ISIL in Syria

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Tim Farron]

I am happy to confirm that.

For me, and probably for many other Members, this has been one of the toughest decisions, if not the toughest decision, I have had to take in my time in this place. The five principles that we have set out have been broadly met, but I will not give unconditional support to the Government as I vote with them tonight. There are huge questions on the financing of Daesh by states such as Turkey, with the trade that is going on there. There are huge questions on the protection of civilians. Yes, a ceasefire, as discussed in Vienna, is the ultimate civilian protection, but we absolutely must continue to press for safe zones to be established in Syria. I continue to be very concerned about the lack of political and state involvement, notwithstanding what the King of Jordan said overnight, by close-by regional states, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. I continue to be concerned about our failure to take our fair share of refugees, as part of the overall EU plan. I welcome what the Prime Minister said earlier, but I want a lot more than just “looking into” taking 3,000 orphan children from refugee camps. I want them here in Britain.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I am very grateful to the Liberal Democrat leader for giving way. Given that he has pressed so hard for the Government to take more refugees, why is he content to bomb that country when the Prime Minister has refused to give that assurance? This is ridiculous.

[Tim Farron]

I will come to that in a moment. The reality is that this is a very tough—an incredibly tough—call.

A final point I wanted to press the Prime Minister on concerns the funding of Daesh from within UK sources. I am very pleased to hear that there will now be a full public and open inquiry. It must cut off that which fuels this evil, evil death cult.

This is the toughest call I have ever had to make, certainly in this House. What pushes me in the direction of voting for action is, above all, United Nations resolution 2249, which calls for us to eradicate the safe haven that Daesh has in Syria. The resolution does not just permit, but urges this country and all members capable of doing so, to take all necessary action to get rid of Daesh. If we had just been asked to bomb Syria, I would be voting no: I would be out there demonstrating in between speeches and signing up to emails from the Stop the War coalition. This is not, however, a case of just bombing; this is standing with the United Nations and the international community to do what is right by people who are the most beleaguered of all. I was so proud and moved to tears when I watched at Wembley the other week English fans singing La Marseillaise—probably very badly indeed, but doing it with gusto—and standing shoulder to shoulder with our closest friends and allies. How could we then not act today, when asked to put our money where our mouth is?

What has really pushed me into the position where I feel, on balance, that we have to back military action against Daesh is my personal experiences in the refugee camps this summer. I cannot pretend not to have been utterly and personally moved and affected by what I saw. I could give anecdote after anecdote that would break Members’ hearts, but let me give just one in particular. A seven-year-old lad was lifted from a dinghy on the beach at Lesbos. My Arabic interpreter said to me, “That lad has just said to his dad, ‘Daddy are ISIL here? Daddy are ISIL here?’” I cannot stand in this House and castigate the Prime Minister for not taking enough refugees and for Britain not standing as tall as it should in the world, opening its arms to the desperate as we have done so proudly for many, many decades and throughout our history, if we do not also do everything in our power to eradicate that which is the source of the terror from which people are feeling.

We are absolutely under the spectre of a shocking, illegal and counterproductive war in Iraq. It is a lesson from history that we must learn from. The danger today is that too many people will be learning the wrong lessons from history if we choose not to stand with those refugees and not to stand as part of the international community of nations. This is a very tough call, but on balance it is right to take military action to degrade and to defeat this evil death cult.

Syria

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have said what I have said about ground troops, and I do not propose to change that. The motion needs to set out clearly what I am seeking the House’s permission to do. I would want that to be relatively clear and constrained; I would not want people to believe that some sort of mission creep was taking place. I am very happy to listen to people’s views on what the motion should have in it.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister has described Raqqa as the head of the snake but, as the story goes, when you cut the head off a snake, seven new heads grow. How can he ensure that the snake is not in fact a Hydra that will emerge stronger in other parts of the region, such as Libya or Tunisia?

[The Prime Minister]

There is a difference between snakes, with which I am quite familiar, and the Hydra of myth and legend. Maybe we need to have a deeper conversation about that. Look, it is not just my view that Raqqa is the head of the snake; it is. That is where the plots have come from, which is why acting only in Iraq and not in Syria is restricting our effectiveness.

European Council

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point that will be debated and discussed a lot in the forthcoming referendum. Obviously, in many cases, people who go to other European states will not get EU citizenship, or citizenship of those states, for many years, so they will not be able to travel freely around the European Union. That is important and we should not mislead people about it. One of the things we want to tighten up in the current rules is the ability of foreign nationals living in other European countries to marry EU nationals and then have access to the UK. We would like that particular judgment to be overturned.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

What exactly is this benefits shopping that the Prime Minister speaks of? It is probably the greatest canard in British politics right now, because I do not know what it is and it seems that his European counterparts do not know either. Rather than being driven by the suspicion of Johnny Foreigner that plagues his Back Benchers and, indeed, his Home Secretary, will the Prime Minister stand up for the freedom of movement, which has enriched this country so greatly over the years?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to help the hon. Gentleman. Of course, there is an issue—a relatively small issue—of people coming to different European countries and claiming benefits to which they are not entitled. That should be, and is being, stopped: it is now not possible to come here and immediately claim unemployment benefit. The bigger problem, which my renegotiation is examining, is that someone who comes from another European country to Britain is able, in the first year, to access in-work benefits of perhaps as much as €10,000 or €12,000. This is about being able to control our own welfare system to reduce the pressures of migration. European leaders and the British people understand that, even if it has not got through to the SNP yet.

Tunisia, and European Council

Stewart Malcolm McDonald Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister, to the Leader of the Opposition, and to the 70 Back Benchers who contributed in the 70 Back-Bench minutes.

[Stewart McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Points of order come after statements. We are saving the hon. Gentleman up, if I can put it that way.