House of Lords: Reform

Viscount Astor Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Astor]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, has just given a speech that I am sure will be used by every Liberal Democrat candidate who wishes to stand at an election to this House in the future. It was a virtuoso performance. I am afraid that my contribution will be somewhat more modest. I believe that the question we should be asking ourselves is how we get both Front Benches off the hooks on which they have each impaled themselves with their pride and their principles intact—I refer to my own Benches and those of noble Lords opposite.

In a Statement a few weeks ago, my noble friend Lord Strathclyde needed to be brave because he had little support from this side of the House. What perhaps was even more extraordinary was the response from the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition. Her speech could almost have been written by any Back-Bencher on this side of the House who was against reform. Listening to her today, I was still no clearer on Labour Party policy.

While I am having a swipe at Front Benches, I was also disappointed to hear the speech of the right reverend Prelate. Neither today nor at the time of the Statement did any right reverend Prelate make any mention of the other faiths which surely deserve a place in this House. Despite the fact that we have an established church, other churches and faiths should be represented here.

We will have a committee full of the great and the good who will be drawn from this House and another place. The proposed committee will be full of experienced Members but they will not in any way reflect the diversity—whether it is the background, the age, or the views—of the Members of this House, which is disappointing. I worry that its remit will be too narrow and based solely on the White Paper and the draft Bill. Will my noble friend the Leader of the House assure us that its remit can be wider than just the White Paper and draft Bill? Will the committee also be able to consider what changes are required to the working practices between the two Houses?

There are a numbers of issues about which most of us agree, even if we disagree about the solutions. First, we all, or nearly all, accept that this House is too large. In fact, it is ridiculously large. As seen earlier today, there is not room to sit down. I make no apology for repeating again that we are the second largest parliamentary Chamber in the world, second only to the Chinese National People’s Congress. We must cut the numbers and have a retirement plan. We are the only second Chamber in the Commonwealth larger than the first. We must make some changes. As we have heard, most of your Lordships disagree with this proposed reform, but often for different reasons and with different preferred outcomes.

However, we have to accept that both main parties in their manifestos—and the Lib Dems—proposed an elected element for this House. But in a year, time has moved on. We have a coalition governed by an agreement, which included reform of this House. I believe that that needs to be rethought, as it is not clear that a majority of MPs now favour a fully elected second Chamber. If we are to have an elected House, it must be based on parliamentary constituencies. I worry that 300 Peers could not manage all the work. We still receive legislation that has been guillotined by another place, and it looks as though we will continue to do so.

Any election must be on a first past the post system. The idea of having a list system when it has been convincingly thrown out by a near 3:1 majority in the recent referendum is ridiculous. What about the plan for 100 senators to be elected in 2015, another 100 in 2020 and a final 100 in 2025? These senators will be paid a salary. The remaining Peers will not be paid any salary but will be expected to work just as hard. The new senators would be elected but unaccountable to their electorate. They would serve a term of 15 years and any change of Government could not be reflected.

Can my noble friend cite any other parliamentary Chamber in the world that has a 15-year term? The nearest I can get is Liberia, which has a nine-year term. In France, there used to be a nine-year term but it was reduced to seven years. I believe that before we ever go down the road of major constitutional change, the proposal should be put to the people, which means that any change must be put to the country in a referendum. If we can have a referendum on AV, we surely deserve one for this major constitutional reform. The referendum could be held at the same time as the next general election. There could be a simple question: should this House be appointed or elected and if so how? If the Bill appears in this House, I will move a referendum amendment and I hope that your Lordships will support it. I also believe that we should take the campaign for a referendum outside this House and not just keep it within.

However, there is a second alternative that I hope your Lordships will consider. It is based on the premise that constitutional change should be agreed by all sides and brought in as part of a gradual transition. I believe that we should have a number of elected Peers. I do not believe that we can ignore all the manifesto commitments made by the major parties. Perhaps we should have 76 Peers based on the Euro constituencies, which we know and understand. It should be first past the post and for five years. That would allow Parliament—both Houses—to understand how it works, and to look and see how to develop the next stage.

It is a pity that the Government and the coalition seem to have ruled this out, as it would fulfil their manifesto commitment and the coalition agreement. It would allow all those who are knowledgeable, able and effective in this House to continue, and those who wish to retire to do so. We need a second Chamber that complements the work of the first and does not compete with it, but will hold the Executive to account. One must always remember that political parties in opposition love the House of Lords. It is the only place where they have any chance of defeating the Government. However, we have all seen on both sides that, once parties get into power, the House of Lords is seen as an irritant which disrupts the carefully thought-out Bills of various ambitious Ministers in another place. I intend to continue to be an irritant but I hope in a constructive manner.