Off-gas Grid Households

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Pamela Nash

Tuesday 16th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Crausby.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing the debate and on comprehensively discussing the issues arising from the all-party group’s report. I also note the efforts made by the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) and my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), as co-chairs of that group, in pulling that work together. It is a good example of the positive work that all-party groups—sometimes denigrated for other reasons—can do. The hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal is present but unable to take part in the debate, given her elevated status. Her compensation is perhaps that, due to the vagaries involved with recent ministerial changes, she has greater direct interaction with the relevant Minister than was the case before Easter. I am sure she will use that interaction to continue to reiterate to the Minister the concerns expressed this morning by hon. Members from all parties—five parties, from all parts of the UK—demonstrating that the issue arises in many constituencies and in every part of the country. Knowing the Minister’s constituency a little from my youth, he will have constituents in rural parts who are also off-grid.

I welcome the new and latest Minister to his role and wish him well in his new, or partly new, responsibilities. We look forward to debating and discussing with him a range of issues under the remit of the Department of Energy and Climate Change. I was going to say that I welcome doing so in the months and years ahead, but about six months ago I said that to his predecessor, so it might be presumptuous to look too far ahead. For the period in which he and I are in these posts, I look forward to dealing with some of the big energy issues.

Off-grid gas and off-grid power are significant issues that are discussed from time to time. I was a member of the Energy Bill Committee. The hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) mentioned the amendment he tabled to that Bill. There was frustration—not just his, but among members of the Committee from all parties—about the paucity of the response on why the proposals in the amendment could not now be implemented, or even further explored. Given the hon. Gentleman’s previous attempts at introducing that amendment, I hope the Minister will bear that matter in mind before we consider the Bill on Report, as it presents him with an opportunity to make progress on that aspect. I am sure that the hon. Member for Angus is right about the prospects for his private Member’s Bill and I caution him as to the prospects for ministerial militancy, given that the Prime Minister’s remarks on energy tariffs have given the new Minister—and gave his predecessor—a problem to deal with in that regard.

Hon. Members have pointed out that some 4 million UK households are not connected to the mains gas grid. According to the OFT, that is a conservative estimate and the figure may be much higher. I will not repeat the list of communities in the constituency of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) that are in this situation, but I will say that in Northern Ireland 80% of households are off the grid, largely because natural gas was introduced there only relatively recently. Although there is a different regulatory and market set up in Northern Ireland, we should pay attention to the efforts to get households on to the gas grid, because, as the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and other hon. Members have made clear previously, this is not just a rural issue; it is an issue in communities that, for some historical reason, have been left off the grid.

The issue is not just one of cost; it also involves the time it takes to get some of those customers access to the grid. I have experienced that in my constituency, which is urban and suburban, but has a number of former coal communities that have not been on the grid for exactly those reasons, although they are close to places that are. The cost and the time it would take are prohibitive. That matter deserves further consideration.

As well as being of concern in Northern Ireland, the issue is significant in Scotland, where 21% of households are off-grid, and in Wales, where the figure is 19%. Hon. Members will be aware that the average dual fuel on-grid bill has risen by more than £300 in about the past three years. For those who are off-grid, that problem is even worse. Consumers using heating oil, LPG or solid fuels pay considerably more to heat their homes than those using mains gas.

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

We have rightly concentrated on the costs of LPG and heating oil for heating homes, but many of my off-grid constituents, like my hon. Friend’s, depend on electricity to heat their homes. I would like to highlight the benefits of “Switch Together” campaigns to communities that are wholly dependent on electricity, because, although we want to get them on-grid as soon as possible, this helps them in the meantime.

[Tom Greatrex]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We would want to get more consumers on to the grid, but where they are not on it we have to consider what other things can be done. Perhaps the Minister heard about the power of collective switching this morning on the “Today” programme, in respect of a group of councils. A number of groups of councils, and the Labour party and others, have engaged in collective switching programmes, which can have some impact in helping people to reduce their bills. My hon. Friend is right that the long-term issue is about trying to get more communities—some in her constituency are similar to some in mine, in Lanarkshire—on to the grid.

Hon. Members mentioned the House of Commons Library figure on the typical cost for households using oil for heating and hot water in a typical three-bedroom house, which at the beginning of the year was just under £1,700, compared to about £1,250 for gas. The difference of £450 a year would be difficult to deal with at any time and is particularly difficult given the economic situation that the country and many of our constituents find themselves in.

The volatility of the price of heating oil in particular causes off-grid households huge problems. Hon. Members mentioned the winter of 2010-11, when the price of heating oil increased by 55%. High prices coupled with extreme volatility have resulted in many off-grid households being pushed into fuel poverty. According to Consumer Focus, in Scotland, 59% of those using solid fuel and 56% of those using LPG and bottled gas live in fuel poverty, compared with 24% of those using mains gas. The 24% figure is far too high while 59% is very high and should be a matter of concern.

Measures that the Government could take have been highlighted both in the all-party group’s report and by hon. Members. We have touched on the winter fuel allowance, including the timing of the payments. The hon. Member for Angus commented on that. I hope that, by the time we consider the Energy Bill on Report, the Minister will have looked at the new clause, because it is worthy of more consideration and of action now, given the response that his ministerial colleague gave in Committee. I encourage the Minister to look at that to see whether there is work to be done.

I urge the Minister further to consider regulation of the off-grid sector. As the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth remarked, there is not a specific regulator for off-grid operations and Ofgem’s remit essentially extends only to the on-grid market. The role of the OFT and the Competition Commission is not comprehensive enough to deal with the off-grid market. The Government should give serious consideration to bringing those issues under the umbrella of Ofgem or any successor regulator.

The Minister is aware that his predecessor committed to a cross-party round table on this issue—I think that it will be held next month—and I invite him to confirm that that will still go ahead and that he will be involved. Will he also outline what progress we can expect on that initiative? In addition, will he, on the basis of the discussions he has had, tell us whether suppliers have made any progress on the recommendations outlined in the Consumer Focus report on off-grid gas?

We have heard from the all-party group and Consumer Focus, and we have heard about the OFT report, although it is deficient in some ways, as was highlighted by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid). We have also heard concerns expressed by Members from all parts of the United Kingdom and almost all the parties represented in the House. The Minister, who is in his early days in the job and his new responsibilities, will therefore be particularly aware of the fact that this is a considerable issue. We should not pretend that it was created overnight—I do not think anyone is pretending that—but that does not mean there should not be some impetus behind seeking to address it.

If we can have a better regulated system and consider a range of issues, including winter fuel payments and how consumers with gas connections close to them can be connected to the grid, we can provide some comfort to our constituents and ensure that they get a better deal on their energy costs—I say “our constituents” because the Minister and I will both have constituents who are affected by the issue, as will all Members who have spoken this morning. I hope the Minister will take that thought away with him as he starts his new role.

Atos Healthcare

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Pamela Nash

Tuesday 4th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex]

I will take one more intervention. I apologise to everyone else, but I want to leave time for other hon. Members to make contributions. I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash).

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

On the point about recording assessments, a constituent of mine was told recently that they could record the assessment, but only if they paid for a private, independent company to come in and do it. Obviously, someone who is living on benefits cannot afford that. I wrote to the Minister at the time about the issue. I wonder whether he can deal with the recording of assessments in his closing remarks.

[Tom Greatrex]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. She has made a point to which I hope the Minister will be able to respond.

I will attempt to move on. Back in February, I wrote to the National Audit Office to outline concerns about the contract between Atos Healthcare and the DWP. The correspondence centred on two issues: first, a lack of efficiency in the use of public funds, to which I have referred, and, secondly, a lack of accountability inherent in the disbursement of those public funds. As the recent House of Commons Library note and many of the figures that I have received as answers to parliamentary questions over the past 18 months or so have confirmed, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) reflected, 41% of those found fit for work appeal the decision and 38% have their appeal upheld. For those who seek the advice and support of professional advocacy groups such as Citizens Advice, the appeal success rate is closer to 70%. Just last week, Kent’s largest citizens advice bureau indicated an appeal success rate of 95%.

The impact of what is happening is twofold. First, too many sick and disabled people are being found fit for work when they are not. They become entangled in a lengthy appeal process that can occupy up to nine months of their time. In many cases, even when the appeal is successful, the individual is placed in the work-related activity group and then they have to begin the whole process anew.

Work Capability Assessments

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Pamela Nash

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex]

My hon. Friend makes an important and pertinent point that I hope the Minister will address. It is a real concern if some of the facilities used by people undertaking a work capability assessment are in such a state.

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this crucial debate. My constituents share the same assessment centre that my hon. Friend’s constituents use in Hamilton, and their experiences suggest that the building is not suitable for carrying out a work capability assessment. It has no disabled access and the car park is 80 yards from the front door. People are only supposed to walk 40 yards, and they feel as if they are being tricked before the assessment takes place.

Another problem is that information is unofficially gathered during the assessments. One of my constituents is deaf, but he was told that he could not possibly be deaf because he heard his name being called in the waiting room. Clearly, while he was waiting he was looking at the door in order to lip-read. Have my hon. Friend’s constituents shared experiences such as those at the Atos centre in Hamilton?

[Tom Greatrex]

My hon. Friend makes a couple of important points. In some ways, a deaf constituent being told that he is not deaf because he heard his name being called is symptomatic of the attitude held by some of the people who carry out the assessments. I am sure that all hon. Members have heard about such experiences from a number of constituents, and it does the principle of helping people into work a gross disservice.

Although it is important to determine whether Atos staff are polite, courteous and accommodating to individuals undergoing the work capability assessment, the most important issue for my constituents is whether Atos gets its assessment right. I suspect that, if the quality survey were completed after the results of the assessment were known, rather than before, the feedback would be substantially different. Will the Minister undertake to consider that issue further, with a view to obtaining a more realistic overview of the claimant’s experience than that currently recorded in the quality survey?

I will conclude by highlighting the case of a constituent that I think best encapsulates all that is wrong with the current system. The Minister is aware of this case, and he was kind enough to meet me last year to discuss it. Nevertheless, I want to put it on the record because, as I said in response to an intervention, I believe that this example is not atypical of many people’s experiences.

My constituent, who wishes to retain anonymity, suffers from Parkinson’s disease. I am no expert on that condition, and I possess only a rudimentary level of knowledge about the illness. I do know, however, that it is an incurable progressive condition, as I am sure Members are all aware. Like many sufferers of Parkinson’s disease, my constituent has good days and bad days. His condition may deteriorate rapidly, or it may get worse over a long period of time—we do not know. We do know, however, that he will not get better.

Despite his condition, my constituent has undergone two work capability assessments, and on both occasions he was found to be fit for work. On both occasions he appealed the decision and was successful in that appeal. Late last year, however, he was called for yet another assessment. Where is the sense in that? If my constituent has an incurable progressive condition and was found to be unfit for work after his first appeal, why was he called in for a second assessment? If he was found to be unfit for work after the second appeal, why was he called for a third assessment?

I understand the need for the continuous assessment of people with conditions that may improve and mean that the individual in question can return to work, and I accept the principle of regular assessment. Being in receipt of employment and support allowance should not automatically mean that someone is on benefits for life. Nevertheless, common sense must be applied. If an individual is never going to get better, why should we reassess them? It is a waste of my constituent’s time and energy—it takes a considerable amount of energy to get to the assessment and the appeals—and it is a waste of taxpayers’ funds. As we know, the cost to the tribunal service of dealing with appeals is projected to be £60 million this year.

Think of the amount of money that has been spent on that one case. There was the original ESA50 limited capability for work questionnaire, the first assessment and the decision maker’s process after the initial WCA, followed by the first appeal and the necessary post-appeal work that must be carried out by Jobcentre Plus staff. That process was repeated a second—now third—time, and will no doubt be repeated again and again until the Government decide to stop the revolving door of continuous assessment and appeal processes that many people have to undergo. Some people are not going to get better or be any fitter for work after the third assessment than they were after the first or second.

As I have made clear, I believe the work capability assessment to be right in principle but wrong in practice. Although its flaws were clear and highlighted by the pilot process and the Work and Pensions Committee report, the Government went ahead with the nationwide roll-out. I have put a number of questions to the Minister, and I am sure we will hear from many other hon. Members. He should address those questions and not seek to avoid them by laying the blame elsewhere. My constituents, and many people in the country, do not object to an assessment to determine someone’s fitness to work. They do, however, object to a system that seems more concerned with hounding those who cannot work, rather than helping those who want to work.