for the civilians in areas of the south-east of Turkey who lost their lives at the hands of the Turkish military, for whom no half-mast flags fly across the world, whose sufferings speak not their name.

At this point in history, as the UK prepares to leave the EU, our relationship with other nations will define the UK and who we really want to be on the world stage: insular and inward, internationalist and outward, or empire 2.0. The indications thus far send alarming signals. Immediately after announcing her intention to trigger article 50, the Prime Minister headed off to meet President Trump, immediately prior to meeting Turkish President Erdogan and signing a trade deal to supply military aircraft to Turkey with no human rights caveats, before finally inviting Benjamin Netanyahu to Downing Street—quite the triumvirate. Will concerns about demonstrable human rights abuses and the disregard for the rule of law be casualties of the UK’s desperate need to find trade allies post Brexit? I sincerely hope not, but I fear the indications are not good.

Human rights abuses in Turkey preceded the coup attempt of last summer, and while unequivocally condemning what happened, we cannot be blind to the fact that the orchestrations of what is happening now—the imprisonment of democratically elected politicians; the closing down of civil society space; the highest proportion of journalists jailed in the world; imprisonment without trial; military personnel, teachers, lecturers and judges sacked and silenced; and the mockery of fundamental freedoms of speech, expression, religion and language—all have their roots in President Erdogan’s transition from Prime Minister to autocrat.

It will be no surprise to many that I wish to concentrate the rest of my remarks on the Kurdish issue, as that is intrinsic to what is happening in Turkey as a whole. The policies that President Erdogan is now pursuing against political opponents and public leaders across Turkish society have been well trialled against the Kurds. Next month, Erdogan will hold a rigged referendum to enshrine in the law and constitution his position as executive President and bypass Turkey’s Parliament on many issues. I say “rigged” because political opponents such as democratically elected HDP MPs and the co-leaders and elected co-mayors of Kurdish areas and municipalities, such as Diyarbakir, Nusaybin and Sirnak, have been imprisoned and held without trial, with many allegations of torture having been made. The referendum’s no campaign proponents have been silenced, their premises attacked or closed down and adverts banned, and the media are wholly in the palm of Erdogan’s closed fist because of fear of imprisonment.

I will bring my remarks to a close, because there is very little time and I want to respect other speakers. The Kurds have a saying that the mountains are their only friends. I am here today to say that that is not true. There are politicians in this House and civil society organisations in the UK, such as Unite and the GMB, that stand in solidarity with the peoples of all of Turkey, but particularly those in Bakur.

I share the sentiments of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I hope that the Minister will be more robust in answering some of our concerns than the Minister for Europe and the Americas was when he responded to the debate in January on the closing down of civil society space across the world.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

It is a pleasure to respond to this very important debate. I join the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton), in saying that it is a shame that we did not have longer. I hope that the powers that be will recognise that it is important that the matter is discussed.

I join others in congratulating the right hon. Members for Enfield North (Joan Ryan), and for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) and the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Natalie McGarry) on their speeches. Hon. Members will have noticed that I am not my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe and the Americas, who should be replying to this debate. He is travelling at the moment. I will do my best to respond to the big themes that have been raised today and I will ask him to write to individual Members with detailed responses to some of the questions that have been put. There simply is not time for me to go into too much detail now, due to the shortness of this debate.

As has been said, the UK has an important relationship with Turkey which stretches back over 400 years. As the Prime Minister said during her visit to Ankara in January, that relationship has long been important, but it is arguably even more important now, given the challenges we face today. Turkey is a vital strategic partner. It stands on the crossroads between Europe and the middle east, and it is a NATO ally, as many hon. Members mentioned. It stands on the frontline of some of the most serious challenges that we face. Turkey is a Muslim-majority democracy with a dynamic economy, and it has an active and important diaspora in this country.

I will talk about some of the key aspects of our relationship, the first of which is security. Turkey plays a crucial role in the region. It is a key partner in Syria, where we are working together in the global coalition to fight Daesh and in support of a political solution to the conflict. However, we are also working together to tackle challenges in Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan and the wider region, including in support of a Cyprus settlement, which has been mentioned. Our security co-operation with Turkey is essential to ensure the safety of British tourists in Turkey—about 1.7 million Britons travel there each year—and to help us to tackle threats here in the UK.

We should not forget the significant role that Turkey plays in the migration crisis. I pay tribute to the work that Turkey has done in hosting almost 3 million Syrian refugees. The generosity of the Turkish people has been extraordinary.

[Natalie McGarry]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am afraid I will not give way, simply because of the time.

During her visit to Turkey, the Prime Minister agreed a new strategic security partnership, which will ensure that we can work together even more closely on counter-terrorism, serious and organised crime, and illegal migration. Also, there were discussions about human rights, the rule of law and democracy.

The second particularly important aspect of our relationship with Turkey is trade. Bilateral trade between our countries is currently worth £16 billion. We are looking to build rapidly on that, not least with the agreement between the Turkish aerospace industry and BAE Systems to collaborate on Turkey’s new fighter jet, the TFX. Our two countries have also established a trade working group to seek further ways of boosting bilateral trade.

Consequently, it was as a partner and an ally that the UK stood shoulder to shoulder with Turkey in July last year as it defended its democracy from an attempt to seize power by force. Turkey’s Parliament was attacked by the country’s own aircraft, civilians were crushed under tanks and 241 people were killed. We condemned the attempted coup unreservedly and continue to do so, and we have expressed our sympathies and condolences for the tragic loss of life. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe and the Americas travelled to Turkey shortly after the attempted coup, and expressed our solidarity with the Turkish people. The way that they rallied across the political spectrum to support the constitutional order was an impressive demonstration of the strength of Turkish democracy.

In light of the attempted coup, the Turkish Government have a right and a responsibility to act against the perpetrators and against those who have committed or who plan to commit terrorist acts. The UK Government have consistently stated that it is important that measures taken following the coup should be proportionate, justified and in line with Turkey’s democratic principles and international human rights obligations. Of course, we are aware that concerns have been raised, including by the Council of Europe, and we welcome Turkey’s recent steps to address those concerns by reducing the custody period and creating a mechanism for reviewing dismissals carried out under the state of emergency. We support the dialogue between Turkey and the Council of Europe on implementation of the emergency decrees following the coup and we urge them to continue dialogue on these issues.

In addition to concerns about Turkey’s response to the attempted coup, concerns have been expressed about its broader human rights record. In this area too, we regularly emphasise the need for Turkey to meet its international obligations. The Prime Minister referred to that directly in January, emphasising the importance of Turkey sustaining its democracy by maintaining the rule of law and upholding its international human rights obligations. We regularly highlight the role that freedom of expression and freedom of the media play in supporting democracy, and we urge the Turkish Government to ensure that the upcoming referendum on constitutional reform is free, fair and in line with international norms.

Internally, Turkey faces a grave terrorist challenge on its own soil from Daesh and al-Qaeda, as well as from the PKK and affiliated groups. In the last 18 months, nearly 1,500 Turkish civilians and security personnel have been killed through terrorism, and we offer our condolences for the many lives that have been lost. In the face of this threat, we stand by Turkey and support its legitimate right to defend itself, including from the PKK, whose attacks we condemn, as we condemn all terrorism. As in any conflict, civilian casualties should be avoided and human rights should be fully protected. In the course of the counter-terrorism effort, it is important that legal processes are undertaken fairly, transparently and with full respect for the law.

Turkey is and will remain an essential trade and foreign policy partner for the UK, including as a NATO ally. We are working with Turkey to manage cross-border challenges, including migration, terrorism, and serious and organised crime, and we are building on our already significant trading relationship, which will benefit both our economies. At the same time, we have to be clear and direct about the need for Turkey to uphold its international obligations, including on human rights, and we will continue to do this. We firmly believe that the rule of law and fundamental rights, including freedom of expression and the media, are vital for a healthy democracy. As Turkey continues to confront the extraordinary challenges posed by the current turmoil in the region, and to tackle multiple security threats at home, the UK will remain a partner and a friend.

President Trump: State Visit

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ahmed-Sheikh]

I will not, because it would not be fair to everybody else.

The right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) spoke of the path of righteousness—a very noble path indeed—but I fear that we have been here before. Many of us in the Chamber today were at the previous debate, including the hon. Member for Bradford West (Naz Shah), who spoke about inviting President Trump over—he was not then even the candidate for the Republican party—to see how we live in this country and to see our tolerant society, of which we are extremely proud. If anyone really thinks that would make much of a difference, I would comment on their innocence in this matter.

A comment was made about Trump being “refreshing”. I can understand why Government Members find it refreshing when an elected leader actually does what they said they were going to do during their election campaign—they are certainly unfamiliar with that concept—but I find the use of the word “refreshing” in this case rather abhorrent.

That takes me on to the comment made by the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). He asked, “Which one of us hasn’t made a ridiculous sexual comment in the past?” It is unacceptable that he thinks that is the right point to bring to this forum. It is never, ever okay to make comments of a sexual nature to anybody. I know I speak for all the women in this House—if not some of the men too—when I say that we have had enough of it and we are certainly not going to put up with any more of it.

State visits have been an honour bestowed by our monarchy on the heads of states of other nations. This debate is not about how the USA voted—of course it is not. We know there were democratic elections, although President Trump has cast aspersions upon whether some of the people who voted had the right to do so. What this debate is about is who we are as a country made up of four nations. I have to say that I think the voices we can hear outside are perhaps more demonstrative of who we are as a country of many nations than some of the voices we have heard in here today.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

My hon. Friend is making an important point. We respect the right of the Americans to decide their President, but that is not what this debate is about; it is about our values, our constituents and what the situation means to us. If this Parliament is an embodiment of our country’s values, to paraphrase Jane Austen, are the shades of Parliament to be thus polluted?

[Ms Ahmed-Sheikh]

I agree very much with my hon. Friend. There were sighs from Members at the back of the Chamber because I allowed an intervention from her, but I did so because she has not yet spoken in the debate, and it is important that everybody’s voice is heard, not just those of the majority made up by men.

US Immigration Policy

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

It is obvious to the meanest intelligence that we have not complied meekly with this policy but have sought changes and improvements so as to protect the rights of UK nationals and of dual nationals who may have been born in the seven countries that have been identified.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

A country must be judged by the company it keeps. How will the Secretary of State answer should history judge that it took the Prime Minister so long to condemn President Trump’s Executive order because, after cosying up to him, she set off to sign trade deals to arm the increasingly dictatorial and out-of-control President Erdogan?

[Boris Johnson]

I refer the hon. Lady to what I said earlier, but I would add that, while the repercussions of that Executive order were being felt in the US alone, the Prime Minister was in transit to Turkey for another very important visit where she secured a fantastic deal for this country—an agreement to supply Turkey with British-made fighter planes.

Civil Society Space

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Thursday 26th January 2017 Westminster Hall

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. I congratulate the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), who we will hear from later, for securing this debate through the Backbench Business Committee.

I will concentrate on Turkey today. I want to talk about the erosion of civil liberties in that country—one of our most pervasive issues in the EU, particularly because Turkey is on our borders. We do not hear enough about Turkey in the UK media; it seems to be the truth that dares not speak its name.

This debate is especially pertinent at the moment, given that this is a time of great uncertainty. Even in the country that calls itself the leader of the free world, six journalists have been charged with rioting for reporting what happened on President Trump’s inauguration day. America, in President Trump’s tiny hands, faces a very uncertain future. With that as a background, what is happening in Turkey—especially given America’s relations with Turkey—is particularly important.

Turkey should be important to everybody, but it is personally important to me. In the last year, I have travelled there and seen for myself the erosion of civil liberties. Even before the coup, I met representatives of organisations that were already suffering from the crackdown on civil space and the shutting down of organisations in the country.

Indeed, I went to visit Sur, in Diyarbakir, to see what was happening to the Kurdish populace and also to areas such as Cizre and Surnak. I was detained by the Turkish forces for taking a picture of the bombardment. It might have been naive to take a picture of what is a military procedure, but I did it because I had been told by media organisations in this country that the reason why they did not report what was happening to the Kurdish populations in those areas was that they did not have any evidence of what was happening. They needed some reliable testimony, and they would not take it from any of the actors involved. Given that the Turkish state had expelled journalists and prevented them from going into these areas to report on them, we were getting very little from those areas.

This is not about me, but I will say that that experience was the most terrifying of my life. I was dragged off a street behind the demarcation line and taken into a shack filled with guns and people who did not speak any English. I was refused a translator. As I say, it was terrifying. I am in the very fortunate position of being a Member of Parliament: using Google translate, we managed to get that message across to my captors, and the consulate and the embassy did stellar work to get me released. But I am a British Member of Parliament—

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Scottish!

[Natalie McGarry]

Yes—a Scottish Member of Parliament.

[Jim Shannon]

You were right the first time—[Laughter.]

[Natalie McGarry]

I am a Scottish Member of the British Parliament.

I am so fortunate that I could rely on those networks to release me; if I had been a Kurdish activist, a journalist, a member of an NGO, a teacher or a judge, my rights would not have been asserted. I could have been there not for hours but for days, weeks and months, perhaps without trial.

When I was released, Kurdish people were waiting for me because they thought, “You can at least slightly identify with what it is to be grabbed off the street and taken away, for doing nothing more than taking a picture as evidence”—evidence of what, in my opinion, is nothing more than a brutal, ideological attack on the Kurds.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her courage and fortitude in what she does for the Kurdish people in this House and in the meetings that she has personally organised; some of us here have been able to help her. Does she feel that one way of addressing the Kurdish issue is to give the Kurds self-determination in this area and that Turkey, Syria and Iraq need to do just that?

[Natalie McGarry]

That is a very pertinent point. In my opinion, the Turkish state participated very strongly in the breakdown of the peace process in 2015. I think that was very deliberate; in my opinion, the state’s actions since have proven that.

Let us turn to Syria. In Rojava in the northern area, the people are quite clear that they are not trying to create a separate Kurdish state; instead, they are trying to work within the current parameters. If the Turkish Government were to consider some form of federalisation, respecting the identity, culture and language of the Kurdish people, particularly in the south-east of the country, we would get much closer to a peaceful solution. However, while the Turkish Government refuse to do that, we will continue to see the likes of what we have seen in the last few months.

In any kind of democracy, free media, freedom of expression, freedom to protest, judicial freedom and independence, and freedom of assembly are all key rights —the very foundation stone of what it is to be a democracy. Turkey has been celebrated for being a secular state: the bridge between the east and west. That may have been true a number of years ago, but it is certainly not the case now. Under President Erdogan, we are seeing an increasing Islamisation of culture, society, education, the judiciary and the Parliament.

I will read out some numbers. The sheer scale of what has happened in Turkey after the coup and the purge is breathtaking in its enormity. I want people who are listening to this debate to understand. Since 15 July last year, 123,567 public officials have been dismissed; 88,642 people have been detained; 42,452 people have been arrested; 6,986 academics have lost their jobs; 3,843 judges and prosecutors have been dismissed; 151 journalists—some say 200—were arrested; and 3,861 Twitter users were detained and 1,734 arrested. In addition, the following bodies and organisations have been shut: 149 media outlets; 1,284 schools; 800 dormitories; 15 universities; 560 foundations; 54 hospitals; 1,125 associations; and 19 trade unions. In total, 3,520 different entities were shut down.

The remaining media organisations are largely controlled by the Turkish Government—or they are scared, because journalists have already been imprisoned. Next week, Can Dündar—I apologise for my massacring the pronunciation of his name—will come to this House as a guest of PEN, to talk about his experience. He was the co-editor of Cumhuriyet, at the time the biggest selling Turkish newspaper. I met him in the House a few months ago; he is currently exiled from Turkey, because he was sentenced to five years and eight months in prison for reporting that Daesh was being allowed to cross the border and transport oil. He was charged as a traitor and, after months of detention and torture, sentenced to prison.

As I say, Can Dündar is coming here next week. He is an international figure and yet Turkey still has no fear about taking such people into detention. Turkey is not scared of any kind of international condemnation, because it does not hear any international condemnation, certainly not publicly. We should ask why that is. Is it because of the refugee crisis and the fact that it has 2.6 million refugees within its borders, or is it because of the blank cheque for 6 billion euros that it was promised by the EU? Is it because of the threat of refugees coming into EU countries? What does Turkey have that prevents international condemnation of heinous actions, as shown by the figures I have just cited?

Turkey is not a healthy democracy, and I have only just started with the journalists; now I have to move on to the politicians. President Erdogan has changed what was a democracy into a presidential state. He is going through all the rote of that at the moment. He has removed the immunity of the Kurdish HDP MPs. Those representatives were democratically elected in 2015 in two separate elections, and the majority of them have been arrested.

When I was in Diyarbakir, I met with the co-mayors. There is a co-mayor system in the Kurdish areas, because they have gender balance. The co-mayors told me that their offices were raided monthly or fortnightly by the Turkish state trying to find some evidence of a link with the PKK. They came up empty-handed every single time. The representatives’ immunity has been taken away, and Erdogan has granted himself expansive powers as a result of the coup, and the co-mayors have been arrested and have been in prison for months. Mayors, co-mayors and HDP politicians are in prison. Selahattin Demirtas, the co-leader of the HDP, is in prison, snatched in the middle of the night from his home. All have been charged, with absolutely no evidence, with the vague charge of aiding and abetting terrorism.

I had a guest, whose name escapes me—I will correct the record when I remember—who attended Parliament to speak to a group. On his return to Turkey, he was taken into custody. Part of the charges against him was that he had attended the UK Parliament and criticised President Erdogan. More than 1,000 people have been charged with or are in prison for insulting President Erdogan. That sounds Trumpian in terms of having a thin skin, but actually it is terrifying.

I do not know whether Members in the Chamber or people watching recall that just last year, a German comedian was the subject of international press interest. He had mocked President Erdogan with a satirical song he had written. President Erdogan contacted Angela Merkel to demand that the comedian be charged and dismissed from his position. Erdogan was interfering in German democracy, which is absolutely shocking, but Germany did not tell him where to go. Angela Merkel caved to the pressure from Erdogan, which is a damning indictment of the power he seems to have over Europe.

Post-coup, we are living in this reality where people cannot criticise the President. They can be imprisoned and detained without charge. A massive prison-building programme is ongoing, with multiple prisons being built. When I was in Turkey pre-coup, I met with the families of political prisoners. They told me that their relatives were being situated thousands of miles away so that they could not visit. They said that political prisoners were allowed a visit only once every two weeks. They could not take children in with them as no more than one person could go in at a time, in case there was collusion. They had to split the visiting time up, with the mum getting 20 minutes and each child getting 20 minutes. They were not allowed to visit together. Allegations of the sexual assault, rape and torture of political prisoners are rife. There is verifiable testimony that that has occurred.

What is also happening is a social media campaign aimed at closing down social media spaces and threatening journalists and people who disagree with Erdogan. There are bots that, as soon as things are mentioned, send threats to people on social media. After my detention, I received some death threats emanating from Turkey. I was called a PKK terrorist whore. I received threats of rape and sexual violence. Those threats were auto- generated in seconds. I went to the Met police, and they were very reassuring, but within Turkey those threats are particularly made against women and people seen as opponents of Erdogan at all levels. It would be terrifying to be in a country, not knowing who is making those threats. That is further evidence of the use of threats of violence and sexual violence to close down discussion and spaces.

I have spoken for quite a long time. I conclude by talking about what we can do. The right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) made a very interesting point before he had to leave. He said that the civil space and structures exist, and that was one thing that came out of meeting people in Turkey. Civil space in Turkey does exist—NGOs are there, trade unions are there and the structures are still there; it is just that the pressure from above is trying to close them down. There is hope. There are people there and structures that the Government can work with and help support, if they have the desire to do so.

The Prime Minister is meeting with President Erdogan this week. I hope that she goes much further than the Foreign Secretary did when he visited Turkey last year. He said half a sentence about the situation in Turkey. He said that we would like

“a measured and proportionate response”,

which does not go nearly far enough. He spent more time talking about washing machines and trade deals with Turkey than talking about the very real and dangerous civil rights situation there. The UK Government must be seen to be doing more, including standing up for people in Turkey and their relatives around the world, on the impact that Turkey’s actions are having on the closing down of civil space right across the middle east.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Alan Duncan]

From my DFID days and now from my desk in the Foreign Office, the path to peace in Northern Ireland is a fantastic example of how something can be achieved in this field. By taking other countries’ politicians to Northern Ireland to show how it was done, we have made progress in countries such as Nepal, Colombia and potentially Burma, in a slightly different field. Therefore, one cannot exaggerate or over-praise the example of Northern Ireland in having a beneficial effect on other parts of the world that are trying to find a path to peace and security.

I will, however, raise one issue in response to the hon. Member for Glasgow East. I fully understand everything she said, and fully recognise her personal interest and the experience she underwent when she was in Turkey. May I just say to her that she did not say anything about the other side of the picture? I am very familiar with Turkey—I have been there three times since I became a Foreign Office Minister, including a visit of three days after the attempted coup. It is important to experience how traumatic that attempted coup has been to the entire population of Turkey. One has to understand that they went through—they have, through their history, lived through this risk—a day, the equivalent of which in the UK would be like a regiment of the Army driving tanks up Whitehall, shooting people on Westminster bridge, trying to kill the Queen and the Prime Minister, bombing Parliament while it was sitting and taking over the BBC. That is what they went through. One has to understand the trauma and the existential threat of that experience to understand Turkey, and indeed to understand everything that followed, which she described.

[Natalie McGarry]

rose—

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I have not finished. The other point to make about that side of the equation is this: it was not just the one day or one night event on 15 July last year. In the past year, 500 people have been killed in Turkey as a result of terrorist attacks. I find it astonishing that the hon. Lady did not mention the shooting at the nightclub in Istanbul on new year’s eve. I can also tell her from my experience that, as I was walking up to the Ataturk memorial, a suicide bomber had been arrested half an hour before whose target, by his own later admission, happened to be the Ataturk memorial. Those are the threats that that country has to live through every single day.

[Natalie McGarry]

The Minister makes an important point about the other side, but I was merely raising the issue of the Government. I take him to task, however. We are talking not only about what happened subsequent to the coup or the actions of terrorism and the closing down of space, but about the actions of the Government, with the transformation into a presidency and the removal of the hugely important rights of MPs. Post-coup—the very next day—there was a prepared list of people who were removed from their positions. That looks like a predetermined eradication of opposition voices.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

The threat the hon. Lady describes did not start on the day of the attempted coup. This is a country that has to live every day with threats from the PKK, ISIS and the state within a state. I find it unfortunate that she did not choose to mention any of that. None the less I sympathise with her experience of arrest, and I consider it fortunate that she was so ably assisted by Her Britannic Majesty’s Government and the competence and capability of officials in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

Any Government confident of their own legitimacy and their commitment to democracy should allow civil society to operate freely. We will continue to state that position, often privately but often very loudly in public too. We will continue to make the case for civil society to flourish everywhere and to defend it wherever and whenever it is under attack.

Oral Answers to Questions

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sure that the word “inadvertent”, or the word “inadvertently”, was in there somewhere. One cannot accuse other Members of misleading the House.

We now come to topical questions. I remind the House that topical questions are supposed to be brief, and so are the answers.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Boris Johnson)]

My priority for the rest of 2016 is to ensure that there is a robust and measured response to the crisis in Syria, while pressing home our campaign against Daesh and working alongside our allies to protect the rules-based international system against the ambitions of Russia, and to achieve an ambitious and outward-looking global Britain.

[Natalie McGarry]

Military action in Mosul could result in the displacement of 1 million civilians, and the International Committee of the Red Cross has claimed that it can provide for only 300,000 people, with the United Nations providing for 60,000 more. What provisions, measures and plans have been agreed to guarantee civilian safety, the security of food and water resources, and the prevention of a catastrophic humanitarian crisis?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

As I implied in my reply to an earlier question, it is important that we get what happens when the guns fall silent correct. We cannot afford to have a refugee crisis of the scale that has been suggested, which is why the international community has come together on several occasions, including at Washington DC—the Foreign Secretary and I attended—to ensure that we have the necessary measures in place to support those who are fleeing, that any chemical weapons attacks that might take place can be dealt with, and that there will be a form of processing so that we can capture people who have committed war crimes and put them on trial.

Dog Meat (South Korea)

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Alok Sharma]

We talk to a range of organisations, but I am happy to discuss the issue with the hon. Gentleman subsequent to this debate. We certainly know that there is an opportunity and a need to engage, not just with the Government but with charitable organisations.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

Given the great success of the Westminster dog of the year competition last week, of which the Minister spoke so highly, could he have a diplomatic word with his counterpart regarding that great success? Surely it would be a small but significant step in changing attitudes and minds if the South Korean Government also hosted such an event annually.

[Alok Sharma]

The hon. Lady raises an intriguing point. I am sure that many people will be listening with great interest to this debate, including representatives of the South Korean Government, and that they will have heard that very good suggestion.

Several Members commented on the work being done by South Korean politicians. It was reported in July 2016 that, in response to media coverage, the South Korean Agriculture Ministry had launched an investigation into serious abuses at the country’s puppy farms and thousands of other places where dogs are raised for meat. A meeting was held at the South Korean National Assembly in August to discuss revision of the Animal Protection Act, and I understand that an amendment may be tabled sometime this autumn.

What else are the UK Government doing to tackle the scourge of appalling welfare conditions experienced by many dogs? We face limitations. As hon. Members have noted, the consumption of dog meat is not illegal in South Korea and a number of other countries, dogs are not an internationally protected species and, of course, the UK has no jurisdiction to take action in countries where the practice is legal. However, I agree that although we have no legal jurisdiction, we can and do still work hard to make our views known to the South Korean Government and press for change.

Our ambassador in Seoul has raised the issue of animal welfare, and the dog meat trade in particular, with the South Korean authorities on several occasions, and has stressed the desire in the UK to see the practice brought to an end. Our reputation as a nation of animal lovers means that we can make a strong case for dogs as pets rather than as food. We raise with South Korea our concerns about the conditions in which dogs in the dog meat trade are kept.

We are also working with charities operating in South Korea, both to encourage improvement of those conditions and to encourage dog farmers to seek other sources of income, a point made by the hon. Member for Belfast East. The UK charity Change for Animals Foundation offers dog farmers alternative avenues for income, buys their animals and sends the dogs to rescue centres around the globe. Farmers who take part in the scheme sign a legally binding contract preventing them from rearing dogs in the future. In April, officials from our embassy in Seoul visited a dog farm with the charity. The farmer had more than 250 dogs that he agreed to sell to the charity and start a scrap metal business instead, using the cages left over from the farm. Other previous dog meat traders have switched to other pursuits, including beekeeping. We will continue to support the work of that charity.

Health risks have been discussed. Although we want an end to the eating of dog meat and to the dog meat trade itself, until that happens we want to encourage the South Korean Government to improve regulation in the industry—the shadow Minister alluded to that as well—not just on animal welfare grounds, but due to the risks to human health associated with anti-microbial resistance when antibiotics used in livestock farming enter the food chain. It has been reported that the use of antibiotics in the dog meat trade is widespread in South Korea. Although the World Health Organisation recognises that the use of antibiotics in livestock farming is a concern, no research is currently available on the impact of AMR caused by the use of antibiotics in the dog meat trade.

The UK is an international leader on tackling AMR and is committed to full implementation of the 2015 global action plan. We will host an AMR event in New York at the UN General Assembly later this month, and we have invited South Korea to take part. Several hon. Members discussed changes in attitude in other countries in south-east Asia. When we talk about the health risks of eating dog meat, it is worth noting that in 2013 the Philippines outlawed the consumption and sale of dog meat in an attempt to prevent the spread of rabies.

Several hon. Members mentioned the forthcoming winter Olympics in Pyeongchang in 2018. High-profile global events such as Olympic games can be a catalyst for positive change. The South Korean Government will be aware that the high profile of the winter games could cast a spotlight on issues such as the dog meat trade, and we will continue our dialogue with them on it.

The hon. Member for Bristol East raised the issue of human rights. I want to make it clear that we regularly raise human rights issues with relevant countries where we have concerns; I have done so myself in my two months as a Minister. The Department for International Trade is now in the same building as my Department, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and we have a regular dialogue, but I will certainly take the hon. Lady’s points on board.

We will continue to work with the devolved Administrations to ensure that all Governments in the UK do as much as possible to promote animal welfare standards in the UK. We will also continue to work with our international partners.

Pedigree racing dogs were also mentioned. The animal reception centre at Heathrow plays an incredibly important role in enforcing the regulations that protect animal welfare during transport. In May, the centre prevented greyhounds from Ireland from being transported to China, because their cages were deemed too small to meet the requirements designed to protect the welfare of animals during transport on planes. We do take action where we see the need.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) asked what checks there are on meat that comes into the UK and whether there is any contamination of the food chain. Given what has happened in the past, that is a perfectly relevant question. Any meat imported into the UK, or indeed into the EU, has to be accompanied by a health certificate to attest that it has met certain requirements. The UK has strict procedures in place to prevent meat such as dog meat from entering the food chain.

A point was raised about the work of Humane Society International and whether the Government are interacting with it. I can confirm that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is funding an HSI project in Vietnam, through the UK Government’s illegal wildlife trade challenge fund. However, the Government are not working directly with HSI on the issue of dog meat.

This has been an incredibly important and wide-ranging debate, in which Members have raised some incredibly important points. I am absolutely sure that people outside the House who have watched the debate will have understood the strength of feeling of Members of Parliament and of the many others present today. I assure the House that, although the dog meat trade and the practice of eating dog meat may not be illegal, there is nothing to stop us from raising our concerns about it with the South Korean Government or other Governments, as we have done in the past and will continue to do.

More widely, the UK remains committed to its global leadership role in helping to tackle the illegal wildlife trade. We will continue to work to raise standards of animal welfare across the world and to end animal cruelty wherever it prevails. Governments and peoples around the world listen to the views expressed in the British Parliament, and I am certain that this debate—and the heartfelt contributions from all hon. Members present—will be another significant milestone on the road to helping to improve the welfare of dogs and, ultimately, to ending the dog meat trade itself.

Turkey

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Sir Alan Duncan]

My hon. Friend points out the potential consequences of certain courses of action, on which it is too early to form a judgment. It is absolutely true, however, that judges are necessary for a functioning judiciary, so we look forward to seeing that there is a functioning, independent judiciary that can properly apply the rule of law.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

I welcome the Minister to his place. EU Commissioner Johannes Hahn has expressed concern that the swift round-up of judges after the failed coup indicates that Erdogan had a pre-existing list of enemies, suggesting that much of Turkey’s response is predicated on score-settling. That mirrors the trends in recent years of suppression of free speech and civil liberties, of putting down political opponents and of fighting a brutal war against the Kurds. Will the Minister impress upon President Erdogan that the upholding of human rights and the rule of law is more important now than ever?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Yes, I will. Three days after this attempted coup, it is inevitable that there will be lots of speculative judgments about what was planned, what was pre-planned, whether there was a previous list and so on. It is impossible to know these things at this stage, which is one reason why I look forward to visiting, but the Government will speak out very strongly for human rights and for the equal and proper treatment of all citizens in Turkey.

Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

I have visited Iraq recently, and I visited a country in economic meltdown because of the ongoing conflict in both Iraq and Syria. Iraq is still riven by religious sectarianism, led by what has been described to me as a corrupt and patriarchal family looting the country of its assets and getting rich on its hard-won natural resources. It is a country that has fought and is still losing against al-Qaeda, and that is now in the thrall of Daesh, which has crossed the border into Syria. It is a country where more than 200 people died in a car bomb two weeks ago with barely a mention in this place. Where are the half-mast flags? Where is the Iraqi anthem at football games?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. My apologies to the hon. Lady, but I should have done her the courtesy of telling her what I think she knows, which is that the time limit is now four minutes.

[Natalie McGarry]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am going through my speech quickly.

Where is the collective grief? Are we so inured to Iraqi deaths? Iraq is a country that cannot control its own borders; a country where its own people—the Yazidis—were, by most accounts, abandoned by Iraqi Government forces and left to Daesh; a country where men and boys were murdered and women and girls raped and passed into sexual slavery. That is the reality of modern, post-invasion Iraq. Is it better or worse than the Saddam regime? It would be entirely careless to speculate, as both are too horrendous to contemplate, and we should not have had to.

When the US and the UK planned for war—and they did indeed plan—peace should have been their objective, but damningly, Chilcot shows that it was the only objective that they did not plan for. I have heard many Members use the attacks against the Kurds as justification for the war on Iraq in 2003. The appalling attack on Halabja and Saddam’s use of chemical weapons on about 5,000 Kurds took place in 1988. The UK is alleged, with strong evidence—and the US too—to have continued to trade weapons to Iraq up to 1991. Then there was the first Gulf war. If enforcing regime change was ever appropriate or legal, that was the opportunity to do so with international support, yet the UK and the US allowed the brutal regime and dictatorship of Saddam Hussain to continue.

This House recently supported airstrikes on Syria, on flimsy evidence at best of 70,000 moderate ground forces actively opposing Daesh forces—the most active of them being the Kurdish YPJ and the YPG—yet it consistently fails to support my calls and those of others that the PYD of Rojava, the Kurds, should be given a place at peace talks on the future of Syria. Where is the support for the Kurds who are at the frontline of the battle against Daesh? It is hypocrisy.

The decision to go to war should be the most seriously contended proposition in this place. It should be the most rigorously tested, with every facet and every piece of intelligence investigated and every ramification explored. Chilcot has eventually exposed the myth about what happened, but a close look at the facts would have revealed the evidence to be flawed.

When this place sends men and women to war without adequate resources, sending some of them into perilous danger ill equipped and improperly attired, there is collective guilt. When the result of that decision is the death of soldiers serving their country and the indiscriminate deaths of innocent civilians—directly or indirectly caused by our military actions—the responsibility for that lies here, in this place, which should have more rigorously challenged the then Prime Minister and the intelligence that was presented.

The cost of the Iraq war is far greater than the £9 billion that the UK Government spent on the conflict. It is the 179 dead British service personnel, the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed, the 1 million people displaced and the destabilisation of the middle east, the consequences of which we can see to this day.

We can all profess to regret what happened—indeed, I am sure that everyone does—but if lessons are not learned and we do not correct the collective arrogance that has meant thumbing our nose at the UN and at international partners, mocking them, deriding them and ignoring them, we will repeat the mistakes of the past and the loss of those lives will be even more in vain.

UK Involvement in Rendition

Natalie McGarry Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Carmichael]

Of course, I take the right hon. Gentleman’s assurance—indeed, I have to because there is not an awful lot else that we can know about this. However, given the nature of the information that is now in the public domain about authorisation or the request for authorisation from the suspect who has just been told by the CPS that he will not be the subject of prosecution, that is not something that it is appropriate for a Committee of this House to be doing. It is something that requires to be done by a body that is seen to be independent of Parliament and of party, as the Prime Minister himself said in 2010.

Beyond the matters about which I have spoken this evening, there are outstanding questions about the use of Diego Garcia for rendition flights. The same batch of documents discovered by Human Rights Watch included CIA flight plans that indicated that the US intended to use Diego Garcia as a stop-over. Will the Minister tell the House why the Government continue to block the release of flight records that could settle once and for all the extent of the use of that territory for rendition? Then there is the reported letter from the then head of MI5 to the Prime Minister complaining about what had gone on in Libya. Clearly, there is no shortage of material for an inquiry to be considering.

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. Does he share my concern that as late as 2013 research from the universities of Kingston and Kent identified 13 instances where Scottish airports had been used for CIA renditions? Will he echo my hope that, when the Minister responds, he will confirm that the Government were aware or have become aware of that? Will he confirm whether they sanctioned that and whether they will fully investigate with a Police Scotland inquiry?

[Mr Carmichael]

I would hope that that would be the case. I suspect it might be a forlorn hope, but we shall see when the Minister comes to the Dispatch Box. Certainly I think there would need to be some very good reason if the Government were not to co-operate with a police inquiry, and at the moment I do not see what that would be.

If ever there was a case where sunlight was needed for the purpose of disinfectant, this is it. Only by thorough investigation and disclosure of what has been done in our name, by whom and on whose authority, can we ever have confidence that this sort of thing will never be allowed to happen again.

Let us remember the words of Khadija al-Saadi with which I opened this debate tonight. The al-Saadi family were compensated by our Government to the tune of £2.2 million of taxpayers’ money. A further compensation claim by another family is currently before the courts. It was reported at the weekend that the Government so far have spent £600,000 in legal fees defending that case, although the plaintiffs are prepared to settle for £3 and an apology for what was done to them.

Khadija al-Saadi is now in her mid-twenties. She describes herself and her siblings as

“the future of our country, and the future of this region.”

She goes on to say:

“That future, though, needs to be based on a full admission of what has taken place in the past. No one has ever explained to me who was to blame for what happened to my family.”

She is right.

That explanation is needed and not just for the al-Saadi family, but for others and all in this country who care about the rule of law and the standing of our nation in the world. I believe the Minister cares about these things, and that is why he should act.