Draft Onshore Hydraulic Fracturing (Protected Areas) Regulations 2015

Tommy Sheppard Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 General Committees

[The Chair]

Before I call the Minister to move the motion, let me say that there has been a lot of interest from Members in contributing to the debate. I intend to allow non-members of the Committee to speak after members of the Committee who have indicated whether they wish to contribute. This debate is only an hour and a half long, so given the interest, I implore Members following the Front Benchers to be reasonably brief.

[Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Mr Hanson. I seek clarification on the position of Scottish Members on this Committee following the changes made last Thursday by the House as a whole to Standing Orders in relation to English votes for English laws. Our understanding—I would appreciate clarification —is that we will be able to fully participate in this Committee for two reasons; first, we are talking about secondary legislation that relates to primary legislation that preceded the EVEL change; and secondly the Scottish Parliament does not yet have legislative authority over this matter and will not do so until 2018.

[The Chair]

I am grateful to you for raising this issue, Mr Sheppard. I confirm as the Chair that you can debate and vote in this Committee today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tommy Sheppard]

I think we can all agree that there is a fair degree of public concern and anxiety about this process and our deliberations should try to build public trust on this matter. I was not a Member of the House in January, but I was here to observe the debate on the Infrastructure Bill and I saw the Government head off demands for a moratorium by saying that certain areas would be exempt from this technology. I do not think that it builds public trust to say in January that there will not be fracking under any circumstances in national parks or sites of special scientific interest, then to say in October that, actually, there might be regulations which will allow it to happen under certain circumstances.

The way some colleagues have talked about the 1,200 metres being somehow okay, it is as if there is a disconnection between what happens 1,200 metres under the ground and what happens on the surface; as if some mysterious process happens down there to create shale gas and then, Star Trek style, it is teleported into a lovely, shiny, clean canister and there are no problems. However, what happens 1,200 metres down is connected to the surface and what happens at 100, 200, 300 and 400 metres, all the way through the water aquifers, all the way through until you get to 1,200 metres.

[Harry Harpham (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Tommy Sheppard]

Not with three minutes to go—two minutes, I am sorry. The problem with this process, which is essentially more a chemical than a mechanical process, such as coalmining or conventional oil drilling, is that you have to pump stuff down and get stuff up all the way through the 1,200 metres and there is every chance that leakage could take place and the environment be damaged. Why 1,200 metres? Why not 1,500 metres? Why not a mile? The answer is in the explanatory notes, which talk about a balance between environmental protection and the needs of the industry. That is not good enough to reassure the public.

[Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way, very briefly?

[Tommy Sheppard]

I am just finishing, but I will give way.

[Mr Grieve]

The hon. Gentleman says he objects to there being a balance, but what is happening up in Scotland when they put up a wind farm? They are having to balance getting the energy from the wind farm with the destruction of the peat land on which it is situated. We are always striking a balance and to argue that we should not do so is to argue that we should do nothing at all.

[Tommy Sheppard]

I am not entirely sure what that has to do with the debate on this SI. A balance may be struck with wind farming between the turbines and aesthetic judgments of the landscape and various other things, but here we are talking about striking a balance between public safety and environmental protection on one hand, and the needs of the industry on the other. If we want to reassure the public, we should not seek to compromise on those things. We should say that public safety and environmental protection are paramount, and that we will proceed with this technology within that framework. The problem here—unlike in Scotland, where there is a moratorium and the Government are seeking to develop a policy based on evidence—is that the policy appears to have already been decided and the evidence is being bent to fit the policy.