Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities

Debate between Tony Lloyd and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 17th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I can assure my hon. Friend that that is the case. The evidence and looking underneath it at the details of what is happening is important; otherwise, how can we tell when looking at something negative that has happened to someone from an ethnic minority whether that is racism or not? In many cases, when the commission examined a case where racial discrimination was given as a reason, it found that that did not explain the disparity. One example is the difference between black African and black Caribbean students when it came to exclusion. There is a statistic that black children are more likely to be excluded from school than white children, but looking at the data, black African children, who are far more in number than black Caribbean children, are far less likely to be excluded than white children, even within the same communities, compared to black Caribbean children. They have the same skin colour. Racism does not explain that disparity. That is an example of why people need to look at the evidence and not immediately jump to a discrimination conclusion.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

I am astonished that the Minister does not think that there is evidence of racial disparity in this country. She made the point that a strong early start makes all the difference. When the Government smashed up Sure Start, that made a demonstrable difference to black, Asian and minority ethnic communities, and, yes, to the deprived white communities in Britain. She is talking about putting £500 million back. Can she go back to the Treasury and say that that is totally inadequate if we are going to make a real difference? Can she go and tell the Treasury that if we want to make a difference, real money can do that?

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Gentleman is putting words into my mouth that I did not say and that the commission did not say. I have already disputed that. It is not true to say that we have not found any evidence for racism or racial disparity in this country; that is not the case.

Regarding the hon. Gentleman’s comment about Sure Start, I remind him that when we came into government in 2010, the country’s finances were in a dire state. His party ran down the finances of this country, and we have spent the past 10 years fixing them, which is why we are able to put more money back in the system. He is citing one particular statistic on funding. He does not, for example, mention the £14 billion increase, which is unheard of and, frankly, unprecedented in this country. We are doing what works, not just complaining because we do not want to see Conservatives do well. We are going to do well for this country, and I am very proud of what this action plan puts forward.

Covid-19: Disparate Impact

Debate between Tony Lloyd and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

The reason I have asked that we mandate recording is that that was one of the gaps identified. We did not get a full picture of what was going on, and we need to have a full picture. As my hon. Friend rightly says, everything we are doing will help the whole population. We are not segregating people on the basis of this disease. Mandating ethnicity data will not just help ethnic minority populations; it will help everybody.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) [V]]

I am sure the Minister will be well aware of the research by the Financial Conduct Authority showing that while one in three of our fellow citizens has seen an income cut because of covid, that rises to 40% among black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. The impact is not just on individuals or even households: where there is a concentration of people from BAME backgrounds, it affects the much wider community. What research will the Minister engage in on the economic impact, because we know that economic collapse leads to lower mental and physical health and all the other social aspects that come with it?

[Kemi Badenoch]

That would be outside the terms of reference of the review that I am leading over the year. However, as a Treasury Minister, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we have distributional analysis that comes out with all this information and influences all the policies that we put out in terms of economic interventions for specific groups.