Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tobias Ellwood and Stewart Malcolm McDonald

Tuesday 24th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I very much join in the spirit of the hon. Lady’s remarks, but we have to work within the mechanics of such a referral. We took the initiative to bring the situation to the awareness of the International Criminal Court in 2014. Our efforts were vetoed by two permanent members of the Security Council. That will happen again unless we are able to provide the necessary evidence, which is exactly what we are doing. We will hold those people to account, but there is an order and a process that we must honour. I entirely agree with the spirit of what the hon. Lady wants to do.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

4. What recent representations he has made to his counterparts in the middle east on press freedom in that region.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

We encourage all countries to respect freedom of the media. On concerns about freedom of expression in the middle east, we clearly set out these concerns in our annual human rights report, which was most recently published in April.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

It is now four years since the Saudi writer Raif Badawi was arrested. Earlier this month his wife was sentenced to 1,000 lashes for promoting her husband’s cause around the world. Given that it was British engineers who have extracted Saudi oil and built their roads, and given our massive co-operation on matters of defence and foreign policy, are not people around the world and in this country right to have expected a bit more progress than the Government have obtained so far?

Arms Sales to Saudi Arabia

Debate between Tobias Ellwood and Stewart Malcolm McDonald

Thursday 28th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I do ask, with huge respect, that this narrative that somehow British soldiers are involved in the targeting cell is stopped. The Prime Minister made that absolutely clear yesterday—indeed, I think in response to the Scottish nationalists—saying that we are not part of the coalition. We are not in the targeting cell, and therefore we are not privy to that information. What we are calling for is absolutely the robust process that must be followed if an incident is reported.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

The United Kingdom has practically built the modern Saudi state. It was UK workers who extracted the oil and built the roads and UK doctors and nurses who provided modern medicine—plenty evidence of the British carrot. However, I think the Minister is in a stronger position than he perhaps appreciates, so when will we see a bit of the British stick, beyond the usual platitudes that we hear from the Dispatch Box?

[Mr Ellwood]

Again, I have spoken to the hon. Gentleman offline. He is aware of what we try to do overtly, but also quietly, to advance change in Saudi Arabia. It is difficult: it is a very new state. We should also reflect on the fact that the royal family—the leadership there—is on the liberal wing of a very conservative country. There is a pace of change that works, and if the hon. Gentleman wants to see it move any faster, he should bear in mind that a possible consequence could be to see Daesh spreading—it has made it clear that it wants to take over custodianship of the two holy cities, and that is exactly what we could get. Therefore, I absolutely stand with him on wanting to effect change, but it needs to happen at a pace that is workable.

Saudi Arabia

Debate between Tobias Ellwood and Stewart Malcolm McDonald

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend is right to recognise that Daesh benefits when there are disagreements between the regional players, which is why it is important that we de-escalate tensions.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

The Islamic scholar and cleric Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr was described by our US allies as someone who promoted democracy, justice and peace. I do not doubt the Minister’s commitment to those values, but we really do need more than a statement of disappointment—a rather perverse manifestation of the British understatement. Given that promoting democracy in Saudi Arabia now appears to be a capital offence, can he outline exactly what the Saudi Government would need to do to draw an official censure from the Dispatch Box?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has chosen to link two different conversations. Two and two does not equal five. The fact that those who promote democracy are now facing the death penalty is incorrect. We will continue to build our relationships with Saudi Arabia to encourage the reforms that we would like to see, as I articulated in my statement.

Human Rights (Saudi Arabia)

Debate between Tobias Ellwood and Stewart Malcolm McDonald

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Ellwood]

Again, I need to make some progress, and then I will answer those questions. It is important, if we have these debates, that we can see progress being made. We must be able to see movement forward. I will give some illustrations of that and of instances in which Britain is trying to assist in that progress.

Turning to some of the specific questions that have been asked, the hon. Member for Glasgow South asked about the lowering of the flag on the death of King Abdullah. I should make it clear that it is a long-standing convention to half-mast the Union flag on Government buildings following the death of any foreign monarch. That is the convention; it was not specifically to do with that particular case.

Many hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Glasgow South, spoke at length about the Raif Badawi case. I give the hon. Gentleman the same answer I gave in the main Chamber: the case is in the supreme court and is under review. We therefore cannot interfere with that process, in the same way that the Saudi authorities would not interfere with our process.

[Stewart McDonald]

rose—

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Gentleman raised two specific issues, so I shall just make a couple of points, which might answer the questions that he might be about to ask me yet again.

Raif Badawi has been found guilty of various charges. We strongly condemn the sentence passed, but we must honour the judicial process. Once that process has been completed, we can then take stock and comment on the process itself, but we must be careful not to interfere with it.

[Stewart McDonald]

rose—

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Gentleman is keen to interject, so I will give way.

[Stewart McDonald]

I am grateful to the Minister. May I press upon him again, as I tried to do earlier, that it is not a normal justice system? He is asking me, and people across the world, to have confidence in the system that put Mr Badawi where he is now. Is the Minister seriously going to stand up with a straight face and ask us to do that? It is nothing short of a joke. It is the same justice system that bestowed upon Mr Badawi a prison sentence, a fine and 1,000 lashes. Minister, we can do better than this.

[Mr Ellwood]

The case has returned to the supreme court, which reflects the fact that the leadership has taken stock of international opinion and what people have said. The punishment has stopped and is under review. Until that process moves forward, it would be incorrect to comment on another country’s judicial process. That would be interfering, in the same way that the Saudi authorities would be interfering in our processes if they commented on them.

The hon. Gentleman asked whether the ambassador should request to visit Raif Badawi. We will not advocate that; again, it would inappropriate. Raif Badawi is not a British citizen as such. Once the sentence is upheld, we can obviously look at making contact, but it is not appropriate for our ambassador. That would, again, be seen as interfering with the process. A non-governmental organisation would be in a better position to make that judgment, rather than another country’s ambassador going in to see a citizen to whom the ambassador has no direct connection.

[Stewart McDonald]

Given what the Minister has said, will he ask the Saudi Government if it would be possible for Amnesty International to visit Mr Badawi in prison?

[Mr Ellwood]

Absolutely; we can certainly put that forward. I would be delighted to make that request.

Religious tolerance and the situation of Christian and other minority religions have been raised in the debate. The British Government strongly support the right to freedom of religion or belief, which is restricted in Saudi Arabia. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is aware, our views on the subject are well known. We must recognise that the restrictions on freedom of religion or belief in Saudi Arabia reflect widely held conservative social values in Saudi society. The key to increasing freedom is to focus on tolerance. We must work with Saudi Arabia to identify areas in which different faiths can work together, foster trust and build slowly in more challenging areas.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tobias Ellwood and Stewart Malcolm McDonald

Tuesday 14th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stewart McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

11. What progress is being made on diplomatic efforts to free the Saudi blogger Raif Badawi.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

As the House is aware, Raif Badawi is a Saudi human rights activist and blogger who, in May 2014, was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes. The British Government have raised the case a number of times at senior levels. I now understand that the case is under consideration in the Saudi supreme court.

[Stewart McDonald]

We often hear that answer from the Government. One of two things is happening. Either the Government are trying and failing, or they are not really bothering at all. May I ask the Minister two questions? First, will he instruct the United Kingdom ambassador in Saudi Arabia to request a prison visit to check on Raif Badawi’s health? Secondly, will he say without equivocation that Mr Badawi should be set free?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman heard my first response, so let me repeat it. I understand that the case is under consideration in the Saudi supreme court. This country, along with many others across the world, made representations at senior levels to ensure that it was understood where we stand as a supporter of freedom of expression around the world. It is now for the supreme court of make a judgment, and we should not pre-empt what the court will say.