Water Bill

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

It may please you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the rest of the House to know that I do not intend to take 10 minutes for my remarks, let alone an extended period of time. Other colleagues will, I hope, be able to get in and make valid points on this important Bill.

I begin by continuing a theme established by the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams)—extending competition. He was talking, of course, about extending competition in Wales. Although the extension of competition in the water industry allowed for in the Bill is welcome, it is a missed opportunity because it could go further. It is welcome that businesses, charities and public sector organisations will be able to switch suppliers in pursuit of the best deal, but it is regrettable that that does not extend to household residential supplies and consumers.

I note what the Secretary of State said about the need to increase metering before such a transition can be put in place. It strikes me that offering the ability to switch to those households that already have meters would be a driver for greater take-up of metering. As we know from our experience in the south-west and in Cornwall, where we have particularly high levels of metering, that can help households to bear down on water use and improve affordability. The incentive of being able to shop around for the best deal if the household has a meter may produce a double whammy. Consumers would shop around for better water tariffs and metering would increase, enabling households better to control their water usage and its affordability. It is a thought that I leave with my hon. Friend the Minister.

However, it is clear that the introduction of competition into the market is long overdue. The fact that the previous Conservative Government essentially created a number of monopolies across the country has been a key failing of that privatisation. I have always felt that it was a privatisation too far, and precisely because it did not allow choice in the way that other privatisations of state industries did. There was no competition in the market and therefore no real driver for improved conditions. We see that in my constituency, much to our pain, as we still suffer from the highest water bills in the country. I am therefore pleased that the coalition Government have taken a step towards tackling that through the £50-a-year rebate.

I must say to Opposition Front Benchers, in relation to the earlier comments from the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) about this being part of a cost of living crisis, that in Labour’s 13 years in office there were three reviews and one Act of Parliament, but not a penny came off water bills in Cornwall as a result.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has misled the House inadvertently, because he will know that Labour’s first price review led to a real-terms cut in water bills.

[Stephen Gilbert]

And the hon. Gentleman will know that the coalition Government acted to take £50 off bills in the south-west, which has made a real difference to affordability for my constituents and others who have suffered for a very long time.

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[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to respond to this debate on behalf of the Opposition. We have had a good and lively discussion this evening, with a number of thoughtful and knowledgeable contributions. I hope to address in turn each issue raised by Members.

I am disappointed that in about five hours of debate we heard little from Government Members about how they propose to deal with the cost of living crisis. Some of them scoffed when Labour Members talked about the pressures facing households up and down the country. The cold, hard reality is that families are struggling today. My hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), who serves with such distinction on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, made an excellent and thoughtful speech about the pressures on household budgets.

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman is right to focus on cost of living issues. We also accept that they are important. Does he not accept that, if we look at the increase in average water and sewerage costs, we saw the greatest spike from about 2005 to the end of the period in which the Labour Government were in office?

[Thomas Docherty]

I will come on to that point in just one moment. As my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields mentioned, the latest figures show that more than 80,000 households have sought advice from citizens advice bureaux about water bill debts in the past year, which is almost exactly the same as the figure for how many sought help because they could not pay their energy bills.

The hon. Gentleman asks what the previous Government did. As we have heard today, we took decisive action to help families. We were the only Government to have forced a real-terms cut in a price review. He joined the House in 2005, which is interesting because it was the previous price review in which there was a real-term cut. The previous Government introduced WaterSure—the first social tariff scheme.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will the hon. Gentleman enlighten us on his proposals? We have heard an awful lot about the problems but not much about his or his party’s solution.

[Thomas Docherty]

If the hon. Lady shows a bit of patience, she might hear more detail from us than we heard today from the Secretary of State.

The previous Labour Government passed legislation that allowed the water companies to introduce their own schemes. Those companies had assured the country that they were keen to do so, yet almost four years after that legislation was passed, how many of them have kept their promises? How many water companies have developed a scheme within their region? How many of those fat-cat boards have put even a fraction of their obscene profits into the pockets of the hardest hit households? Just three out of 20 of the most successful and profitable companies in the country have lifted a finger to help their customers. It is no wonder that the most charitable description of the system, as offered by Citizens Advice, is “ad hoc”.

What did we hear from the Secretary of State today? What was his response to corporate failure and what was his proposal to help customers? He has written a second letter to his friends, the water bosses, not to demand real action but to make a helpful suggestion. He does not believe in Government intervention. No matter how much the market fails and the companies drag their feet and how many customers cannot afford the inflation-busting prices, this is a Government who do not believe that they should act. We on the Labour Benches do not share that belief. We believe that when fat-cat bosses will not act, the Government must.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) said, we will introduce a national affordability scheme. I welcome the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), who has been a constant champion of hard-pressed customers in the south-west region. Along with other Members, she raised the subject of flooding and flood insurance, which is an important issue. We share the concerns of many Members from across the House about both flood defences and how households can secure affordable insurance. The latest figures from the Environment Agency put the cost of damage to property in the past year at £277 million, almost £200 million of which was household damage.

We heard an excellent speech from the Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley), who highlighted the problem eloquently. The Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), highlighted the important and often overlooked issue of surface water run-off. The Opposition welcome the principle behind the proposed new scheme, Flood Re, but like the Select Committee we have serious and legitimate concerns about the fact that the Bill contains only one clause on that matter.

My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) spoke from the heart about the problem of flooding. I am sure that the House would acknowledge that she has been a champion for her city, and I hope the Minister will provide real answers to the important issues that she raised.

I understand that Ministers are hastily drafting new clauses even now, but they must be adequately scrutinised. The issue has been raised by Members on both sides of the House, so will the Minister give a firm undertaking that the new clauses will be tabled in time to be reviewed adequately in Committee? Will he assure the House that such crucial amendments will not be rushed out at the last minute without due scrutiny?

We also heard from Members on both sides of the House about the tax paid by the water companies. As my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State has already said, it is simply unacceptable for water companies to make £1.9 billion in pre-tax profits and pay out £1.8 billion to shareholders. That is why we need to give the regulator broader powers to step in to protect customers and to ensure that fat-cat companies play by the same rules as other businesses. We want to ensure that excess profits, rather than heading to shareholders’ pockets, are used responsibly to reduce bills and improve infrastructure such as the Thames tunnel.

The hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) mentioned abstraction. Not for the first time, he raised his concerns about the damage to chalk streams and asked whether I would set out our party’s position on the environmental impact issue. I am always keen to oblige him, so let me set out clearly our view of the crucial need for environmental mitigation. Even when the Government have tried to introduce reform, they have failed to follow through. As the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee has warned repeatedly, a half-baked proposal to introduce upstream competition without proper abstract reform is worse than the status quo. As the WWF warned today,

“The licence system is completely broken, unsustainable and out of date”.

Why have the Government ended up in that mess? As in so many other cases where the Government have decided that something is difficult, tricky or requires them to act, they have just pushed this off. It should be no surprise that the Secretary of State ideologically opposes any Government action, but I wonder why the Minister responsible for water, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson), has simply gone along with his boss’s laissez-faire attitude to our natural environment. Simply to promise, as Ministers apparently have, that the Department will do something in the next Parliament shows a lack of credibility.

Let me be clear: if Ministers have found thinking of solutions too hard, they should postpone all upstream reform until we have Ministers and officials who will stand up to the vested interests who are damaging our rivers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Rogerson)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and I look forward to debating many of these issues with him in Committee over the coming weeks. I am struggling to follow his argument. He says that there is an issue with abstraction reform and that we should press ahead and do something now, but his solution otherwise is to delay the whole process and not to consider any kind of reform of the industry. That seems to be his argument.

[Thomas Docherty]

Oh dear me; the Minister has obviously forgotten his own position. He will still be a member of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee for a little longer, so perhaps he can set out which side of the argument he agrees with—that expressed by the Select Committee of which he is a member or that in his new role as a Minister.

The hon. Members for Arfon (Hywel Williams) and for Newbury (Richard Benyon) mentioned retail competition, and the Opposition support non-domestic competition. It has been a success in Scotland, and like the Select Committee of which the Minister is still a member, we believe that, implemented properly, it will work in England. Like the Committee, however, we think there are technical improvements that we intend to explore further in Committee.

[Hywel Williams]

Has the hon. Gentleman any estimate of the cost of introducing competition in Scotland, where it is already under way, or in England? How much does he reckon that it will cost?

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[Thomas Docherty]

The hon. Gentleman indicated that he is looking forward to serving on the Bill Committee, so we can discuss the matter further there. I refer him to the Select Committee’s report. The estimate of the first decade of competition in Scotland is that it will save the public sector £100 million. I think that the Department has produced figures for the savings in England, but the key point is that competition must be introduced properly.

Clearly, a range of important issues will require greater scrutiny and debate in Committee. The Bill is contentious not because of what it proposes—after all, the coalition has taken three and a half years to introduce measures that Labour developed in government—but because of what it does not deal with. It contains nothing on helping households struggling to pay their bills, nothing to make water companies pay their fair share of taxes, nothing to give the regulator real teeth to take on the fat cats, and nothing on reforming water abstraction.

I can assure the House that we will table amendments in Committee that will help households, give the regulators new powers, tackle tax avoidance and protect our natural environment. In conclusion, we will work constructively with the Government, and in that spirit, we will vote the Bill on Second Reading.

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[Dan Rogerson]

Very little, I think is the answer. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

Dealing with abstraction gives me an opportunity to welcome the contribution by my predecessor, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), not only because of all the work that he put in and how he has informed our debate, but because by seemingly being very popular across the House he will make it much harder for anyone to oppose what is in the Bill, as it was his work that got us to this stage. I am sure that that will help to develop the consensus, because everyone agrees with the conclusions he drew and the position we are in. The Government are clear that any moves on abstraction and upstream reform must work together, so what we are establishing in the Bill will come into effect alongside the abstraction reform that we are moving towards. We have to get this right because it is crucial that we have the water resources to deliver the growth and environmental outcomes that we want to see.

Many Members covered flood insurance. I am all too aware of the devastation caused by flooding and its financial and emotional impact. I recall the destruction in Boscastle in my constituency. I became the Member of Parliament for North Cornwall a year after that tragedy, where fortunately no lives were lost. It also affected other nearby communities such as Crackington and Canworthy Water. The problem was that flood insurance companies were not up to the task. Fortunately, the Association of British Insurers was able to step in to offer advice and to help resolve the issues. As we have heard, other Members have similar recollections from their constituencies.

Flood risk management remains a top priority for this Government. We have committed record levels of capital spend and more than quadrupled contributions from other sources. As a result, we will have improved defences for 165,000 households by March 2015 and an extra 300,000 by 2021. I recently visited South Zeal in Devon, where residents shared with me their harrowing experiences of flooding. They also showed me the actions the community is taking to become more resilient to flooding, to keep down their insurance premiums in the long term. This Government are committed to providing access to affordable insurance for households at high risk.

We will table new clauses in Committee. Draft clauses have been available for some time and much of our work in Committee will be based on them. Were we to delay the Bill after this Second Reading debate, we would not be able to deliver our programme in a timely fashion. That is our objective. Yes, it is regrettable that those clauses are not in the Bill as drafted, but these are very complicated negotiations to ensure that an industry-led solution works not only for the industry, but fundamentally for communities and residents who need support.

[Thomas Docherty]

The Minister has given an undertaking that those new clauses will be available for scrutiny by the Bill Committee next week. Will he say, once and for all, whether those 20-odd clauses will be available in time for the Committee adequately to review them next week?

[Dan Rogerson]

It is my intention that they will be available for the Committee to look at as soon as possible, but we have to get them right and make sure that they deliver what the Government and my predecessor agreed with the industry, so that we deliver effectively.

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[Dan Rogerson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. House building has not been at its fastest recently, so the vast majority of properties in this country were built before the cut-off date, which ensures that there is affordable coverage for those who need it.

The Chair of the Select Committee made a point about sharing benefits data with water companies, as did the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View. We have to be careful because those data are very sensitive, and sharing them with the industry would currently be illegal. We can look at that, and the Select Committee has made recommendations, but we must get it right.

[Thomas Docherty]

The Minister is obviously talking about bits of the Bill that do not yet exist and which the House has not seen. A few moments ago, he said that capital expenditure had gone up. It might help him if I point out that there has been a drop of £96 million this year compared with the situation that the Government inherited in 2010. We want to place on the record the accurate figures, rather than those given to him by his civil servants.

[Dan Rogerson]

Over the spending review period as a whole, the investment will be bigger, and we will see the numbers climbing over the coming spending review period as well, by up to £400 million a year by 2021.

Several hon. Members raised the issue of bad debt, and rightly pointed out that some companies are better than others. We of course want all companies to aspire to do better. To return to the points made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, we now have a far more vocal and effective regulator than we have had for some time. On issues of bad debt, affordability and company transparency, which matters to many right hon. and hon. Members, the expectation on companies to deliver is now much greater. I want to make it clear that many companies are doing a good job, investing money and delivering for customers, but where there are problems, the regulator will tackle them. My right hon. Friend set out absolutely clearly in his letter to the companies his expectations for the industry. The Government are supporting the regulator to carry out the work that is necessary.