The Riots

Debate between Nick de Bois and Chi Onwurah

Thursday 13th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell) on securing the debate. When we compare the contributions so far with the debate in August, it is clear that they reflect a different mood and the thought that has gone into the issue since the riots.

I am conscious of the time, so let me briefly profile the two evenings we experienced in Enfield. I was fortunate—that might sound odd—to witness first hand much of what happened on the first evening. The damage on the Sunday—the first so-called copycat riot—essentially affected the main high street in Enfield town. We should have a clear understanding of what the borough of Enfield is like, because it is not, in its entirety, a typical old-fashioned suburban area. Indeed, some wards have the highest levels of deprivation in Europe. Equally, and strangely, however, many of the incidents took place in the market town area of Enfield town, which is regarded as more prosperous. The high street was completely damaged, and we lost many of the retail stores that one would usually expect to see, including, sadly, a department store that had been trading in the area for more than 35 years, which had its whole frontage damaged.

The arrest data originally pointed to a 50:50 ratio between people from inside and outside the borough. I am, however, conscious of the need not to mislead Parliament, and I should say that this is still a moving picture. Indications suggest that the ratio between people from inside and outside the borough is more like 60:40. However, it is an interesting dynamic, and perhaps the most notable journey undertaken by someone who came for the riots was from Twickenham, which is, of course, on the other side of London.

The youth and adult data are becoming particularly prominent in our discussions. Based on the arrest records, it looks as if about 22% of the offenders who were arrested in Enfield were under 18, but I will say more about that later, if I may.

On the cost, there was not just the immediate cost of the damage. Parts of the borough, which saw riots early on, on the Sunday, closed down early for the following 10 days out of a fear of repeat damage. That meant that traders experienced an extended period of lost business. However, the biggest damage was to our reputation in Enfield. The one thing many people will not forget is the damage to the 250,000 square feet Sony warehouse in the north-east of the borough, which burned for more than a week after the riots. Sadly, that has put at risk up to 250 jobs.

The good news is that the community response to the riots has been nothing short of spectacular. In my discussions with Sony, it has demonstrated a genuine commitment to try to stay in the local area, using its skilled work force. Given the crisis management that it would have needed after the riots, that demonstrates a remarkable leap of good faith, and we hope that it will be successful in its plans to stay.

As regards what we saw on the streets of Enfield, I was enormously impressed by the response from the community. Enfield actually opened for business while riots were still going on in other parts of the country. As a result, community cohesion benefited. I was enormously impressed with the community’s leaders, who came together to work with and support the police in the aftermath of the riots. The general relationship between the police and the public, who were very much in evidence in the morning following the riots, has proved a real bonus to the town.

I should draw attention to access to finance, and I have a question for the Minister. Can we have an update on how much finance victims of the riots, including the businesses that suffered, have accessed? The proportion of victims in Enfield who have accessed finance is currently extremely low. Our neighbourhood and business community showed grim determination in getting on with things and opening as quickly as possible, although I accept that, aside from what we saw at Sony, the damage we suffered was nothing like that suffered in the constituencies of Members representing Croydon. However, it would be useful to know where we are on access to finance.

I may be agreeing with the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford), and I hope that will not embarrass him. I have shifted my opinion slightly. I was firmly in the camp that saw these events as pure criminal behaviour, and I hope Members will understand why. Anyone who stood with residents on the streets and witnessed gangs of marauding thugs trashing the town and people’s gardens before jumping into their souped-up cars clutching their loot to drive away and cause more damage elsewhere would understand people’s intense anger. I shared that anger, and I believed that what we had seen was nothing less than pure criminal behaviour, but I accept that, when one looks at these things in context, there are other issues to address. Indeed, I will be happy to address them shortly and, I assure Members, briefly.

In my discussions with the police, we identified three types of rioters. There was the G8 rioter—the person who was, as far as we could tell, probably behind much of the social media organisation. They came simply to trash the corporate stores and lay waste to businesses, however small or large. The police tell me that there was also an element who were simply there for a fight with them, and that is what sparked the serious events, such as the overturning of a public disorder van carrying a number of police—actually, they did not quite overturn it, but they certainly trashed it. Then there were the looters. However, among those were many people who were caught up simply because they were present. Gracia McGrath, the chief executive of an early intervention charity, Chance UK, said:

“Let me put it in context. If you are 10 or 11 years old, and you go out on the streets not knowing whether or not to join it, and you see adults, some of whom you know (mothers, learning assistants and postmen have been amongst the people arrested so far) setting fire to property, looting and throwing stones at the police, why would you think it was wrong?”

I thought about that comment, and I think there is significant truth in it. Young people who were involved were initially entirely demonised but, considering the context of what they witnessed being done by so-called responsible adults, I have tempered my views, and I believe that we have much more work to do in early intervention programmes to secure the future for some younger children than I first thought. I acknowledge that.

Nevertheless, hon. Members will understand that I welcome the stiff penalties that were given. There is no question in my mind but that anything less would have been an invitation to do more of the same. I accept the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) that it is entirely up to the courts to undertake the sentencing process. If hon. Members feel that some sentences were extreme, the due process of appeal will deal with that. It is not for politicians or others to interfere.

I am a school governor and have seen that there are children who have a family background that would not be recognised by anyone in this Chamber as a family. I have become acutely aware of the link between such backgrounds and the growing trend for youngsters to get engaged in gangs. It does not surprise me that there is evidence to suggest that some co-ordination, rioting and looting happened in areas affected by gangs. At the moment, gangs will sometimes look to primary school children who have no sense of order, boundaries or discipline in their homes—such as they are. The gangs offer an alternative environment for them. The work that the Government are now focused on, to deal with gangs in early intervention programmes, will bring major, significant improvements to our country in the next few years.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his interesting and thoughtful analysis of some of the root causes of the summer riots. We were grateful that there were no riots in my constituency, but I urge hon. Members not to forget that many of the factors identified as underlying causes of riots are still present in places that did not riot. Early intervention and other programmes should be considered on a nationwide basis, and not simply in reaction to events.

[Nick de Bois]

I thank the hon. Lady; it is all too easy to focus on areas where there were riots, and not to recognise that there may be issues elsewhere.

I welcome the work of Enfield council, where a cross-party team has been put together to try, essentially, to answer the question “Why Enfield?” Why was Enfield one of the areas hit by riots? Why did the participants choose to riot, and what was the make-up of the group of rioters? The youth offending service is undertaking excellent work with those who have offended, by talking to them and asking them those simple questions—not remotely or on paper, but in one-to-one interviews. That information will be made available to the Enfield council cross-party group, which I am sure is looking forward to seeing it.

I still think we must be patient to understand fully what went on. There was tremendous unwanted and criminal behaviour, which should have been punished. The context—and I welcome the tone of today’s debate—is that we are right to examine a little deeper the causes of what happened.