Health and Social Care Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[David Wright (Telford) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Will you find out from the parliamentary authorities whether the monitors are working throughout the parliamentary estate? Only one Liberal Democrat Back Bencher is present, and, given that the Liberal Democrats have laid claim to significant alterations to the Bill, it is very important that they are in the Chamber.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Good try, but let us move on.

[Mr Burns]

I beg to move,

That the following provisions shall apply to the Health and Social Care Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 31 January 2011 (Health and Social Care Bill (Programme)):

Re-committal

1. The Bill shall be re-committed to the Public Bill Committee to which it previously stood committed in respect of the following Clauses and Schedules—

(a) in Part 1, Clauses 1 to 6, 9 to 11, 19 to 24, 28 and 29 and Schedules 1 to 3;

(b) in Part 3, Clauses 55, 56, 58, 59, 63 to 75, 100, 101, 112 to 117 and 147 and Schedules 8 and 9;

(c) in Part 4, Clauses 149, 156, 165, 166 and 176;

(d) in Part 5, Clauses 178 to 180 and 189 to 193 and Schedule 15;

(e) in Part 8, Clause 242;

(f) in Part 9, Clause 265;

(g) in Part 11, Clauses 285 and 286;

(h) in Part 12, Clauses 295, 297 and 298.

2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee on re-committal shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 14 July 2011.

3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day it meets.

Let me say at the outset that, because of the number of Members who wish to speak in the debate, I will take only a small number of interventions and will respond to them briefly.

The vital importance of our national health service cannot be overstated, nor can the Government’s determination to do all in our power to make it as good as it can be for the patients who depend on it by putting patients at the centre of care and putting outcomes first—outcomes such as survival rates, speed of recovery, and the ability to lead a full and independent life. The Health and Social Care Bill represents a bold evolutionary programme of essential modernisation: a programme—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. I know that passions are running high, but it is important that we hear the Minister.

[Mr Burns]

It is a programme that will end the culture of processed targets and diktats from politicians and of putting the convenience of institutions above the needs of patients.

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[Mr Burns]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Hold on. Keep calm. I am absolutely certain that the Minister is about to move on to the programme motion.

[Mr Burns]

If Opposition Members were more interested in listening than in trying to be disruptive, they would discover that after setting the scene I will deal precisely with the recommittal and our reasons for proposing it.

We will replace that culture with a bottom-up culture of clinical leadership and patient choice and an unfaltering focus on improving health outcomes.

While there has always been widespread agreement on the principles of modernisation—a fact that even the shadow Secretary of State now accepts—there have been concerns in some quarters that the Bill could support those principles better.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Some of us wish to talk about the programme motion that we are supposed to be debating, and indeed to intervene on the Minister if he will give way, as he said that he would at the outset. Can the Minister be persuaded to discuss the motion that is before the House?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Several Members wish to participate in this very short debate. It will last for only an hour, and we are already well into that hour. Will the Minister now refer directly to the programme motion?

[Mr Burns]

Absolutely, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Given our commitment to, and the paramount importance of, the NHS, we decided to take the unprecedented step of pausing at an appropriate point in the legislative process. The independent Future Forum produced its report. We shall be able to make some changes to our plans that will not require legislation, but a number of changes will need to be scrutinised again by a Committee. All our proposed changes will be subject to further detailed parliamentary scrutiny through a further Committee stage and on Report. We propose—

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

That is just an extension of the debate. I reiterate that we have only one hour to debate this programme motion, so may we make progress? May I also ask Members to calm down, because I am finding it difficult to listen to the Minister?

[Mr Burns]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and you can rest assured that I am doing my bit. If only Opposition Members would listen, they would get the plot.

As the changes we are making are substantial and significant, we have decided to recommit relevant parts of the Bill to Committee. I can tell the House that we expect to make around 160 amendments to the Bill, which we will table in good time. We will also go further and publish briefing notes to help explain the amendments to parliamentarians and those who follow our proceedings outside.

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[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I tabled a named day question to the Minister, of which he is aware, in which he made it very clear that the changes to the Bill that he says relate to the recommendations of the Future Forum were in fact—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Please resume your seat. That is not a matter for the Chair; it is an extension of the debate. Yet again I reiterate that we are now 13 minutes into a one-hour debate and we have yet to hear from the shadow Minister and a number of Back Benchers who wish to participate, so, please, could we restrain bogus points of order—that is No. 1 —and could we also have more quiet?

[Mr Burns]

As I was saying, although the pause may have ended, we will never stop listening. [Laughter.] That is why a team of top health experts will continue to provide independent advice to the Government. [Interruption.] It is extraordinary, Mr Deputy Speaker, that hon. Members giggle and scream hysterically when they do not like what they hear. What they will not accept is that we did listen through the independent forum—we listened, we strengthened the Bill and they do not like it that more people and more organisations outside the House now believe that the plans that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State introduced have been strengthened and will meet the needs of a modernised health service. That is the problem. That is why they are behaving in that way.

Of course, we need to give right hon. and hon. Members ample opportunity to examine the amendments in detail, but unnecessary delays will only cause harm for patients and add to the pressure on hospitals and commissioners as they make their modernisation plans. They will prevent clinicians on the ground from making the changes they believe will help to improve and save people’s lives. That is why we can have proper scrutiny through the recommittal of the parts of the Bill we are changing, as outlined in the motion, and I urge my hon. Friends and the House to accept it.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Many Members wish to participate and there is only half an hour left, so long speeches would not be appropriate, to be fair to Back Benchers.