Drugs Policy

Paul Flynn Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Ainsworth]

No, I do not agree, and those figures will not bear scrutiny. That is what we ought to do—scrutinise what the hon. Gentleman has just said. We ought to bring some reason to bear, rather than make simple allegations and claims.

Everyone said that, when we reclassified, cannabis use would go through the roof. There is utterly and absolutely no evidence for that—quite the reverse. Cannabis use, according to all the evidence that I have seen and heard—others are far bigger experts than I am—went down in that period. The reclassification had no impact. When we reclassified cannabis back to class B, it had no impact again. All the scaremongering about the reclassification of cannabis was uncalled for and proved to be incorrect.

Cocaine use, however, has gone up, because that has been the fashionable drug in recent years—it is a darn sight more dangerous than cannabis. Cocaine use has gone up, but we never reclassified cocaine. If the hon. Gentleman is positing an argument for reclassification making an ounce of difference to the levels of use, he is in real trouble.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his courage and vision, and it is a pleasure to be here today. Does he not agree, having heard the nonsensical intervention from the hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths), that the classifications have almost nothing to do with use of the drug concerned? A huge amount of energy has been spent talking about and legislating on the classifications, but the real tragedy is that in every year of the past 39 years, the waste of lives in Britain has increased, from 1,000 addicts in 1971 to 320,000 now. We have the worst outcomes and the harshest penalties of any country in Europe. Does he not agree that there must be a better way?

[Mr Ainsworth]

I will move on to some of those issues later in my speech. The only point on which I disagree with my hon. Friend is his use of the term “nonsensical”, because we really must get away from flinging insults when discussing the matter. In the days ahead, many insults will be flung at me by sections of the right-wing press, which I knew would happen when I raised the subject, but it will be a great shame if we cannot have a more serious debate on that most serious issue.

I have had some busy jobs in the past few years and so might not be as current as I was a short time ago, but I have always argued that the regulatory framework adopted in different countries makes little difference to their levels of drug use. Sweden has a hard attitude to drugs and relatively low drug use. Italy has a softer attitude and relatively low drug use. We have a very hard attitude and relatively high drug use. Holland has a relatively liberal regime and a high incidence of drug use. That tells us that the regulatory framework has little effect on the levels of drug use in those countries.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

It is a joy among reasonable people to hear one prohibitionist talking good sense. That can be a turning point in the national conversation on this subject. My right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) is not the first former drugs Minister to say that he disagrees with his policy in office. I collaborated with the late Mo Mowlam on a book about her views in and out of office, although, sadly, her illness overtook her. My part of that book has been published, and I can commend it unreservedly to hon. Members who are looking for an intelligent Christmas present for the discerning reader—it is all there. However, I will not burden hon. Members with that this afternoon, because I have had ample opportunities to give my views on that subject in the past.

My qualification for speaking today is that I have been in favour of the policy my right hon. Friend has described for more than 25 years. I have strongly advocated decriminalisation and legalisation throughout my parliamentary career. I agree with what he said about politics. It has been a great advantage to me to advocate such a policy. The results in Newport West at the last election show that if I had experienced the same swing against Labour as all my colleagues in neighbouring constituencies, I would not be standing here now.

I admire the present Prime Minister of Portugal, because he is a man of courage and principle. When he introduced his policy as a Minister, it was highly unpopular; indeed, it was not popular in his own party, and it certainly was not popular with the press or the public. However, he went ahead, and his policy is now supported by all parties in the Portuguese Parliament.

Yesterday, Joao Castel-Branco Goulao, Portugal’s drugs tsar, visited the House and gave an account of what happened when the country de-penalised all drugs. The law came into effect in 2001. By 2005, it had halved the number of drug deaths—imagine that! The procedure is complicated, and I will not go into it entirely, but the Cato Institute did an assessment of it, which was published in Time magazine last year.

Every outcome of de-penalisation in Portugal has been positive. Seizures of big quantities of drugs have increased greatly because the authorities are not bothering with tiny quantities of drugs for personal use. The prison population has decreased, which has saved a fortune in prison and court costs, and the use of every category of drug has been reduced. The policy has been a huge success.

The point that I want to make is that we are on the verge of a breakthrough and a positive measure. I do not want to repeat the old argument—I have wasted many hours on it—between the prohibitionists and the pragmatists, who have a go at one another before retreating to their own silos, with no progress having been made. There has been success, and I say that as the current chairman of the Council of Europe’s sub-committee on health and the Council’s rapporteur on drugs for more than a decade.

I have visited more than 20 countries to look at their drug policy, and put forward numerous papers. The one that will be a success is a new convention on drugs, which I introduced in 2005 and which has gone through the great whale of a bureaucracy in the Council of Europe and European politics. I believe that next year it will become a convention that all the 47 countries of the Council of Europe will be asked to ratify.

The convention has already been approved—unanimously voted on by 47 countries in the Council of Europe. It has had the approval of the Red Cross and 150 countries in the world have supported it. It has gone through the Pompidou Group, which has the reputation of being very conservative. Having had the approval of the Council of Europe, it is being assessed by two international think-tanks.

It is based on this: I despair of ever getting the Nordic view in line with the southern Mediterranean view, of Portugal, Italy and Spain—or of the Netherlands and Switzerland. That will not happen; but if the different views are regarded as circles, there is a point where they intersect. That point is where the convention will be built—on that common knowledge.

Everyone will disagree on many factors, at the extreme of each side. We shall not get people to agree on decriminalisation, I am afraid, in the foreseeable future; but we can get people to agree on stopping the waste of believing that the criminal justice system is a good-value, effective way of dealing with addicts. Every country in Europe knows it does not work, yet we pursue it and spend billions on it.

[Mike Weatherley]

The hon. Gentleman was talking about the Nordic view and Portugal; is he aware of the Swiss model? The four-fold approach that they have is:

“Prevention, law enforcement, treatment and harm reduction”.

Everyone in this House would, of course, agree that the last—harm reduction—is the ultimate goal.

[Paul Flynn]

I am very much aware of it. I did a scientific analysis some eight years ago of what was happening in drug production in four countries—Switzerland, Sweden, Britain and the Netherlands. It was an attempt to examine the effects and the level of drug abuse. On one point I disagree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East: the level of drug use in Holland is lower than it is here. Sweden, from a very low base, had the biggest increase. The United Kingdom came out worst, and it remains the worst in all outcomes. Switzerland has tried a number of brave experiments, particularly in the way of prescribing heroin. That has been a great success as a way of reducing crime.

However, I want to mention our greatest failure internationally, and the one I feel despair about. I have addressed the Commonwealth of Independent States, the former communist bodies. The worst thing that has happened internationally on drugs concerns them, because when the Berlin wall fell, none of the communist countries had a drug problem; many had alcohol problems, but none had a drug problem. They came to us and said, “You in the west have had this problem for a long time. You guys know about it. What do we do? How do we deal with drugs?”

But instead of getting a formula in which we said, “Well, this has worked,” those countries got back a babble of conflicting views from all parts of Europe. They repeated our remedies and inherited our problems. Those states have 25 million addicts now. If we had adopted a model that worked 10 or 25 years ago, we could have handed it on. I believe that such a model exists in its best state in Portugal now.

I urge all hon. Members to approach the matter with an open mind. I have memories of previous debates of this kind, and in particular of David Mellor, in about 1990, announcing that we could be absolutely certain of one thing—that heroin use had peaked. We had about 90,000 addicts then. When I spoke on the subject about 18 months ago, the number was 280,000, and it is now 320,000.

I recall another debate—we used to have a three-hour debate on Friday mornings—when the Government and Opposition spokesmen had to leave the Chamber because they both needed a fix of the addictive drug to which they were enslaved; they both needed to go out and smoke. I am sure that later in the evening they would wander off to any of the 16 bars in this place, decrying young people’s use of drugs—with a cigarette in one hand, a glass of whisky in the other, and a couple of paracetamol in their top pockets for the headache that they were going to get the next morning.

We behave with hypocrisy and incompetence on drugs. I do not want to go into the wasted years that we have had, but can we just say where the United Kingdom is now, and put aside tabloid pressure? Let us forget about what people say, and the abuse that my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East will get, and say we know what is right, and what works, and we know that the policies that we have pursued for 39 years have given us the worst drug problems and the worst outcomes in Europe.

We had tough policies in ’71. They did not work, so we had even tougher policies—and they did not work, so we went on again to still tougher policies. There were great plaudits for all the politicians putting them through. Each time, our problems went up and up. That has not happened in Portugal. In the Netherlands, there is some kind of control. The glamour has been taken away. The joy of forbidden fruit has been taken out of using cannabis. People can go to a cannabis café and have a cannabis cake with their grandmother. Where is the fun in that? Part of the attraction, here, is the illegality of drugs. Part of the problem, and the reason why people die here, is the illegality of drugs.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East mentioned that people can, if they get control of their heroin and know its quality and strength, become heroin addicts and live into their nineties. Many people have. There are homes in the Netherlands for geriatrics who are heroin addicts. They can be maintained. People here who are unfortunate enough to be addicted must take their heroin from illegal sources, from those who produce products that may well be toxic or contaminated. They take them in unhygienic surroundings in a dark alley. That is why prohibition is killing people.

[Andrew Griffiths]

The hon. Gentleman paints a very rosy picture of people living a long and happy life on heroin. One of my constituents spent 30 years on methadone and has now been drug-free for two years. He has just celebrated his second drug-free birthday. He said he has wasted his life. The difference between his life on methadone and his life drug-free is like being born again. He is one of the strongest advocates of tackling the situation in which we park people on methadone for years on end, rather than, through rehabilitation, tackling the reason why they use drugs in the first place.

[Paul Flynn]

The hon. Gentleman is simplifying the problem. No one is in favour of people going on methadone for prolonged periods, but it does happen, and often it is preferable to the alternative. The point that the hon. Gentleman seems to miss is that a rich heroin addict can live almost without risk. We know of famous people—I shall not mention any names—who were heroin addicts all their lives and died in their beds at an advanced age. At the moment it is poor addicts who suffer, and who are in the position I described—exposed to street dealers and contaminated heroin.

I remember vividly, from the time of the 2002 Home Office report—I was kindly mentioned in the introduction—working with David Cameron, and attending the meetings. I remember his sharp questioning of a man called Fulton Gillespie, whose son had been killed by injecting heroin contaminated with talcum powder.

I had a hope that the generation now in government and opposition—I am sure that most members of the Cabinet and shadow Cabinet used illegal drugs in their university careers—would at least have the courage to see that the present policies are not working, and can never work. I hope that they go through the same realisation that my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East has courageously undergone, and conclude that we have to have another policy. We should be able to agree on the extent of the failure.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned prisons, and one of his hon. Friends told me that he went to a prison where a prisoner explained that he had toothache and wanted an aspirin, but would have to wait until the next day to see a doctor for that aspirin. He also said that he could go out of his cell and obtain heroin, marijuana or cocaine within five minutes.

How many of our prisons are drug free? None. No prison in the country is drug free. If we cannot keep drugs out of prisons with 30-foot walls, what chance do we have of implementing a policy of prohibition to keep drugs out of schools and clubs?

[Andrew Griffiths]

We agree on that point, but the matter is much worse. The number of methadone interventions—prescriptions—to prisoners has more than doubled in just over three years. The problem is not just illegal drugs in prison; methadone is being prescribed more and more to keep prisoners quiet.

[Paul Flynn]

There seems to be a concentration on methadone as a solution. It is not. It is part of the problem. There is no way round it, except the nonsense of putting addicts in prison for their addiction. Nothing could be more counter-productive or a larger waste of money. I believe that that is in the convention that will be introduced next year. There is a universal view that we must move away from using the criminal justice system for treating addiction, and use health outcomes and treatment.

As sensible people, we must recognise the enormity of our continued failure, and get politicians of all parties together—the hon. Gentleman is secretary of the all-party group on drug misuse, and I welcome that—to recognise the courage of my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East and how he has taken on interviews today. That will arouse the realisation, throughout the country and among all parties, that the only way of ensuring that we are not top of the league of drug deaths, drug crime and the other drug problems on this continent of ours is to learn from other people—including lessons from the Netherlands, and particularly the recent lessons from Portugal.

There is a better way. There is certainly no way practised by any country in the world that is worse than what parties on both sides have done for the past 40 years in the United Kingdom.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—