Childcare Payments Bill

Thérèse Coffey Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, which brings us back to the issue of child poverty and the importance of child care in supporting families and particularly children in getting out of that situation. She raises an important point, and I shall be coming on to ask some questions about the Bill’s implementation in that regard. Contrary to the impression given by the Minister, there is still a lack of clarity about who will and will not benefit from the changes. I shall reflect only momentarily, Madam Deputy Speaker, on the wider point that my hon. Friend raises. Our very flexible labour market can make it difficult for many parents to manage their child care arrangements. We know that many women, for example, are subject to zero-hours contracts, which can make it very difficult to plan for child care and the costs and availability of child care, when they might not know what hours they will be working from one week to the next. I hope that the Minister will take all those issues into account, particularly in respect of supporting families, which could be dependent on the interaction between the implementation of this policy and universal credit.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

The hon. Lady mentioned universal credit. Earlier, she was saying how difficult it was to plan for child care. Government Members were surprised that the Leader of the Opposition did not condemn last week’s strikes, because those are exactly the kind of issues that are a nightmare for parents.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I think that the hon. Lady is straying somewhat from the subject of the debate, but I also think that a number of the workers who were involved in Thursday’s strikes were among the very lowest paid, who we know need this child care support and who are struggling to make ends meet. That was one of the motivating factors in the action that they took last week. I therefore do not think that the hon. Lady’s point was entirely irrelevant, but let me now return to the issue that is under discussion, which is child poverty.

There is concern about the fact that much of the progress that has been made has been either halted or, even worse, reversed by the Government’s policies over the last four to five years. The Government are absolutely on track to miss spectacularly their statutory obligations in terms of eradicating child poverty. As their own child poverty adviser Alan Milburn said recently,

“The Government’s approach falls far short of what is needed to reduce, let alone end, child poverty in our country.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I had assumed that my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) would speak ahead of me, but it is a great pleasure to be called today. You are right to looked puzzled, Madam Deputy Speaker. Why is there nobody on the Opposition Benches? We all know that the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) spoke for 52 minutes to mask the fact that no one else on the Opposition Benches would be speaking. That contrasts with 19 and 20 November 2013, when we debated child care in the Chamber. I am slightly disappointed, because I had a good exchange with the hon. Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) and I am sure that we could have had a similar debate about statistics and measures. Nevertheless, it is great news that we are finally getting to the Childcare Payments Bill and I am pleased to support it today.

One of the big things about the Bill is that it puts matters into the hands of parents. Instead of having to rely on employers setting up schemes, which I believe only 5% of employers actually set up, we will have a system that is effectively direct. Families with two working parents who earn at least £50 a week will benefit in one way or another from Government help towards child care, recognising that we will not double-subsidise those who receive tax credits or universal credit.

On that note, it is my understanding that we will provide an extra £200 million to support those families claiming universal credit, so instead of having 70% of their child care costs paid, as they do today, they will receive 85%. I am sure that will be very welcome to all working families.

Of course, the very richest in our society—those who earn more than £150,000—will not benefit, but I am sure that they will recognise that we must target a welfare system at the broadest number of people.

[Hywel Williams]

Is the hon. Lady confident that when parents in deprived and rural areas are enabled as proposed, the market will deliver the places?

[Dr Coffey]

I do not pretend to know much about Welsh schools, although my cousin goes to school in Wales and I have many relatives there. I am not necessarily aware of the provision that exists, but I know that this Government are keen to work with schools in England to increase the number of schools choosing to make provision for young children. I do not know what the Welsh Assembly Government are considering, but the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), has consistently tried to introduce reforms that will make child care provision an attractive career. We are right to press ahead with some of the childminder agencies we are introducing, not through this Bill but separately, to remove some of the administrative burdens that might be deterring people from entering that career. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will encourage such agencies to set up in his area of Arfon, bringing new employment opportunities for both men and women and making provision for working parents.

It is great news that under this Government more women are working than ever before, yet we would like to see even more women—and even more parents—going into work. This scheme is part of our long-term economic plan. We recognise that the cost of our child care is the second highest in the OECD as a percentage of family income; only Switzerland’s is higher. I think that it is fair to say that under Labour the number of childminders decreased significantly and costs went up. Before the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North springs to her feet—if she is not following the latest reshuffle news on Twitter—let me say that I recognise that that trend has continued, but it is not going on at the same level. [Interruption.] I thank the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) for referring to my haircut. It was nothing to do with the events that seem to be unfolding on Twitter. I merely got a phone call from my own mother complaining that my hair was too long and, as we know, in these situations mothers know best. I am not a mother, so I have to stick with what my mother tells me.

Let me give a few of the reasons why these things matter. A couple of years ago, the Conservative Women’s Forum undertook an inquiry, in which I think you might have participated, Madam Deputy Speaker, into the executive pipeline of talent. It focused not only on the number of women on boards, but on how we encourage women to get up the executive ladder and, more importantly, on what women can do for themselves, what Government can do and what companies can do. The issue of child care was a running theme throughout the inquiry, particularly for those in junior management. Once people are at a certain level, they probably receive a salary that means they do not have to think about the issue; they can pay for a nanny and even though it might be painful, the costs are not quite so prohibitive. We consistently received evidence that the voucher system was inadequate. It did not cover enough of the cost, it was very limited or, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) mentioned earlier, it did not help people such as the self-employed. I am pleased that the Bill extends the provision to almost anyone in work and it is right that we should do that.

It is also fair to say that no one magic bullet emerged as a result of the inquiry to solve some of the challenges in the pipeline of talent or in how we tackle child care, but nevertheless the discussions before the Budget announcements on how to help with tax relief were exactly the issues being brought up by senior executives. I was glad that the subsequent announcement was made in Budget 2013.

The proposals in Budget 2013 were limited to £6,000 of child care costs, which would have meant a maximum benefit of £1,200. I was pleased that after the consultation, to which significant contributions were made, we were able to change the age limit to 12 and, as my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) has pointed out, to change the age limit for children with disabilities. We also increased the limit to £10,000, with a maximum of £2,000 support. That was the right thing to do, because it recognised the costs of child care. Nevertheless, it is important that we have retained the choice for parents who are in employer-supported child care schemes to stay in that system while recognising that we will close it to new entrants, so to speak. I support that because, understandably, companies have gone to some expense to set up these schemes and they are popular. We should not withdraw one thing simply for the sake of simplicity for the Government.

The hon. Lady from Northern Ireland—I have forgotten her constituency—

[Mark Durkan]

South Down.

[Dr Coffey]

Thank you. The hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) referred to the situation in which one parent was not working and asked why they would not get support with child care costs. As my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) has accurately pointed out, the consultation raised those points and we have extended the provision when there is a working person and somebody on carer’s allowance or employment and support allowance. When people are enjoying parental leave after having children, they should not be penalised if they have children in child care. We do not want any unintended consequences.

I am a strong supporter of the traditional family. I am sure that I am not the only person whose mother did not work initially after having me, although she did start to go back to work as a supply teacher. It is fair to say that although the Government have scarce resources, they are offering both parents the choice to get back into the workplace, as opposed to one person having to choose, for perfectly good reasons, not to return to the workplace. I therefore support the gist of what the Government are saying about restricting support to cases in which both parents are working or the other cases that have been alluded to.

I am surprised that there are no Members in the Chamber from the Scottish constituencies, because, of course, this is a United Kingdom measure, although I am delighted that we have had contributions and interventions from Members from Wales and Northern Ireland. Much has been made of the fact that National Savings & Investments will initially be providing the child care account. You may have read in the weekend press, Madam Deputy Speaker, that if the people of Scotland choose to go ahead with separation, NS&I will not be able to provide accounts to people living in Scotland, as they will effectively become foreign nationals. They might wish to consider that as another element of the question. I am sure that if somebody from the Scottish National party were here, they would leap up and say, “We will have an even better scheme and it will cost less than yours.” Nevertheless, I am sure that the good people of Scotland recognise that that is unlikely to be the case. The Minister might want to consider the issue in her regulations for this provision, but let us not prejudge the outcome of the referendum. I strongly believe that the people of Scotland will recognise that staying together is better for us all.

[Hywel Williams]

Shall I indulge in some karaoke and repeat the words that the hon. Lady used herself? I am sure that Scotland will provide a much better scheme when it is independent.

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Gentleman would say that, and he has been very loyal to his nationalist friends. I recognise that.

On the timing, I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister agrees that if we could bring in the scheme tomorrow, we would do so. However, we do not want to repeat—[Interruption.] Does the hon. Member for Manchester Central want to intervene? I think she said that we have been in power for four years, and I recognise that we are bringing this into play rather late in our parliamentary term, but she will know some of the challenges of government from her previous experience. Nevertheless, I would rather we got this right than end up with the fiasco we had over tax credits, which were brought in in quite a rush, with all the accompanying problems. The hon. Member for Manchester Central might be slightly bemused by that, but overpayment of tax credits and trying to reconcile figures and help people out with that is one of the biggest issues in my constituency casework. She will, I think, recognise some of the challenges of bringing in a new system.

The Bill rightly provides that the connections between the different agencies will be updated quarterly. We are not going to get into penalties and going back and forth, but provision is made for recovery. It is important that parents recognise that they should anticipate the potential impact if their conditions change. To be frank, I think the biggest change will occur when people move from one salary bracket to another, or decide to stop claiming universal credit and simply to claim this instead. At least the hurdle or cliff edge when people have to change is fairly black and white.

[Mark Durkan]

Would the hon. Lady like to see a strong information and advice offer built into the scheme, so that people who are having to decide how to navigate between universal credit and the scheme will get advice and without-prejudice, better-off calculations?

[Dr Coffey]

My expectation is that that would happen naturally. I do not want to overplay it, but I think it would be a natural consequence when people say, “I’m coming off universal credit to get this.” It will be a straightforward calculation, which should be readily understandable.

[Hywel Williams]

I wish I could share the hon. Lady’s confidence. I remember when the tax credit was brought in warning the Government at the time that it was complicated. It was to be administered by HMRC, which was not good at giving people money instead of taking money off them. Despite the confidence displayed at the time, HMRC included in its letters such sentences as, “Even though we told you your assessment was correct, it was not reasonable for you to believe this.” That is a direct quote from a tax credit letter. I am afraid I do not share her confidence that HMRC or any agency of Government is completely competent to administer this scheme.

[Dr Coffey]

I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying, based on the experience of tax credits. That is why I think the Bill deals with it rather well: the period of entitlement is three months. As it is split up quite well into quarters, it should be quite straightforward for parents to make that assessment of what is better for them to get support. Of course, I am sure we all share the aspiration of reaching a stage where everybody is earning over a certain threshold and does not need to make those calculations.

I will not repeat everything my hon. Friends have said about the excellent work being done through nurseries for three and four-year-olds. I will simply reiterate my view that the Bill brings the balance back into the hands of parents and recognises that child care is normally needed all year round. Something that will need to be tackled with child care provided through primary schools by extending their playgroup is how to ensure that continues through the school holidays, but instead of trying to devise a perfect scheme that meets the demands of every single scenario, which is rather difficult when dealing with millions of children and parents, the Bill simplifies and gives people, through the child care account, the ability to build up balances and use the money as and when they need it. What is important is that parents will not pay fees for the accounts. I heard what the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) said about online access, but there will be assisted approaches available for those who cannot access the internet. Internet access is the general default in our efforts to get people on to digital services.

I have not been able to speak for quite as long as the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell), but I am delighted to say that there are other Conservative Members here, and I did not spend 27 minutes talking about stuff that is not connected to the Bill. It gives me great pleasure to support the Bill. Today is an historic day in Parliament, as we embark upon a piece of legislation that will affect many working families. I hope the Bill has the unanimous support of the House.