Israel and Palestine

Wayne David Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr McCabe.

No one can doubt the gravity of the situation in Gaza. Despite what we see on our television screens night after night, we cannot begin to understand the horror for the people of Gaza, who live through this terror day in, day out. It is particularly moving and distressing to see so many children who have lost their lives and are being injured in such a terrible way.

Equally, no one can doubt the sincerity of the people of this country who share our emotions and who decided to sign the petitions in such great numbers—many thousands of people. I have also been extremely moved by the contributions that we have heard from Members today. We have heard a number of genuine and heartfelt contributions; if there is a commonality between them, it is that our shared view is that the killing and horror must stop as quickly as humanly possible. The question is: what would our intervention be most effective in doing, and what form should that intervention take?

A number of people have said that we should be arguing for a ceasefire from both parties as quickly as possible. I can understand the sentiment behind that, because we all want to stop the killing, but it is important to bear in mind that if we are to have a genuine ceasefire, it needs both warring parties to agree to that. Unfortunately, there is little indication that that would be the case.

That is why, personally, I believe very strongly that we must argue for a meaningful cessation of violence. It has happened on one occasion; sadly, it did not continue, but I still think it is worth making the case for that, because that will save lives and will hopefully move us towards a situation in which we could have a genuine, long-lasting peace. It is also important to recognise that that momentary pause saw the release of a number of a hostages. That is something that we must never forget. It was extremely important for those families who were concerned about those hostages, who were being held in the most appalling conditions and were being treated badly, it seems. That must be foremost in our minds as well.

A further meaningful cessation of violence would allow the real relief that is desperately needed to come into Gaza in a meaningful way. We had some short respite, but that is obviously nowhere near enough. We must place the emphasis on what is desperately needed by so many people there: more food, more water, more medicines and, critically, more fuel.

It is so important that we do not lock ourselves into seemingly esoteric discussions about what words or phrases we use. We must do everything we humanly can to make life easier for the people of Gaza. In a very practical sense, there is also a need for our Government and all Governments to argue for more relief routes into Gaza. I strongly urge the Government to make forceful representations, if they are not currently making them already, for the Kerem Shalom crossing to be opened by the Israeli Government as quickly as possible.

I want to make a few broader points as well. Inevitably, and quite rightly perhaps, our focus is on the situation in Gaza. Let us not forget what is happening in the west bank as well. Since 7 October, we have seen an increase in settler violence, we have seen some 300 attacks by illegal settlers, and we have seen 250 Palestinian people killed, as well as four Israelis. It is extremely important to recognise in this situation that those settlements—which have taken place, are currently expanding, and it seems being given more funds by the Israeli Government—should not be there. They are illegal settlements.

Today, at least, we should be saying that there should be no increase in those settlements. Hopefully, we can move to a situation where there are no such settlements in a future Palestinian state. It is also important that we note what the United States of America has being saying and doing, and I take note of what my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) said regarding action on visas. I think it is very important that the United Kingdom does exactly the same as the United States.

[Matt Western]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. On the point on the illegal settlements, does he share a concern that this current conflict is potentially being exploited by certain factions within the coalition Government to pursue a particular ideology, and to actually accelerate that programme of illegal settlement in the pursuit of the eradication of Palestine as once imagined?

[Wayne David]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point indeed. It is very important that if we are going to move towards a two-state solution—I will say a little bit more about that in the future—it is necessary for us to recognise that political change and moderation is needed on both sides. We cannot have a situation where Hamas are seen to be the dominant Palestinian voice—they are not, incidentally, but many people believe that to be the case—when they want the destruction of the state of Israel.

We have to make sure we have strong connections with, and give support to, more reasonable Palestinian people who want to have a compromise with Israel and a two-state solution; but that applies equally to Israel as well. Unfortunately, Netanyahu is on record as being against a two-state solution, and there are elements in his war cabinet who want to see the encroachment of Israeli settlers into much of the west bank—some people have even suggested into Gaza as well.

It is extremely important that the international community begins to think about those issues, and begins to work towards a consensus on what needs to be achieved in the future. That is very important for ensuring we have a longer-term perspective, even in these dark days of conflict.

[Andrew Percy]

I am the only Conservative Member on this side of the Chamber, so hopefully I can be indulged a little. I hope the hon. Gentleman was not trying to draw any equivalence between democratically elected politicians in Israel—whether we agree with them or not—and desire for political change involving Hamas. On that point, would he share my concern that while we all want to see increased co-operation, Palestinian pollsters the Arab World for Research and Development—that is based in Ramallah, and I have met with its staff—show that, I think, 83% of Palestinians across the west bank currently reject co-existence with Israel, and 75% of them support the attacks of 7 October. How are we going to affect that political change when the views on the other side seem so intransigent on the issue?

[Wayne David]

First, I do recognise that Israel is a democratic state, but at the same time I recognise that a minority of politicians—albeit duly elected—do not articulate what is the view of most Israeli people; that is why it is important for us to stress moderation. I am someone who has been to both the west bank and Israel, and I strongly believe that the vast majority of everyone I met wants peace, and to live together in peaceful co-existence. It is our duty to work towards that, and to make sure they have the context in which they can work out that long-term peaceful settlement.

I want to say something about looking to the future. The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) made a very good point when she stressed the importance of international humanitarian law—it is absolutely essential. We cannot be in a situation where we pick and choose which international laws we like; they must apply to everyone in all situations. It is incumbent on us as an international community, and as a country that upholds international law, to make sure that the International Criminal Court is able to look into the conduct of this conflict by all sides and come to some very firm conclusions that must influence our politics in the future.

It is also important that the Government play a very proactive role in the future of the middle east. I might be wrong, but I get the impression that over the last few years our Government have tended to downgrade the importance of their engagement with the middle east—that needs to change. There needs to be far greater emphasis, consistency and real commitment from the Government, and I hope we will see that in the future. It is important we see that in the near future, because once this conflict is over what we cannot see is another Nakba occurring. We cannot see the population of Gaza being forced into Egypt: that is totally unacceptable. That is why I want a meaningful cessation of hostilities, so that we can begin to talk materially about these issues. I want to see Gaza being rebuilt, which will require greater investment by the international community. It will mean Britain and others working with the Arab states to make sure that there is sufficient investment and security, both for Palestinians and for Israelis, as soon as the conflict is over.

My final point is that it is very important that in this difficult situation we hold out a clear vision for the future, and it is also very important that that future must rest on a two-state solution. To achieve that, we need to have hope; we need to have hope that it is better for people to live together than to engage in perpetual conflict. The choice for the international community is very clear. One possibility is pretending that, once the conflict is over, “There you are, we can pack our bags, forget about it and go on to the next conflict.” We cannot do that. We must learn the lesson of history, which is that if the international community, working with everybody in the region, does not do its level best to make sure that there is a two-state solution, this terrible conflict will be replicated in 20 years’ time, another 20 years after that and so on.

We have to make sure that the issue is addressed in a systematic and coherent way. I very much hope that the Government share that perspective and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to this debate.