Powers of Attorney Bill

Patrick Grady Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 17th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

A very happy St Patrick’s Day to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe) on the progress his Bill has made. I think all of us are quite relieved that we have made it to Third Reading at a respectable pace, after the House unanimously agreed on earlier Bills, particularly the Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill, which was of great concern to many of my constituents and people across the country.

It has been a slightly unexpected pleasure to serve on the Public Bill Committee and then to follow the progress of the Bill. We do these things as favours to each other sometimes and then find that a Bill piques our interest and there is even more we can take forward. As the hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock and others have recognised, powers of attorney provisions are increasingly valuable in the modern world, especially as the population ages and we interact in different ways with authorities and institutions. The Bill will make that process easier, especially for people in England. It will also introduce important new safeguards.

Most of the legislation in this area is devolved, and there are a number of differences between power of attorney provisions north and south of the border, but the Bill makes a number of changes in devolved areas. Despite the Government’s assessment in the explanatory notes, the Scottish Government have chosen to bring forward a legislative consent motion and a legislative consent memorandum. Private Members’ Bills are done slightly differently, but where the Government are keen to facilitate the passage of a Bill, they should perhaps make sure that officials north of the border are fully apprised of that, so that things can move as quickly as possible.

The Scottish Government intend to use that memorandum and motion to consent to the Bill, because they recognise the importance of the smooth operation of powers of attorney north and south of the border. The legislative consent memorandum says in paragraph 12:

“Consent is recommended, because the Bill is aligned with the Scottish Government’s emphasis on increasing accessibility to obtaining a power of attorney. As noted above, the changes that apply to Scotland will allow the record in the register of LPAs maintained by the Public Guardian in England and Wales to be used as sufficient proof of the contents of an instrument in any part of the United Kingdom including Scotland.”

That is an important provision in terms of the recognition of powers of attorney north and south of the border, and the Minister and I have had useful exchanges in Committee and since then about how Scottish powers of attorney are recognised in England.

The website of the Office of the Public Guardian in Scotland notes that a Scottish power of attorney

“can be used in England or Wales if an Organisation (e.g. a bank) accepts its authority, but if they do not things are more problematic. The Organisation may require an endorsement of the Scottish PoA from the English authorities”.

As I say, the Minister and I have had exchanges on this, and he has recognised in a letter to me that there is a need to ensure that institutions and organisations are aware of the legal status of Scottish powers of attorney in England and Wales. I hope he might be willing to put a copy of that letter in the Library of the House, so that other Members can see the detail. I accept that this Bill in particular is not the vehicle, and he argues that legislative change generally is probably not needed; it is more about raising awareness and understanding.

That is particularly important, not least because all of us will encounter the use of powers of attorney in the years to come. For many of us, that will be in our roles; the issue of cross-border recognition has cropped up in my casework from time to time. Increasingly, we will all find interactions with powers of attorney in our personal lives as well.

The Bill strengthens and simplifies the system for obtaining and using a power of attorney, especially in England. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman, and the Minister and his team, on their success in securing its passage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Clarkson]

Being a good friend of his wife, I am sure she will be very pleased and putting roller skates at the top of the stairs after that date—[Laughter.]

The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) made the interesting point that in some circumstances people do not recognise or accept Scottish lasting powers of attorney. As he probably knows, I got my legal education at Dundee, which is one of the few universities that dual-qualifies its students, so I have a particular interest in ensuring that the two jurisdictions work as closely together as they can. The reality is that most people, when relying on a legal instrument, do not really care whether it is a solicitor in Glasgow or Manchester; they just want to know that their loved one will be looked after. Similarly, people move across the border and have family on both sides. I would welcome a conversation with the hon. Gentleman outside this debate about how we can streamline the process to ensure that this place and the devolved Administrations have some sort of framework to allow it to work properly. I appreciate that there is a legislative consent motion for the Bill.

[Patrick Grady]

I am happy to pick this up with the hon. Gentleman. We recognise that the Bill is not quite the vehicle to deal with this issue in legislative terms, but it has shone a light on the importance of mutual recognition south of the border and of people having powers of attorney in the first place. I assure him that we are all working together on this, and there is consensus.

[Chris Clarkson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and completely agree; there is an outbreak of consensus across the House. These are such important and necessary changes.

I am pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock has made provision for maintaining the paper route, with a fluid system in which it is possible to use both paper and digital. It is not just older people who sometimes struggle with accessing or using technology, although I have been approached repeatedly by constituents who are upset or concerned that they are not able to access the full range of services from various providers for that reason. There is also a digital divide. I represent a constituency that is not particularly affluent. There are people who simply do not have access to the technology or might not have had sufficient training in using it to feel confident going through this process, whereas if somebody can sit down with them and go through a form, they have the certainty that it is being dealt with properly, so I am pleased that my hon. Friend has maintained that route.

The Bill strikes the balance between improving the efficiency and processing times of applications and minimising the dangers of fraud. These circumstances are never easy—they are often some of the most heartbreaking and challenging situations, where loved ones are simply losing capacity and people have to make difficult decisions about what happens to them next. The Bill is a step in the right direction. It eases the burdens on individuals and takes away some of that difficulty and stress. It removes some of the expense, which blocks some people from accessing this, and gives people flexibility and choice. I strongly commend the Bill to the House and thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock for his diligent work on it.