Student Visas

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Wednesday 24th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

I have affection for the hon. Lady, but she is probably the greatest nimby in the House of Commons today. She always opposes new homes, new development and new infrastructure in and around Oxford, so it is quite wrong for her to say that we should have an open door immigration policy, welcoming more and more people into her community and others, without meeting the demands that come with that in terms of housing and infrastructure.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I am uncomfortable with net migration at current levels, as I believe are most of my constituents. I understand what the Government are doing about one-year taught masters; they seem to be about 95% of this issue. That absolutely makes sense. However, I have some concerns that some universities might try to game the system and re-label one-year taught masters as one-year research masters. I understand why PhDs are treated differently, but will the Minister assure me that that will not happen and we will clamp down on that? Will he also comment on the two-year period I believe that students get after they graduate, where they can stay here even if they do not necessarily have a job?

[Robert Jenrick]

We believe the changes we are setting out today will make a marked impact on net migration. We will, obviously, monitor them very closely for some of the unintended consequences my hon. Friend refers to. The consultation we will do with universities and the broader sector will help us to refine the policy, should that be necessary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

We believe strongly that the UK is better served by a single, national immigration service, and there is no material difference between unemployment or economic inactivity rates in Scotland versus the rest of the United Kingdom. The first port of call for vacancies should always be the domestic workforce. That is why my right hon. Friend the Work and Pensions Secretary has brought forward a wide package of measures across the whole country, to help more people into the workforce. It is not right that we always reach for the lever of immigration to solve those challenges.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, when thinking about the level of net migration, we should consider not just GDP and economic impact but the social and cultural impact of such rapid change, including the pressure on public services and housing?

[Robert Jenrick]

It is right that we consider economic growth and the needs of our economy, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right that these decisions also require careful consideration of the impact of large amounts of legal migration on housing, access to public services and, as he said, community cohesion and integration. That is absolutely the approach of the Government and the Home Secretary, and I am considering the challenge.

Public Order Act 2023

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Tuesday 16th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate, Mr Deputy Speaker.

It is very difficult to strike a balance between respecting peaceful protest, which of course is a cornerstone of our democracy, and occasionally placing a limit on it when the action of the protesters goes too far, causes immense disruption to the law-abiding majority who are just going about their business, and, on certain occasions, may cause a risk to people’s lives: we have seen many occasions when ambulances have been blocked.

On Saturday 18 March, Just Stop Oil held a protest in Ipswich. It was one of those go-slow marches; it started the go-slow marches last December. It is a new tactic from Just Stop Oil, the aim being basically to bring traffic to a standstill pretty much; traffic is almost stationary. I suspect that, curiously, that has a negative impact on the environment—we all know that air pollution is worse when vehicles move at that pace. The irony of that is a slightly different issue, but that is a tactic it has employed, including in Ipswich on 18 March.

I will not overstate the disruption that was caused. There was not a massive amount of disruption. A number of different people locally made it clear before the go-slow march that it would not be appreciated, and I think that by and large the police should be commended for taking a reasonably robust line—it was perhaps not quite as robust as I would have liked, but it was reasonably robust. Ultimately, it still should not have happened. We still should not have a situation where Crown Street, one of the business streets in Ipswich, on a Saturday, a match day, is basically closed off.

Under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, the police had the ability to go further than they did. The Public Order Act gives them a much firmer steer than the provisions before the Act. Ultimately, however, we still had a degree of disruption caused that should not have been caused. We also had various activists going around making various demands. I am sorry, but a protest is about expressing your views strongly. It is not about making demands and saying, “We are going to do this and we are going to cause untold disruption to the vast majority of people until we get what we want.”

We can add to that another way in which my constituents have been negatively impacted. Many of the most disruptive protests have been to do with oil refineries in Essex and the eastern region. That has of course pulled policing resources from Suffolk. The police have had to go out there and cover some of the Just Stop Oil protests on the M25 as well. At a time when we have a problem with antisocial behaviour and crime in Ipswich town centre, police officers who could be on the beat in the town centre, making my constituents safer and making them feel safer, are being drawn elsewhere because of some of these reckless, disruptive protests.

Coronation day was, of course, a great national spectacle of profound importance to our country, a once-in-a-lifetime thing for most of us, and the world’s eyes were on us. Again, I think the police should be commended for the role that they played. They had to make incredibly high-pressure decisions: they had to make judgment calls in moments when they did not have much time to think about it. We had a fantastic event that passed with great fanfare. Yes, the police made decisions to arrest a number of people, the vast majority of whom probably deserved to be arrested. A small number, it turns out, did not, and the police have apologised for that. But ultimately we had a very successful day, and I think that the vast majority of my constituents backed the way the police handled it. They did it properly and got the balance right between allowing peaceful protest and preventing action that could have caused significant danger. We heard examples of rape alarms being set off, which could have disturbed horses, with all the security concerns associated with that. I myself stood on Whitehall and saw opposite two different groups of protesters holding up “Not My King” signs. I profoundly disagreed with their message, but it is their right to express that and they did express it. The idea that there were not significant numbers of people protesting against the monarchy that weekend is ridiculous. There were: I saw them and many others saw them as well.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I thank my very good friend for allowing me to intervene. I think that this matter is all about fairness. It is fair that people are allowed to protest, but it is equally fair that people’s lives should not be seriously disrupted by those protests. Human rights, on both sides, are what this Act is about.

[Tom Hunt]

I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is about a balancing act. I am not concerned about the Act: it does a good job in getting the balance right. It still allows peaceful protest, but it draws a sharp line. Actually, it was explicitly asked for by the police. The Labour party says that it respects and supports the police: well, the police asked for the Act. They said they wanted more clarity and they have got it through the Act, and that is to be welcomed.

I find this slightly curious. It is interesting watching the dynamic at play between the Scottish National party and the Opposition. An interesting dynamic seems to be emerging here; a bit of tension between the two parties. It is intriguing that this was selected by the SNP as the subject of the motion today. It is also intriguing that virtually no Labour MPs are present. It is interesting that the Labour party explains this away as “Oh, this is all the SNP playing games and we’re bigger than this.” That is really not the case. The reason no Labour MPs are here is that they find it profoundly awkward. There is a huge tension between two different groups that they look to appeal to. The first is voters in Scotland who may be torn between the SNP and Labour, who might be very much on the side of protesters. On the other hand, Labour MPs might deep down know that the vast majority of the public—

[Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Tom Hunt]

I shall not be giving way—[Interruption.] Have I touched a nerve? It seems so. I apologise for that. It does seem as though there is a bit of a balancing act going on in the Labour party, and deep down they know—

[Karin Smyth]

rose—

[Tom Hunt]

I will not be giving way—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is entirely within his right not to give way, but I did suggest a self-denying ordinance on the length of speeches, so I trust he will be bringing his remarks to a conclusion.

[Tom Hunt]

I will be concluding my speech. I have further points that I would like to make. I will take an intervention at a time of my own choosing.

Ultimately, there is a tension between the Labour party looking to appeal to voters north of the border, who may well sympathise with extremely reckless protests, and those south of the border. I suspect that Labour Members know deep down that the majority of the public—

[Karin Smyth]

To be very clear, we are very interested in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, not just those north of the border.

[Tom Hunt]

I am not really sure what the point was there. I have said that there is a tension in the Labour party: we have no such tension on this side of the House. And we do not have a problem with sitting on fences. I sat through the Public Bill Committee for the Act. I saw the Labour party vote against every single aspect of it and every aspect of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Tom Hunt]

I will not be giving way anymore.

I also saw locally that the Just Stop Oil activists, once they had finished their protests, went and joined another protest that was attended by the Labour parliamentary candidate and half the Labour council, which was in favour of illegal immigrants being in the local hotel. It is clear what side of the fence the Labour party falls on.

I will bring my remarks to a close, even though we have had much longer speeches from Members on the other side of the House. However, I think I have got pretty close—

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

Bless!

[Tom Hunt]

It is clear that I have touched a nerve here. I find the interplay between the SNP and the Labour party quite remarkable. The reality is that the Labour party has made it clear time and again that they are not on the side of the law-abiding majority looking to get to work and to go about their business—

[Thangam Debbonaire]

Oh!

[Tom Hunt]

You are on the side of reckless protesters who, time and again, want to grind our settlements to a halt. It is absolutely clear. I will draw my remarks to a close, but will watch with interest the dynamic and interplay between the Labour party and the SNP. We will continue to see the Labour party evolve over the coming weeks.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I should have said earlier that I intend to start to call the Front Benchers at twenty to 7. That should give Members an indication of how long they have.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Daly]

That is absolutely correct. In terms of how statute is drafted, I do not know what the Opposition want. If, for each criminal offence on the statute book, they want an absolute definition to cover every single circumstance that the police ever face, we will have the longest Acts ever to appear in this place.

The Conservatives have confidence in our police and our prosecuting authorities to use the discretion that this Parliament gives them to make correct decisions. If they do not make the correct decisions, those matters are tested in court and, as has been said, if there is an unlawful arrest, there is a legal process to deal with that. The fact that we are arguing about that here is utterly bizarre to me.

[Tom Hunt]

Does my hon. Friend find it curious that the Labour contribution to this debate seems to be for shadow Ministers to heckle speeches from Conservatives and not to offer any speeches of their own? Can he think why that may be the case?

[James Daly]

I enjoy being heckled by those on the Front Bench, so I will take that.

I think we have got to the heart of the SNP argument. The hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) said she believed people should be able to protest in any way they want. Now if we take that argument to its end, it means that if someone glues themselves to the middle of the M62 or the M6 in my area, causing untold disruption and having a huge impact on people’s lives, there is no problem in respect of that.

There always has to be a restriction on the right to protest, compared with its impact on others. Why should Republic turn up to a coronation, where hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens are celebrating, and find it strange the police are there and may well have concerns about behaviours that are going on, on the basis of intelligence that they have received? That is the job of the police. That is what happens in those circumstances.

Coronation: Policing of Protests

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

That is absolute nonsense. This legislation is preventing disruption to the lives of our fellow citizens. I wholly repudiate the suggestion that it was rushed through; there was extensive ping-pong, which I do not recall the hon. Gentleman turning up to, although he is so concerned about scrutiny. As for his comment about the process for a Bill gaining Royal Assent, I will not dignify that with a response.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I cannot think of a greater waste of time than an inquiry into this matter. The police did a fantastic job over the weekend. They took actions under pressure, having to make decisions quickly to ensure that a great national event went ahead without any kind of negative event—I am glad that that happened. Does the Minister share my concerns that some Just Stop Oil protesters think they might have found a loophole in the Public Order Act and can get away with slow marching? Will he assure me that that is not the case and that we will not continue to see Just Stop Oil protests cause havoc in our towns?

[Chris Philp]

Just Stop Oil has adapted its tactics since it blocked the M25 in November, causing 10-mile tailbacks, after which a number of arrests were made, with some of the people involved then being remanded in custody. It has changed to these slow walking tactics, but the police are applying cumulative disruption tests to those, using section 12 of the Public Order Act 1986 and making notices under that Act. Following recent disruptions in the past 10 to 14 days, the roads have typically been cleared within 10 minutes, which I am sure Londoners, my constituents and others, will welcome strongly.

Police Uplift Programme

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

I concur entirely with my hon. Friend’s remarks about police officer numbers. It is striking that the Labour party has consistently voted against measures to toughen up sentencing. The vote that most shocked me was the vote by Labour members of the Public Bill Committee on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill against the specific clause that would have kept rapists and child sex offenders in prison for more of their sentence. I was frankly horrified by that.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I welcome the 201 extra police officers we will have had in Suffolk since 2019. However, Josh, who runs Essential Vintage in Ipswich, which he set up over a year ago, has closed his doors. In the past two or three months, he has had 600 or 700 quid’s worth of items stolen from the shop, and he has closed his doors because he has had enough. Does the Minister agree that Suffolk police have a responsibility to look at the footage that Josh has shared with them—it is clear footage; I have looked at it—and to investigate it properly and punish those who are found guilty? Thieving is debilitating for a town centre and debilitating for local businesses. I welcome what the Minister says, but does he agree with me about those key points?

[Chris Philp]

Yes, I do. Suffolk has about 150 more officers than in March 2010 under the last Labour Government, and it is important that those officers are used to investigate crimes such as shoplifting. I completely agree with my hon. Friend: where a crime is reported and there is a reasonable line of inquiry or actionable evidence to pursue, I expect the police to follow it up and investigate it in all cases, in exactly the way he sets out.

Illegal Migration Bill

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 26th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend for that powerful intervention. She is absolutely right. We are talking about basic standards of decency and humanity. Houses of multiple occupancy need to be properly regulated. They need a basic floor of certification and registration and of health and safety, particularly when we are talking about families. The Government should consider being more transparent and straightforward on that point.

Fortunately, we on the Opposition Benches care about secure borders, and we will clear up the mess by delivering a firm, fair and well-managed system that will stop the dangerous channel crossings, because we know that good government is not about chasing headlines; it is about common sense, hard graft and quiet diplomacy. Those are the qualities that underpin our new clauses and amendments to the Bill.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I intervened on the shadow Minister in Committee, and I found out that apparently the Labour party supports a cap for safe and legal routes, which was news to me at the time. Has he had any time to think about what that cap level would be? Bearing in mind how many people would like to try to get to our country, what would the approach be to those who failed in their application, but had still travelled here illegally and got here? Would any potential future Labour Government be open to deporting those individuals?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The cap has to be determined in consultation with local authorities and Parliament—that is absolutely right. In terms of removals, what we need is a processing system that actually works, so that we can get to a decision. People from safe countries who should be removed need to be swiftly removed from our country, and those who are genuine asylum seekers should be granted leave to remain, so that they can get on with their lives and we can start to clear up the abject mess that this Government have made of our asylum system.

The first part of our five-point plan is to repurpose and redirect the funds currently being wasted on the money-for-nothing Rwanda plan into a new, elite, cross-border, 100-strong police force that will relentlessly pursue the ruthless criminal smuggling gangs upstream. The latest £500 million payment that the British Government have made to the French Government will be having some effect on reducing the crossings, but the reality is that we will not succeed if we focus all our efforts on the hundreds of kilometres of French coastline, where resources are bound to be spread thin. We also need sophisticated operations with the British authorities working with EU member states, Europol, Interpol and Frontex to tackle the gangs upstream. New clause 16 instructs the Government to lay before Parliament a framework for a 12-month pilot co-operation agreement with those Governments and agencies to do just that and secure the prosecution and conviction of persons involved in facilitating illegal entry to the United Kingdom from neighbouring countries.

New clause 16 also incorporates the second part of our plan: securing a returns agreement with the European Union, which is essential. Since the Conservatives botched the Brexit negotiations and Britain left the Dublin convention, which had provided agreements on returns, the number of channel crossings has gone up by an astonishing 2,400%. For every one person crossing the channel in a small boat in 2019, 24 are crossing now.

There are three vital points to make on getting a returns deals. First, international challenges require international solutions. Secondly, we need an agreement with our nearest neighbours that must include returns. Thirdly, we will only strike a returns deal with the European Union if we bring something to the negotiation, and that should include a proper plan for capped safe and legal routes for bona fide asylum seekers located in mainland Europe. We suggest that Britain prioritises unaccompanied children with family in the UK, and new clause 14 reflects that.

--- Later in debate ---

I was rather disappointed by the fact that the Foreign Secretary and the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), among others, failed to join us in the Division Lobby in Committee when we voted for the equivalent clause. I am aware that they have pushed back against ham-fisted Ministers trying to steamroll them on this matter, and I also note that they have sided with their local Conservative councils against their own Government, but they are certainly not the only Members on the Government Benches who have urged the Home Office to do better on this point. And, of course, all accommodation must be value for money, as our new clause 11 indicates: we cannot keep having private companies making these huge mark-ups at the expense of the taxpayer.

[Tom Hunt]

If this quiet diplomacy was not as successful as the shadow Minister hopes and a lot of these return agreements did not materialise, and all these people who arrived here illegally were green-lighted if a Labour Government were ever in charge, would there ever at any point be any policy whatsoever to deport to a safe third country?

[Stephen Kinnock]

As I have just pointed out, we are proposing, for example, a fast track for people from safe countries. We absolutely are of the view that people whose asylum claims are not successful or legitimate should be rapidly and safely sent back to their country of origin. I hope I have understood the hon. Gentleman’s point; I am not quite sure what it was.

Members on both sides of the House have raised concerns about the way in which this Bill will undermine our ability to crack down on modern slavery, and we do have to ask why it is that the Prime Minister has taken the attitude he has towards trafficked women and young girls being sold as sex slaves and is so accommodating to terrorists and other criminals on the other hand. We just need to look at his tweet of 7 March, threatening victims of modern slavery with deportation; it was disgraceful, and now his Government’s amendments 114 to 116 have made it even harder for victims to come forward. It will be held up, I am afraid, by the pimps and traffickers to threaten their victims. Two former Independent Anti-Slavery Commissioners, Sara Thornton and Kevin Hyland, recently warned that this Bill will devastate modern slavery protections and is a gift to criminals. All of us in this House know that this Bill is a traffickers’ charter.

Then we should look at the Prime Minister’s shocking record on deporting foreign criminals. Astonishingly, 19 terror suspects are currently living in taxpayer-funded British hotels because the Government have failed to remove them. Labour’s new clause 15 places a duty on the Secretary of State to remove suspected terrorists who have entered the country illegally or to consider the imposition of terrorism prevention and investigation measures upon them.

Deportations of criminals have fallen off a cliff since the Conservatives came to power in 2010. They plummeted by 66% to 5,000 a year before the pandemic and to just 2,100 in 2021. This is an insult to victims, and it again proves what we all know: Labour is tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime, but under the Conservatives criminals have never had it so good.

The Minister for Immigration was appointed to his position as the moderate voice who would curb the more fanatical tendencies of his boss, but that simply has not happened. Instead, it appears that he has either been kidnapped by the hard right of his party, or he has willingly hitched his wagon to it because he thinks that is the way the wind is blowing. However, the Minister is not alone, because his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister also appears to have caved in to the Home Secretary and the Trumpian faction she leads. He has caved in by adding Government new clauses 22 and 26 to the Bill, thereby completely torpedoing his own negotiations with the European Court of Human Rights. It really is quite extraordinary that Conservative Prime Ministers never seem to learn from the fate of their predecessors: the more they appease the extremists, the more they demand. The Prime Minister is weak, and he is being played. This weakness did for his predecessors, and ultimately it will also do for him.

Arguably the most shocking part of this whole sorry tale is this Conservative Government’s contempt for taxpayer cash. Aside from losing billions to fraudsters during the pandemic, dishing out overpriced contracts to their mates for unusable personal protective equipment and crashing the economy to the tune of £30 billion, the Government’s asylum policy stands out as a prime example of Ministers scattering taxpayer money to the four winds and receiving absolutely nothing in return—chasing headlines while buying failure.

There are so many vital questions to be answered. Why, for instance, have the Government failed to publish an impact assessment? For example, do Ministers have any idea of the increase in detention capacity that will be required because of this Bill? The Home Secretary was completely unable to answer this simple question during her car crash of an interview on the radio this morning. How much will these additional detention places cost? How much will the Government pay Rwanda per asylum seeker, and how much will each flight cost? We still do not know the answer to that question one year after the £140 million was given. Our constituents deserve to know, as these decisions impact directly on their communities and on the state of our public finances. It is outrageous that the Government are not providing an iota of information about the impact of a Bill with such huge financial and community impact implications.

So we are bound to ask: what are Ministers afraid of? If they truly believe that this Bill will succeed in achieving its objectives, surely they would happily have published the impact assessment well before Second Reading, and they would have been delighted to stand at the Dispatch Box to defend it. However, there is of course another possibility, which is that Ministers have not even attempted to assess the impact of this bigger backlog Bill because they are utterly terrified of what they would reveal if they did. They are terrified of seeing the cost of their own incompetence. They are horrified by the thought of being transparent because transparency reveals the truth, and the truth is that this Bill will just make everything worse. It will boost the profits of the people smugglers. It will add tens of thousands to the backlog. It will add hundreds of millions to the hotel bills. It will tarnish Britain’s reputation as a country that upholds the international rules-based order. It will further inflame community frustration and tension, and it will add to the desperate misery of those who are seeking sanctuary from persecution and violence.

Many Conservative Members agree with every word of what I have just said, and I urge them to support our new clauses and to join us in the No Lobby when we vote against this deeply damaging and counterproductive Bill this evening.

Illegal Migration Update

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

It is a pity that the hon. Gentleman always campaigns against the building of new homes. That might have been the easiest way to fix the housing crisis. We are going to work carefully and productively with local authorities to address this issue. That has always been my approach: when I was Local Government Secretary I engaged constantly—religiously—with local authority leaders, and we continue to do so. We are going to provide significantly enhanced resources to local authorities so that we better meet the true cost of handling this difficult challenge.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

Clearly, basic and cheap accommodation for those who have illegally entered our country is far better than four-star hotels at the heart of communities. The Minister will know how strongly I feel about the use of the Novotel in Ipswich, which the vast majority of my constituents are against. It is interesting that the Labour party has said today that it opposes the use of hotel accommodation, because only recently a protest in favour of the use of that hotel was attended by the Labour parliamentary candidate and half the local Labour party. Can the Minister give some timescales with regard to when we can move those who are currently in hotels into more appropriate accommodation? The sooner we get them out of the Novotel, the better, and the more support the Minister will get from my constituents.

Illegal Migration Bill

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 28th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), who spoke so powerfully about the issues at the heart of the Bill. I pay tribute to her outstanding work in the area of modern slavery and trafficking.

Here we are again, back for a second day of debate. Across the Committee, I think we all agree that we need to stop the dangerous small boat crossings and destroy the criminal industry at the heart of them, yet each of us knows, though perhaps not all of us admit it, that the Bill is a con and a sham that will only make a bad situation worse. The Government have no returns agreements with the EU to replace the one we were part of before Brexit, nor do they have a working deal with Rwanda. The Home Secretary failed last weekend in her mission to persuade Rwandan officials to state specifically that Rwanda can take thousands rather than hundreds of asylum seekers sent from the UK every year, although at least she got a photo op outside some houses being built for Rwandan citizens.

For a deterrent to be effective, it has to be credible. There is next to nothing in the Bill that is remotely credible, because it is about chasing headlines and government by gimmick when what we need is common sense, hard graft and quiet diplomacy so that we can really go after the people smugglers upstream and do a deal on returns and on family reunion. What we need is Labour’s five-point plan, which will stop the small boat crossings, clear the Tory asylum backlog and re-establish a firm, fair and well-managed asylum system.

I said yesterday that the Bill was being rushed through Committee at such a speed as to make detailed consideration and debate almost impossible. That applies perhaps even more to today’s sitting.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I note what the shadow Minister says about quiet diplomacy. Actually, it seems to me that the Prime Minister has a very good, cordial relationship with the President of France, but it is quite clear that that alone will not be enough to sort this problem out.

[Stephen Kinnock]

Well, the Conservative party has spent the past five or six years completely destroying our relationships with our European neighbours and partners, so any improvement on that is very welcome, but I feel that the Prime Minister has an uphill struggle on his hands, given the very low base from which he is starting.

Illegal Migration Bill

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 27th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

It may have escaped the hon. Gentleman’s notice that when the botched Brexit negotiations took place we left the Dublin convention, which is crucial for returns. We have to find a deal that replaces it. That is about protecting our borders, because it is about returning people when their asylum claims are not successful.

A strategy for securing Britain’s borders must begin with a clear and honest recognition that we cannot solve these problems unilaterally. This is a collective international issue that requires a collective international solution, so closer co-operation with our nearest friends and neighbours must be our starting point and our No. 1 priority. That means urgent action, which will be taken forward from day 1 of a Labour Government, to negotiate a returns agreement with the EU to replace our previous participation in the Dublin system.

That is just the start, however. We also need to restore access for our law enforcement agencies to the treasure trove of information—from biometrics to travel history—that Eurodac and other databases provide in support of efforts to ensure that the removal of asylum seekers from the UK to safe EU countries is possible.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

Out of interest, the Labour party talks about safe and legal routes, so does it support a cap on the numbers coming through those routes? If so, how would it prioritise refugees, bearing in mind that there are hundreds of millions of people across the world who would like to move here and could conceivably get refugee status?

[Stephen Kinnock]

Yes, we do support a capped scheme for safe and legal routes, and it has to be based on prioritisation according to, for example, high grant rate countries and family reunions.

The hon. Gentleman’s intervention is all very well, but the reality is that those on the Government Benches have completely burned every relationship with our partners and allies across continental Europe and, as a result, we have left the Dublin convention. There is a direct connection between the massive surge in numbers coming on small boats and the Government’s botched Brexit negotiations.

Solving these problems also means establishing formal working arrangements to put the UK at the heart of international efforts to crack down on our real enemies here, the people smugglers, by relentlessly hunting them down and ensuring that they are brought to justice. The Labour party has set out a more targeted approach than the Government are currently undertaking; we would recruit a cross-border specialist unit in the National Crime Agency to go after the criminal gangs upstream, working with French experts and Europol. Finally, it means working closely with our European friends and allies to develop new safe and authorised routes from EU countries to the UK for those who are most in need of our help.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tim Farron]

Yes. There are arguments for stricter or less strict measures for dealing with migration and asylum, and it is important to discuss those, but it does not help when we have bogus nonsense figures being spouted, sometimes in this place. That just creates more heat and no light.

Let us deal with the charge that France is a safe place, that people should not be allowed to come here from there and they should just stay there. France could say that to Italy and Spain—

[Tom Hunt]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Tim Farron]

I will not give way again, sorry. I have taken loads of interventions and I am testing everyone’s patience; my speech is now 11 minutes in.

France could say the same to Italy or Spain, and then Italy or Spain could say, “Stay in the sea.” What we are seeing now is an attempt to undermine Britain’s part in the globe. We were told by some Conservative Members that we were leaving the European Union but not Europe, and that we would now be “global Britain.” Ignoring for a moment the moral obligations we have to people seeking sanctuary, let us remember what message it will send to our neighbours, friends and allies around Europe and elsewhere if we unilaterally decide that we are not going to play the game. This undermines our soft power and our sovereignty. This is why we support new clause 3, which deals with setting a target and gives a clear sense of Britain stepping up to the plate and being part of a global operation.

The Government talk about deterrence, but the Bill fails to understand the horrors that people have been through. People who have left Sudan or Eritrea often go through Libya, and I would ask Conservative Members to spend a moment to research what it is like for a refugee passing from the horn of Africa, for example, through to Libya and then crossing the Mediterranean. What are their experiences? We tell those people that it will be scary and that we are not going to treat them very nicely when they cross the channel, but that is nothing compared with their experience of crossing Libya. I ask Members to inform themselves about that in particular.

The Bill is clearly not aimed at tackling the criminal gangs. The simple fact is that the criminal gangs’ business model will remain alive and well. Why? Because people will arrive on these shores and then not claim asylum. They will go under the radar, which fuels modern slavery and criminality. More people will be exploited, especially women and girls. There is no question whatsoever that this Bill will do anything to tackle the business model of those gangs—it is clearly not intended to, which is another outrage. It is indeed a traffickers’ charter. It will therefore lead to more deaths in the channel. It is a recipe for uncontrollable borders, because there will be nobody applying for asylum. They will just slip under the radar. If the Government had done an impact assessment, they would know that. Maybe they did, but they have not shared it with us.

The simple fact is that we need safe and legal routes. People from Ukraine, Afghanistan, Syria or Hong Kong stand a chance, one way or another, of having a safe route to the United Kingdom. But if you are a young Christian man seeking to avoid being conscripted in Eritrea, a woman seeking sanctuary from Iran or a person from a religious minority in Sudan, you have no chance whatsoever of getting here. That is morally outrageous. We are turning our back on our long-held principles and obligations. That is why new clause 6 is so important and why, with your permission, Dame Eleanor, we will push it to a vote tonight.

New clause 6 would ringfence asylum seekers from those countries that already have an 80%-plus grant rate—places such as Sudan, Eritrea and Iran. It proposes a pilot scheme for 12 months—this is measured, small and not all that ambitious—just to give the Government an opportunity not to be duplicitous about this and to show that we are at least providing an experimental and evidence-based safe route. I urge the Government to accept the new clause; otherwise, we will seek to divide the House. New clause 4 talks about a humanitarian travel permit, and new clause 7 deals with refugee family reunion.

If the Government seriously want to make the case that the Bill is going to undermine the business case of the people traffickers, evil as they are, they will fail to do so unless they provide meaningful, tangible, credible safe and legal routes. Those routes do not currently exist, and these new clauses allow the Government the opportunity to create them. If they will not accept them, this will prove that they do not have a plan to stop the boats and that they are just getting into the gutter to grub for votes.

To be fair, I think the Government have misjudged those who seek sanctuary here. I have met many of them. I have been to Calais and other places, and I have had to interrogate why people would choose to come to the United Kingdom. The hon. Member for Devizes set out many of those reasons, but I have never discovered among those people any who have heard of the national health service or our benefit system. The lie that they are somehow coming over here to sponge off or threaten us is just that: it is simply untrue.

But those people have heard of something: they have heard of a Britain that is safe, where they can raise their children, where they can be who they are and have whatever faith they may be and whatever political views they may hold—a place where they can raise and feed their family in safety. I cannot imagine anything making me more proud than that being the reputation of this country. No amount of small-minded attempts to change the law by this “here today, gone tomorrow” Tory Government will dent that reputation. I think the Government have misjudged not only the asylum seekers, but Britain too.

Let me tell the House a story about my constituency, and then I will shut up. Let us be honest, the Lake District is not the most diverse part of the United Kingdom, yet in August 1945 half the children who survived the death camps, including Auschwitz, came to Windermere to be rehabilitated and to start their lives afresh, because that is who we really are. That is who Britain really is and we should be proud of that. Let us absolutely stop the boats, but let us do so in a way that makes sense and that is neither dozy nor dangerous.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stella Creasy]

The Minister needs to be clear about how those people have been identified. There are people tonight in Tehran at direct risk of harm and needing our help. The challenge with this legislation is that it refuses to set out a safe and legal route, saying that it will be done in secondary guidance. None of us can therefore be confident enough to say to those people, “Hold up—wait for the queue and the bureaucracy. There is somewhere for you to go. Don’t worry, because help is coming.”

The Government must connect with international organisations and uphold the international rule of law. The honest truth is that the only way the world will be able to stand up to dictators and persecutors and against war is by collaborating. We have seen that in such a powerful way in Ukraine, yet we do not seem to be capable of learning the lessons by setting out schemes and being able to say to people, “Actually, there is a way forward, and we will all share the burden of standing up for these values.” That is what a sensible asylum policy would do, because it would be effective. We would cut off the boats at source by having proper, safe and legal routes for people so that they would not need to get on a boat to claim in the first place. Irregular routes are inevitable because of why people are running in the first place.

I also want to speak briefly to amendments 131 and 132—I pay testament to the Member who spoke to me previously about them—which are about our role in the European Court of Human Rights. I am sorry that the hon. Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger) is not here, because I was hoping he might want a chance to clarify his earlier remark, in which he genuinely tried to suggest that Winston Churchill opposed us being part of the European Court of Human Rights. As somebody who served on the Council of Europe and repeatedly saw pictures of Winston Churchill—

[Tom Hunt]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Stella Creasy]

I will, if the hon. Gentleman will let me finish my sentence; I am sure he wishes to hear what I have to say. I thought it was worth hearing from the man himself, because his argument for a European Court of Human Rights was that:

“In the centre of our movement”—

don’t tell anybody that he wanted a united Europe—

“stands the idea of a Charter of Human Rights, guarded by freedom and sustained by law.”

What Winston Churchill saw then, we still see now, which is overbearing Governments who do not respect the courts of law and do not want the scrutiny of law. These amendments speak to precisely that fear: that legislation in this country might be poorly drafted, burdensome or, indeed, oppressive. What we all want, and what we would find common cause with Winston Churchill on—that does not happen often—is the importance of keeping politicians honest by putting them up to the scrutiny of the courts. Now I will happily give way, to see how the hon. Gentleman feels he can be honest and whether he wants to support these amendments and take that point away.

[Tom Hunt]

I will attempt to answer on behalf of my colleague, the hon. Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger), who I spoke to earlier about this. One of his key points was that what the late Sir Winston Churchill signed up in 1950 did not involve rule 39 audits. The way in which the situation has evolved means that what we are dealing with today is totally different from the situation that faced this country in 1950, so to make that comparison is crude, and it is wrong. I am sure that when my hon. Friend comes back and makes a further intervention at some point, either today or tomorrow, he will powerfully deal with the critique that the hon. Member has just put in front of him.

[Stella Creasy]

I hope that the hon. Member for Devizes is at dinner, because after having made that speech, I am sure he needs something to eat. I simply say that that was not what Winston Churchill stood up for—as those of us who have served on the Council of Europe and read his speeches in detail know—let alone subsequent Conservative Governments. Those Governments were part of the development of the Council of Europe, where we did not just scrutinise the judges but helped appoint them and vote for them: we had a direct role in choosing them. That does not accord with what the hon. Gentleman was arguing, which was that this is out of kilter. Every single step of the way, the United Kingdom has been part and parcel of developing the European Court of Human Rights—and rightly so, frankly, because the libertarian in me speaks up for the Court. If given the temptation to be overbearing, without scrutiny and without the courts to keep them honest, Governments of all colours will do things that none of us think right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I rise to speak against the Government clauses before the Committee today and in favour of several amendments that seek to limit their horror and inhumanity.

The changes made by clauses 37 to 48 to the legal and human rights of asylum seekers breach the UK’s human rights obligations. The proposed timescales and tests, combined with the lack of judicial oversight, build in unfairness and undermine access to justice. It is difficult to see how a vulnerable and traumatised person will be able to engage with the process, especially as the provisions do not set out any right to legal advice and representation.

That is one of the many reasons that I support new clause 26 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Bell Ribeiro-Addy), which would require an equality impact assessment about how people with protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010 will be impacted by the Bill. Indeed, protections for vulnerable people, pregnant women and children are being tossed aside in favour of new powers to indefinitely detain people at greater risk of harm, including survivors of torture, trafficking and modern slavery.

The new and sweeping powers of arbitrary detention are nothing short of spine chilling. The Bill will increase the number of people detained, while removing the bulk of the essential safeguards that were put in place to protect people, adding to the inherent harm caused by indefinite detention. That is despite the UK’s immigration detention system being plagued by mismanagement, profiteering by private companies and incidents of systemic and direct abuse and neglect, including the scandals reported at Brook House immigration removal centre, the Manston short-term holding facility, Harmondsworth IRC and many others.

What is the purpose of this sweeping and illegitimate restriction of people’s liberties? What is the crime that such individuals have committed to be treated worse than serious criminals and to have fewer rights? Today, this Government propose to punish people for seeking asylum. Not satisfied with that, they seek to ensure that those people cannot challenge this injustice—all essentially to deter anyone else from coming to the UK to seek sanctuary. They are literally planning to persecute the already persecuted.

Denying access to asylum on such a basis undermines the very purpose for which the refugee convention was established. The convention explicitly recognises that refugees may be compelled to enter a country of asylum irregularly. The United Nations Refugee Agency has said:

“Most people fleeing war and persecution are simply unable to access the required passports and visas. There are no safe and ‘legal’ routes available to them.”

The reality is that the UK offers safety to far fewer refugees per capita than the average European country, such as France or Germany, and to far fewer than the countries neighbouring those from which 70% of the refugees from the global south flee. That is why I support new clause 10 tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake), which sets out a requirement to introduce a safe passage visa scheme. She has spoken eloquently about the stories behind the numbers and statistics—the people with real lives, hopes and dreams.

If the Government seriously wanted to protect the lives at risk from small boat crossings, they would back more generous family reunification rights and support safe, functioning routes. Instead, the Bill is the latest in a long line of measures that form their hostile environment and the toxic, racist and xenophobic narrative that is taking hold in many parts of the world, based on fear and the manipulation of that fear. It is immoral, deeply cruel and divisive. It breaks international law, it crushes human rights and it is shameful.

[Tom Hunt]

I have waited for a very long time to speak on the Bill. On Second Reading, I think I waited for four hours but did not get called. I have waited for a good amount of time today, too, but it has only made me more determined to get my points across.

I did not sign any of the amendments before the Committee, but I have sympathy with many of them, particularly amendment 131 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger), amendment 132 in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Mr Clarke), and amendments 133 and 134 in the name of my hon. Friend and very senior colleague the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash). Although it might surprise some people, I have a little bit of sympathy with amendments 72 to 75 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), but I do not think that now—before we have sorted out the scourge of illegal immigration and its impact in this country—is the right time to pursue such amendments.

In a general sense, it will not surprise people to know that I welcome the Bill. We have 45,000 people a year entering the country illegally. They are mostly young men, as has been statistically proven; many are from safe-origin countries; and every single one of them has gone through France and multiple other safe European countries but has refused to claim asylum. They have decided to shop between different safe European countries, and they have come here. Being an economic migrant and moving to the UK because there are job opportunities here is a very noble dream, of course, but my advice to them is to engage with our legal migration points-based system, and we will make a determination as to whether their dream and our needs meet.

We are the party that believes in controlling our borders. We are the party that believes in strong border controls. Labour Members get incredibly sensitive whenever anybody suggests that they believe in open borders, but I simply say to them, “Show me the evidence. Show me the evidence that you believe in controlled immigration. Show me the evidence that you don’t believe in open borders. When I look at your record, every single thing you vote on is against precisely those things, so I don’t think it is unreasonable for me and colleagues to come to the conclusion that you are opposed to all border controls. As I say, show me the evidence.”

I turn to amendment 131. When the Rwanda policy was first introduced, a lot of us supported it because we saw what had happened in Australia. Australia had had a massive problem with illegal immigration, but it went down the route of offshore processing, and today it no longer has that massive problem. It is quite simple. A few Opposition Members are saying, “Australia did not work”, but we looked into this in detail and met Australian officials, and it did work. We think that going ahead with the Rwanda policy, if it were given a chance to work, would provide a significant deterrent. It would save lives at sea, and would enable us to operate the compassionate, controlled asylum system that virtually all of us in this place want.

Antisocial Behaviour Action Plan

Tom Hunt Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Suella Braverman]

We want to ensure that sufficient resource is available to local authorities and police forces so that they can take meaningful steps to sanction those involved in antisocial behaviour—whether through the community payback scheme, in which we see the perpetrators undertaking the clean-up job afterwards, or through the higher fines that we have announced—and we want to enable local authorities to retain much of the revenue so that they can reinvest it in their resources.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

What I have heard consistently throughout the time I have been a Member of Parliament is that long-term residents who love their town no longer feel comfortable going into the town centre. Often they see groups of young men behaving in a way that diminishes the quality of that experience for the law-abiding majority. Does the Home Secretary agree that we need a permanently higher police presence in the town centre, but also that the police need to be much more confident about engaging earlier with these groups of men blighting our town centre?

[Suella Braverman]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are seeing far too many instances of bad behaviour, dangerous behaviour and unacceptable behaviour going unchecked—whether that is violent or disruptive behaviour or a plain nuisance. We need to ensure that visible policing becomes a fact of life, so that people are deterred from engaging in this behaviour in the first place, but also that we have a system of immediate justice so there is a swift sanction and people feel the full force of the law.