Homelessness: Funding

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd December 2025 Westminster Hall

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for securing this debate.

We have Shelter’s vicious cycle:

“No home? No address. No address? No bank account. No bank account? No job. No job? No home.”

Rural homelessness is a unique challenge. In a way, it is unlike homelessness in urban centres; it is less visible, which makes it harder to tackle. I suppose people always imagine quaint villages and rolling hills, so the association with homelessness does not necessarily fit, which perhaps makes it easier to overlook. There are many people in my constituency who sofa surf, staying temporarily with family and friends, and therefore are not classified as statutorily homeless. There is a hidden homelessness crisis. If hon. Members came to visit the Hope Centre in Minehead with me, they would see the excellent volunteers from the Baptist church support the many people who are sofa surfing in Minehead and west Somerset.

In 2024-25, 30% of people in mid Devon became homeless because friends or family were either no longer able or willing to provide accommodation. That figure is about the same in Somerset. Homelessness in rural areas has increased every year since 2018, with the most recent statistics indicating there are around 28,000 homeless people in rural parts of the country. They are most highly represented in the south-west. At the end of 2023, homelessness in the countryside had jumped by 40%—nearly half. An English Rural report found that rural areas receive 65% less funding for homelessness per capita compared with urban areas.

We need more social housing. I had a look at what the CPRE said about rural homelessness following the Government’s publishing of the housing figures in June. In the south-west, almost 65,000 people are on waiting lists for social housing. Figures from 2023 showed that just 8% of homes in rural areas were affordable, whereas that figure is 17% in urban areas. Without building the homes, people will continue to face destitution and homelessness. The Liberal Democrat manifesto last year included a commitment to build 150,000 social houses. I am proud to say that in Minehead, Somerset council has built social housing for the first time in a generation. The Liberal Democrat Mid Devon council is making good headway. Given the comments from the hon. Member for Exeter (Steve Race), I will make sure that he gets an update from Liberal Democrat-controlled Devon county council.

I always tell people there is no point in talking about affordable housing if someone earns only £20,000 a year. What we need is social housing, not affordable housing, and we need it in Tiverton and Minehead first and foremost.

English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 25th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. The time limit for speeches is now three minutes.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

I will speak in favour of new clause 38, which I tabled. It seeks to introduce measures to prevent developers from using their own surveyors who have a vested interest in downgrading agricultural land in order to secure planning permission—particularly for solar farms—to build all over our countryside, taking farmers’ land and livelihoods.

The new clause was born out of a specific issue that was raised with me in my constituency. In Washford, a farmer called Mr Dibble—no kidding—has a farm in his family’s name. They have been there for generations. Some time ago, developers came to see him with a plan for development on the farm, and he refused. His lease is guaranteed for another generation, but the solar farm developers did not seem to care. He reached out to me because of the unfairness of the situation. I was shocked to find out that the developers had organised a surveyor to visit his property, who had deemed it sub-par agricultural land. Anyone with eyes can see that that is not the case. Farmer Dibble would not have been able to grow the crops that he has on that land had it been of the quality that the developers claimed it was. His land is grade 1 or 2 at the very least, yet surveyors are coming in, paid for by the developers, to say that—surprise, surprise—it is grade 3 at best.

At present, local authorities’ hands are tied. They have no powers to order independent assessments of land quality, nor the ability to pass judgment on the assessments made by others. My new clause seeks to give them that power. It also seeks to enshrine the employment of a land use framework for planning and development decisions. Along with many others in this place, I am sure, I am still waiting to hear the results of the land use framework consultation from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, but I hope that it follows the principles set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton and Wellington (Gideon Amos). If a development is proposed for agricultural land that falls outside the land use framework and there are competing assessments of the agricultural grade of that land, then new clause 38 would give local authorities the power to demand that a new, independent assessment of land quality be undertaken. That would stop the railroading of farmers and help to preserve good agricultural land, rather than seeing it built over.

Our farmers are our future. I call on hon. Members to back new clause 38 and new clause 17, which has been tabled in the name of my party.

Supporting High Streets

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is natural in these debates that we repeatedly hear phrases like “lifeblood” and “beating heart”, because colleagues across the House love our town and village centres; they are the essence of our local communities. For me, that means principal towns like Alton and Petersfield and substantial villages like Liss, Four Marks, Clanfield, Horndean and Rowlands Castle. Why do we care? Of course, it is important to have the provision of goods and services for our residents, but mostly it is because these are the places that bring people together; they stop isolation, form social bonds and give life and form to the idea of community.

Lots of different things are needed for a successful high street. There is the physical environment and its aesthetic appeal, which Members have mentioned. I pay tribute to those who give up their time voluntarily to maintain and improve that landscape, including litter pickers such as those from the Alton Society, the Petersfield Society and the brilliantly named Rubbish Singers.

A good events calendar can really make a difference and can go a long way. I think you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that it is hard to beat an events calendar like that of Alton in Hampshire. It is about having cultural assets, such as Petersfield museum. In fact, this morning the Culture, Media and Sport Committee heard about the role of heritage buildings in creating a sense of place. It is about initiatives that bring people into the town centre, such as Dementia-friendly Alton and “Health on the High Street”. There must be wider community facilities, including libraries and nurseries—in fact, anything that just brings people to that specific place.

Most of all, it is about people and the shops, cafés, pubs and restaurants that they work in. The great British high street still has a lot going for it, but it faces some very difficult headwinds, principally from out-of-town shopping and online shopping and home delivery. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not blame the Labour Government for either of those things. They are forces that our country and the world has been dealing with for quite some time—and we can add to those more recently the indirect effect on banking, as a couple of colleagues have mentioned.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

I am very lucky in my constituency to have a thriving high street in Minehead. It was obvious when I was wandering around doing my Small Business Saturday that the strength of the independent traders is what makes Minehead high street particularly successful and a thriving part of my constituency. Does the hon. Member agree with that point?

[Damian Hinds]

I largely agree. In truth, it is a blend. Having distinctive independent traders is what sets all our towns apart; it makes them unique and it makes us very proud of them. But customers want both those independent traders and some brand-name retailers, and there is nothing wrong with being a brand-name retailer. The secret comes from having a combination of both.

I was just saying that I want to join in with what other colleagues have said about the need for banking. On the need to review the criteria, I think it is the Financial Conduct Authority that sets the criteria. As this development in banking goes further, we need to ensure that towns the size of Petersfield in my constituency have a business banking facility that is open at least five days a week, and I hope that the Government can look at that with the FCA.

Given the headwinds that our high streets face, the most important thing we need is more people to come into those places. Efforts to create more residential accommodation in town centres, which the hon. Member for Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton (Jim McMahon) talked about, are useful, as is maximising the use of brownfield land. Most people coming into town centres are coming in for a purpose, and we need to be hospitable to them. Walking and cycling are great, but we must remember that most people are still coming in by car, especially in an area like mine, and we must make sure that it works for them too.

Social Housing: South Cotswolds

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Tuesday 21st October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Roz Savage (South Cotswolds) (LD)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the issue of social housing in the South Cotswolds, and I thank the Minister for being here this evening.

Across our towns and villages, from Biddestone to Barnsley and Hullavington to Hillesley, the story is the same. The need for genuinely affordable, safe and well-maintained housing has never been greater, yet precisely when the need is most acute, the supply of such homes is being allowed to dwindle away. In Wiltshire today, more than 3,600 households wait on the council’s housing register. Families and individuals are waiting for a secure, affordable home. Many are in the higher-priority bands, recognised as being in significant need.

Local parish surveys tell the same story. Biddestone and Slaughterford parish council has undertaken two surveys in recent years, both confirming a clear and continuing demand for affordable housing. There is also a growing need among older residents for smaller, adapted homes so that they can downsize locally, which will free up family houses for the next generation, yet in many villages that option simply does not exist.

I want to make it clear that I am not advocating arbitrary housing targets. I am talking about ensuring that the right kind of homes are built—homes that local families, key workers and older residents can actually afford to live in and want to live in, and homes that have the infrastructure that they need. While the Government have set new national housing targets that will more than double the number of homes expected in areas such as the Cotswolds, those figures risk doing more harm than good if they ignore our local realities.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that schemes such as the new social housing in Minehead—the first social housing for a generation—coupled with more social housing in Mid Devon specifically for elderly people to downsize from their own social housing are the way forward? Does she also agree that the Liberal Democrats in both institutions should be recognised for doing a jolly good job?

[Dr Savage]

That does indeed sound like an excellent idea.

English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 2nd September 2025 Commons Chamber

[Vikki Slade]

I will come to that later in my speech, when I will share the concerns of electoral officials about whether the legislation can deliver in time for any of the changes scheduled for next year. Although I recognise that there is an anomaly for next year, even electoral officials are worried about the Bill’s timeline and the ability to make any changes for 2026 and for those who have already had elections delayed.

Across the sector, there are serious concerns about the power of the commissioners that will be appointed by mayors—people with significant influence but little scrutiny. There is concern that they will hold more sway than elected leaders of local authorities but without any democratic accountability. In the very centre, the Secretary of State will retain sweeping powers to merge authorities and extend functions without parliamentary oversight or local consent. I am seeking an explanation of how and when those powers would be used, so that we can assure our local leaders that they will not be overridden.

There is widespread concern about the loss of highly skilled, experienced councillors through the removal of district councils. I noted the Secretary of State’s concerns about putting power into the hands of too few people. How will she ensure that there is not a democratic and skills deficit and that people are properly represented across these larger regions?

For the last decade, the Conservative Government have cut funding to councils but forced them to do more. Their economic mismanagement and failure to fix social care has left many councils on the brink of collapse. This Bill was an opportunity for real local government reform, but it is an opportunity missed.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

A particular concern of my constituents in Tiverton and Minehead, where we have one local authority in Devon and one in Somerset, is the real difficulties around special educational needs and disabilities. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill could create difficulties for local authorities that are struggling to deliver good SEND education for so many of our children?

[Vikki Slade]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. Special educational needs are a huge passion of mine—I am sure Members have heard me talk about them many times—and this issue will take so many councils to a very dark place. I trust that the Minister hears that on a regular basis and that we will see in the fair funding review something really serious about special educational needs provision.

Local authorities have unique access to every household and business, which gives them a huge opportunity to improve people’s health and wellbeing. The Bill requires strategic authorities to improve the health of their communities, but I am concerned that it does not provide substantial funding to do that, and without that funding, I cannot see how it can be achieved. While the Bill makes substantial improvements to the workings of audit, it misses the opportunity to shine a light on all the places that taxpayers’ money is spent through the introduction of local public accounts committees. I was reassured to hear the Secretary of State refer to that being in her thinking, but rolling them out alongside strategic authorities would really aid transparency, improve value for money and enable organisations to share resources for the good of the community. I urge the Government to reflect on that as we go towards the Report stage.

The Bill also proposes that strategic authorities take on the functions of police and crime commissioners and fire authorities. However, because of the disparity in boundaries, there is a real risk that community priorities will not be maintained, and the control of such things by appointed rather than elected commissioners further reduces democratic accountability. How will the Government ensure fair funding and effective policing and fire services where strategic authorities cover vastly different communities?

Councils have expressed similar concerns about a mismatch between places within those authorities—for example, the different needs of urban and rural areas, or the inclusion of a single authority among a cluster of places with very different levels of deprivation or demographics. Some communities feel that where decisions are made by simple majority vote, their voice will not be heard. Weighted voting and the meaningful inclusion of town and parish councils can ensure that local insight is retained, particularly around issues such as planning and transport.

Representation must not end there. This Bill was an opportunity to ensure that local services draw on and are informed by the full range of lived experiences in an area.

Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lee Dillon (Newbury) (LD)]

I congratulate the Chair of the Select Committee on securing the debate, and on the robustness of her speech holding the Government to account.

The Department covers many areas and councils themselves cover more than 700 services, but I shall concentrate on housing, hopefully in the spirit of constructive opposition. Like many others who are in the Chamber today, I support the Government’s headline ambition to build 1.5 million homes—it is a goal that I share, as do many in the housing sector—but I remain concerned that the Government are still unwilling, or unable, to answer my question about how many of those homes will be genuinely affordable. Far too many people across the country are priced out of home ownership, with house prices rising at an unsustainable rate.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

My observation is that there is simply no such thing as affordable housing in my constituency. If someone is earning £12 an hour and £20,000 a year, a house that costs £30,000 is not affordable. Does my hon. Friend agree that the only sort of housing that people can afford in my constituency is social housing?

[Mr Dillon]

My hon. Friend will know the needs of her constituency better than I do, but as someone who worked in social housing for 14 years, I will always advocate for the delivery of more social housing units.

In my constituency of Newbury, the average house price in April was £398,000—up by 6.2% on the previous year. Owning a home is fast becoming a distant dream not just in west Berkshire, but across the country. Although I welcome the target for new homes, I urge the Government to make affordability central to their plans.

The homes we build must reflect the needs of real people, not just developers or investors. I was pleased to see the allocation of £39 billion over a 10-year period in the recent spending review—one of the most ambitious long-term investments in affordable housing for decades. I hope that it kick-starts the generational step change that we need to deliver affordable homes, but it must include council homes and social rented homes.

We Liberal Democrats have been clear that we need 150,000 social homes built every year—homes that people can genuinely afford and that are linked to local infrastructure and services. Sadly, with the reduction of neighbourhood planning, that will now be less likely to happen. I challenge the Government to match their ambition by setting their own target for social housing delivery. Without that, our housing mix will be dictated by the private market, and that is simply not a viable solution to the housing crisis we face.

I also welcome the £13.2 billion commitment to the warm homes plan. The decision by the Conservatives to scrap our home installation policies have had a real cost, and an estimated 1.6 million homes have been built with lower energy efficiency and higher bills as a result—a Conservative legacy. With 6.1 million households now in fuel poverty, we must act urgently to fix Britain’s cold and leaky housing stock.

As the hon. Member for Milton Keynes North (Chris Curtis) said, the spending review included a 10-year social rent settlement at CPI plus 1%, which I again welcome. Housing associations have long been calling for that, and I am grateful that the Government have listened. That is a positive move, but we must ensure that rents remain affordable and that social landlords are held to account. We cannot allow social rents to drift higher and tenants to be priced out once again, and let us not forget the 1.5 million people who are still waiting for social housing.

As the Member of Parliament for Newbury and a member of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee, I will continue to hold this Government to account—not just on how many homes they build, but on how many people they help.

Disadvantaged Communities

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Wednesday 4th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Brackenridge]

I agree. Hon. Members will hear more about ICON’s work in my speech, because it paints a picture of our communities.

This is a project of national renewal that is designed to work with communities, to rebuild from the ground up and to restore hope and dignity to our places. It is a strategy about the huge importance of cultural capital and social infrastructure for social connections. What makes those communities special? They are resilient, largely because they have had to be. They have felt the brunt of 14 years of austerity. They have been disproportionately affected because they disproportionately rely on good public services, which were stretched to breaking point under the last Government.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

Does the hon. Member agree that it is important to recognise the interconnected barriers in such discussions? The dearth of post-16 education and poor transport connectivity blunt young people’s ambitions and further entrench the disadvantages of which she speaks in areas such as my constituency.

[Mrs Brackenridge]

I absolutely agree. I signpost hon. Members to yesterday’s meeting of the Education Committee, where we heard from a representative from the National Union of Students about the clear link with the barriers that certain young people face to get to college or school. I beg hon. Members to look at that.

What makes those communities special? As I said, they have borne the brunt of 14 years of austerity. They saw Sure Start snatched away, cuts to neighbourhood policing, record NHS waiting lists, the decimation of youth services, a crisis in special educational needs and too much more. But our communities are full of potential; they are close knit and packed with people who graft and work hard.

Rebalancing Regional Economies

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2025 Westminster Hall

[Andy MacNae (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the potential merits of rebalancing regional economies.

It is a true pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Dowd. This Government have rightly prioritised growth, devolution and the need for growth to be seen in all regions and nations. Last year’s Budget and this year’s spring statement freed up £113 billion of infrastructure investment. Huge amounts of work are being done to develop industrial strategies that will drive forward key sectors. We have new trade deals, and have seen the corporate world commit record levels of investment in renewable energy, artificial intelligence and many more sectors.

Brilliant stuff—but what does it actually mean to the people of Rossendale and Darwen, Blackpool, Winsford, Macclesfield, or Cornwall? Clearly not much yet, given the kicking we got in the local elections. These small towns and coastal communities are the places where productivity is lowest.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

My constituency is both rural and coastal, which presents a unique set of challenges in terms of deprivation and neglect. Urban areas often receive targeted investment, but rural and coastal communities can be overlooked. Does the hon. Member agree that the Government must adopt a tailored approach, taking into account the rural premium in the index of multiple deprivation, to specifically address the distinct needs of such areas and unlock their significant economic potential?

[Andy MacNae]

I agree with the hon. Member; her point is largely the thrust of my speech, so hopefully I will align with her thinking.

Churches and Religious Buildings: Communities

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Westminster Hall

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I commend my friend, the Second Church Estates Commissioner, the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), for opening this co-sponsored debate, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Jeremy. This is a useful and important opportunity for colleagues across the House to draw attention to the considerable impact that churches and church buildings play in their communities.

I will make some points about the listed places of worship grant scheme, and I will reflect on and amplify some of the points that the hon. Lady has made about the social impact of church buildings. I will also spell out some of the opportunities that the Government could consider with respect to capital grants. However, I first reflect on what the hon. Lady said about her own church, Holy Trinity Clapham. Jago Wynne, rector of that church, has been a personal friend of mine for 25 years. Let us not underestimate the leadership role that many rectors and vicars play, outside their core remit of preaching the gospel, in raising funds to maintain and extend the missions of their churches. Next year, Holy Trinity Clapham will celebrate 250 years of existence; it is rooted in the Clapham Sect. Jago said to me this morning, “This is a mission project, so that the building can be a blessing to the community, not a barrier.” The church now finds itself £1 million short because of the changes to the terms of the listed places of worship scheme. As the hon. Lady has set out, there are 260 other churches facing similar challenges. They have undertaken a considerable fundraising effort, the works are under way, and now they face a deficit. Some may be able to meet the gap, but others might not.

I am privileged in Salisbury: I live in the shadow of the cathedral and worship at Saint Paul’s.

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

I would like to reflect on the words of the hon. Gentleman. My three brothers spent many happy years as choristers at Salisbury Cathedral. As the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) said, churches are the backbone of our communities; as she also said, some 969 in England alone are at risk due to crumbling roofs and vanishing heritage funding. Recently and famously, my party was mocked for fixing church roofs, so I can only surmise that the more Liberal Democrat MPs there are, the better. Having said that, instead of leaving congregations and communities up and down the country seemingly praying for a miracle, can the Minister comment on whether the Government will commit to making the listed places of worship scheme permanent, and to removing the cap?

[John Glen]

I am trying to avoid making party political points, but the hon. Lady does tempt me, because at St Paul’s in Salisbury—where I go to church and where my grandmother went 100 years ago—we recently had a win in the local elections over a member of her party. That says something about the commitment that Chris Taylor has to the St Paul’s community.

I have visited many churches in Salisbury—including St Mark’s, and St Mary and St Nicholas, the famous Italianate church in Wilton, where the Rev. Mark Wood does a fantastic job—where we are seeing growth in the congregations, but also constant anxiety about how the fabric of those buildings can be maintained. The buildings are integral to the vibrancy of the communities that they serve. They are a source of great encouragement and a convening point for community activities, which have a big impact across all age groups.

Proportional Representation: General Elections

Rachel Gilmour Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)]

How we vote and how we select who governs this country is, by nature, a topic of huge national significance, and one that is too often pushed to the sidelines. I have been a member of the Liberal party, now the Liberal Democrats, since I was 17. Fighting for a fairer system of electoral representation is key to my political mooring and my party’s fight for a fairer democracy for the British people.

I am the mother of four children. I have one daughter. She is as clever as she is beautiful. Last year, she produced a report on voting systems across the world, including in Russia, South America, Africa, America, the European Union and here. Her analysis showed incontrovertibly that proportional systems are much fairer, including for women, those who are disabled and those from an ethnic minority. This is not just about the bar charts or the figures; it is about real fairness. In the most recent election, we saw a Government elected to power on the lowest vote share for over 20 years, with the lowest proportion of the electorate’s support since 1918. Just 20% of registered voters cast their ballot for the Labour party. Four out of five voters either voted for somebody else or did not vote at all.

One of the so-called merits of the first-past-the-post system is that it is designed to deliver a clean winner, but this is illusory. Reaching back through the annals of British electoral history, we see that 1931 was the last time a governing party secured over 50% of the vote share. The towering majorities secured under our system were delivered not on the basis of a representative vote, but through the quirks and idiocies of a flawed system. When first past the post does not deliver a towering majority, it delivers exactly the sort of instability that it is designed to avoid. Did the 2017 election produce a clear winner, leading to a strong and stable Government? The former Member for Maidenhead could answer that one for us.

For too long, the parties of red and blue have taken the British people for granted. In last summer’s general election, Labour and the Conservatives returned their lowest combined vote share in the age of universal suffrage, yet their combined seats still dwarf those of all other parties in this place. Some 57.8% of voters had to settle for an MP they did not vote for, including my constituents. That hardly seems right or fair. The evidence of a broken system is clear for all to see. What on earth has happened to true majority rule?

Another argument in support of the first-past-the-post system relates to its simplicity. I agree that our democratic process should be simple, but what is simpler than people being able to vote for the party that they believe in, rather than feeling that they have to vote tactically? The system is not fair, and it is not proportional. I and my colleagues in my party will continue to fight hard to raise awareness about its unfairness, not because it is the politically expedient thing to do—as has been pointed out, we did rather well under first past the post at the last general election—but because it is the right thing to do.

If anyone’s argument against a fairer electoral system is that they might disagree with whom the British people vote for, I would ask them to consider why they make such an argument—because it is not out of service to the British people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)]

I am grateful to Members from all parties for their thoughtful and interesting contributions to the debate. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allocating time for this important discussion and the hon. Member for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel) for introducing the debate in the way that he did.

For us as a nation, this is an important discussion to have. We may not recognise that we should be proud of the peaceful and democratic way that we govern ourselves, despite our various, often heated, disagreements, as hon. Members might have seen earlier in the debate. Unlike the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), I am not afraid—

[Rachel Gilmour]

On that point, will the shadow Minister give way?

[Paul Holmes]

I will give way.

[Rachel Gilmour]

I thank the shadow Minister for giving way. It does at least show that he has some sense and knowledge of what democracy means.

[Paul Holmes]

I thank the hon. Member for Tiverton and Minehead (Rachel Gilmour) for that wonderful intervention. Members should know that she and I are very good friends.

Unlike the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, I am not afraid to stand up for the courage of my convictions and for the arguments that I will make. Unlike Members of the Liberal Democrat party, I am prepared to take interventions and have a genuine debate,