NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill
Wendy Morton Excerpts(10 years, 2 months ago)
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Michael Tomlinson
I understand that point, which is similar to other points questioning the benefit and the cost, but I respectfully suggest that the benefit outweighs the cost in this case and that the public, seeing that they are consulted, would once again be re-engaged with the political process, which I think my hon. Friend should support.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
My hon. Friend rightly points out that my private Member’s Bill emerged as a result of consultation with NHS charitable trusts. Does he agree, however, that it is unusual to be seeking public consultation on a technical change that is consequential to my Bill?
Michael Tomlinson
I am very grateful for that helpful intervention. I would wish to expand on the issue of an EU referendum, but I suspect that Mr Speaker would encourage me to move on, so I will not be tempted down that line. I understand the point my hon. Friend makes and will merely respectfully suggest that the word “appropriate” speaks for itself and requires no further elaboration.
Given your encouragement, Mr Speaker, I will now move on to amendments 5 and 6, which also stand in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash. They seek to remove the requirement that the regulations may make provision consequential to the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers; in effect, they would remove the affirmative resolution procedure and insert the negative one. They are simple amendments, so I will not take up your time in debating them at length, Mr Speaker. In effect, the debate is being held now, as is perfectly appropriate, and it would therefore be unnecessary in this case to bring it back.
Wendy Morton
We have discussed the use of the word “appropriate”. Does my hon. Friend feel that these two amendments are appropriate and necessary? I do not feel that they add anything to the Bill, and there is no need for them.
Michael Tomlinson
I am grateful for that intervention, but my view is that in this case it is unnecessary to use the affirmative procedure to approve the matter and the negative procedure would suffice. I understand the point that my hon. Friend makes, but I respectfully suggest that these amendments are appropriate. I was looking up one of the notes in the Library, perhaps one prepared by one of your predecessors, Mr Speaker, and I found that it stated that the affirmative procedure is less common, being used in perhaps only 10% of cases.
I will not take up time by referring to the other amendments, merely noting that several and other hon. Members will speak to them in due course. I look forward to a constructive debate on this group.
Mr Rees-Mogg
My hon. Friend ignores the starting point, which is that the Secretary of State makes the appointments, whereas that has never been the case for other charities. They have evolved differently, whereas NHS charities are evolving out of the NHS, more towards the private sector. To put in place a safeguard which one hopes would not be used seems to me quite a prudent thing to do. It says, “This is our hope, this is our intention. We expect it to work and we think it will work in the vast majority of cases and make NHS charities more like other private sector charities.”
Wendy Morton
I am grateful. The Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill is proceeding through this House. It comes back to the Chamber next week, giving us the opportunity to hear more about the work of the Charity Commission. Does my hon. Friend agree that when the NHS charities that we are discussing today become independent, there is the assurance that they will be covered by the Charity Commission? That goes a long way to ensuring public trust in those charities, which is the crux of the matter.
Mr Rees-Mogg
I suppose the answer is “Up to a point, Lord Copper.” The Charity Commission has marvellous and admirable elements. It has a brilliant chairman who has been a great force for good in that organisation, sorting out some of the problems that it had before his appointment. I think particularly of the dreadful treatment meted out to the Plymouth Brethren before he was there. It is none the less an unelected, unaccountable quango. I take the rather extraordinary view that we should trust our democratically elected politicians more than we should trust the unelected. That is why I am always banging on about this House maintaining its own powers, and why we should hold Ministers to account. We should be very cautious about thinking that an independent, unaccountable body is a better supervisor than the democratic will of the nation expressed through this House.
When responsibility is shifted, it is prudent to do that cautiously, in stages, and to keep a safeguard in place. When the first case goes wrong, which it will—within 10 years something will have happened; there will be an NHS charity where the accountant has snaffled off all the money and gone to Barbados or wherever it is fashionable to go at this time of year, or perhaps gone off to South Africa to watch the test match—at that point people will say, “Why didn’t the Government do something about that? Why have they not got a plan? Why didn’t they make sure that they could keep it under control?”. Having a protection, possibly even a time-limited one—
Mr Rees-Mogg
I reiterate—I am sorry, Mr Speaker, to reiterate. I may be becoming repetitive, but I hope not yet tediously repetitive; that may come at a later stage. We need to look at the starting point. These charities are coming out of the control of the Secretary of State. To move them completely away from his control in one fell swoop may be relatively imprudent, whereas to do it more cautiously and keep a safeguard is perfectly sensible. By contrast, in the case of charities that have never been under the Secretary of State and have never had their trustees appointed by the Government, it is perfectly sensible to leave them with their existing regulatory system.
Wendy Morton
We have had a lot of debate about the term “appropriate”. What exactly does my hon. Friend mean by “cautiously”? I have to say that I am very sceptical about this amendment.
Mr Rees-Mogg
As I said, it is a question is how we get to where we are going from where we are starting. As we make the transition, it is absolutely crucial to ensure that the money is handed over in a way that is properly audited so that people can have confidence in the NHS charities and not feel that there is some kind of sleight of hand or money is being siphoned off.
Wendy Morton
Does my hon. Friend not agree, though, that funds donated to the NHS and put into these charities must be held separately from Exchequer funding provided by the taxpayer? Charities exist to support their beneficiaries, and there is a special relationship between the charities and the—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. I am trying to be helpful to the hon. Lady in saying that I know it is a great temptation to address her remarks to the hon. Gentleman and look at him to gauge his reaction—looking at him is always, of course, a very great pleasure—but if she turns her back on the rest of the House, it does not work. It is really important that she should face the Chair. She can still speak about the hon. Gentleman and imagine him in her mind as she does so.
Wendy Morton
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is wonderful just to be able to imagine my hon. Friend in my mind. I have finished my intervention, but I am grateful for your advice and reminder.
Mr Rees-Mogg
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This has been a very distracting interlude, I must confess.
The key is the safeguarding of money and ensuring that things are done properly with an audit trail.
Wendy Morton
I take exception to the point about the Bill taking up the House’s time. It covers not only Great Ormond Street hospital, which is only one clause in it, but the group of special NHS charities. There are about 16 in total; there were 20. In the bigger scheme of things, there are around 260 NHS charities throughout the country, which all do fantastic work, and the Bill really deserves the debate, and the discussion about some interesting amendments. Although I will speak later, I will not support my hon. Friend’s amendments.
Kit Malthouse
My hon. Friend makes a mistake. I did not object to the time; my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin) objected to time possibly being used on these matters. I am perfectly happy. I think that the Bill is very good and I support its broad thrust.
Kit Malthouse
No, I would like to move on to amendment 2. I am conscious that others wish to speak.
Amendment 2 would address a particular issue that I have come across in my constituency work. The only national charity that is located in North West Hampshire is the Macular Society. It is quite small and raises about £5 million or £6 million a year, most of which goes into research. One of the complaints of the Macular Society, which obviously deals with sight-related illnesses, is that enormous charities for sight and blindness, such as RNIB and Guide Dogs for the Blind, which raise many tens of millions of pounds—more than £100 million each—put hardly any money into research. Although they are engaged in blindness in its wider sense, they do not use their muscle to improve the lives of those who are afflicted by blindness or partial sightedness through trying to find cures and therapies.
The Macular Society and others complain about that and the fact that, if there was more research, we might be able to do something about the conditions. Part of the reason for the lack of research must be the disconnection with the organisation with which the charities should engage. For example, although I have not looked, it would doubtless be helpful to Guide Dogs for the Blind if it had representatives on its board from the scientific community and some hospitals, such as the Western eye hospital, because then the charity might be compelled to put money into the right causes.
The amendment seeks to ensure that, when an NHS charity is attached to a particular hospital, that hospital is allowed to put at least one trustee on the board. The charities need to stay connected. They need to have a line of communication and to be able to see the right priorities in the organisation rather than decide on their own pet projects, which they foist on the hospital without negotiation. The disconnection between charity and purpose can often happen, and it seems to be particularly pertinent to blindness.
Wendy Morton
On the point about making these appointments, it would be helpful if my hon. Friend clarified to exactly which bodies the Secretary of State would have powers to appoint under the amendment.
Kit Malthouse
I am sorry, but I am actually talking about amendment 3, not amendment 2. I am getting myself confused because, in usual British fashion, the amendment paper has the amendments in the wrong order. I will deal with my hon. Friend’s point when I get to amendment 2.
Amendment 3 would simply ensure that, if any hospital has a charity attached, it has the power to appoint one trustee. That seems sensible. Many of those charities will already have such a provision in their trust document. The amendment would just to make sure of that.
Amendment 2 states that in “exceptional circumstances” the Secretary of State should have the power to
“appoint one or more trustees”.
That returns me to my primary point about when charitable trusts go rogue or off the reservation, or where charitable trustees become locked in a group-think situation. Rather than dismiss them all and take control, the Secretary of State may feel that it is more appropriate to appoint one or two people from outside who can add a bit of ginger to the board’s discussions, and challenge what they are doing.
For example, a particularly powerful charity that is attached to an NHS hospital might feel that it is flush with cash and that it needs to intervene in a dispute with its doctors, or that it may have cause to campaign politically against some of the things that the Government are doing. It might want to lobby on the NHS settlement by region. When trustees or charities stray into that area—there has been a lot of consternation about that across the House with regard to particular charities—the Secretary of State may reserve power in those exceptional circumstances to appoint one or two trustees to challenge that view.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. I did not want to interrupt the excellent flow of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, but, for the sake of clarity and the avoidance of doubt, and because he referred to the numbering and order of amendments—he has not said anything wrong; I wish merely to educate the House—I wish to explain that the order in which amendments are numbered is that in which they are received in the Public Bill Office, but the order in which they appear on the amendment paper is that in which they relate to the Bill. It is actually very logical, but if one does not know why, it sometimes is not obvious.
Wendy Morton
As the Bill’s promoter, I rise to contribute to its Report stage.
We have listened to some interesting amendments from hon. Members, for whose submissions and contributions I am grateful, as they have enabled us to discuss, probe and question the Bill further, which is really important. It is worth reminding ourselves that, as of March 2015, there were about 206 NHS charities, with a combined income of £327 million. They do a terrific job and make a huge contribution to many patients, hospitals and NHS staff. Everyone will agree that the vast majority of them, like all charities, do fantastic work and that only occasionally does something go wrong. Sadly when it does, as has been said today, it always makes the headlines.
The vast majority of NHS charities use the corporate trustee model, whereby the Secretary of State does not appoint the trustees.
Pauline Latham
I do not know whether my hon. Friend plans to mention the special care baby unit at Royal Derby hospital, but it has existed for more than 50 years and raises millions of pounds to help those special babies who are born prematurely and need extra help. Does she agree that all the charities that support NHS hospitals do incredibly valuable work?
Wendy Morton
I agree wholeheartedly, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for sharing with us the example of a hospital charity in her constituency and the fantastic work it does.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) for his amendment that would oblige the Secretary of State to carry out public consultation before making regulations consequential to the removal of his power to appoint trustees to NHS bodies. I understand where he is coming from. In my time as a councillor, many were the days when we discussed the pros and cons of public consultation. On the one hand, we often want more public consultation, but there are times when, as my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) said, we feel it leads nowhere. It is an interesting point, though, and one that has provoked some lively debate. We, as elected representatives, often ask these questions about public consultation.
Craig Whittaker
I am reminded of my family’s frequent trips to Disneyland Paris when my three children were much younger. Their favourite ride was the Peter Pan ride. They played a game to see who could first spot Wendy quivering on the end of the gangplank as Captain Hook chased her into the sea. Does my hon. Friend think that Wendy might be quivering that little bit harder at the thought of yet more public consultation?
Wendy Morton
Absolutely. I hope not to be pushed out to sea either, but that remains to be seen. I sincerely believe, however, that the Bill has a lot of support, as I will mention later on Third Reading.
Michael Tomlinson
Does my hon. Friend not recognise the central thrust of my argument—that the Bill itself was the product of public consultation? All those doom-mongers who have spoken against public consultation fail to see that such consultation has produced some good—namely, her own Bill.
Wendy Morton
My hon. Friend is correct that my Bill is the result of public consultation, as I will expand upon later.
Schedule 1 already makes a range of amendments to primary legislation consequential to the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers in England to appoint trustees to NHS bodies and to appoint special trustees, and it would be unusual to consult the public on regulations making such consequential changes. Proper scrutiny of such consequential amendments would be undertaken by Parliament. That is the main reason I do not support his amendment even though it is a valid discussion point.
I will move now to those amendments that relate to the appointment of trustees. My hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire has clearly given a lot of thought to my Bill and introduced some very worthy and interesting amendments. I wish to make it clear, however, that I do not wish to swap the letterbox of Aldridge-Brownhills for that of North West Hampshire, given the apparent tone of much of the mail that he receives, and neither would I wish to go camping with his family—the thought of my sleeping bag being laid on concrete does not appeal. I would prefer something more comfortable. Even a field would be preferable—ideally undercover.
The removal of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees is central to my Bill. Having him appoint trustees makes it difficult for these NHS bodies to demonstrate visible independence from Government in the eyes of potential donors. That cuts to the heart of my Bill. Having read and considered the amendments carefully, and having listened to this debate, I struggle to see how they would work on a technical level. The current power is to appoint trustees to particular NHS bodies or to appoint special trustees, not, as the amendments suggest, to appoint trustees to NHS charitable trusts. They therefore seek to re-establish a power that does not currently exist in such a form. I know that the Bill at times gets very technical, but we have to keep coming back to what it sets out to do and the consultation it came from. Similarly, the amendments seeking to retain the Secretary of State’s power to appoint trustees in particular circumstances, when there is a commitment to remove them, are not appropriate.
Before I talk further about amendments relating to trustees, it is important to remind ourselves of the background to clause 1, which I have alluded to before. The Bill concerns the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint. Since 1973, the Secretary of State has had powers to appoint so-called special trustees to manage charitable property on behalf of hospital boards. In 1990, powers for the Secretary of State to appoint trustees in relation to NHS trusts were enacted, and have since been extended to other NHS bodies. These powers are now set out in the National Health Service Act 2006, as amended.
My private Member’s Bill fulfils a commitment made by the Government subsequent to the Department of Health review and consultation—there is that word again—in 2012, which covered the governance of NHS charities. As a result, NHS charities will be allowed to convert to independence and the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees will be removed at the earliest opportunity. That is what my Bill is designed to achieve.
Mrs Sheryll Murray
In the light of what my hon. Friend has said, are not some of the amendments completely unnecessary, because consultation has already taken place? Is that correct?
Wendy Morton
Absolutely. As I am explaining, the amendments, worthy of consideration though they be, are not necessary in the light of the research I have done, and they would fundamentally change the objectives of the Bill.
The amendment to make
“provision for one trustee to be appointed by the NHS institution…for whose benefit the charitable trust exists”
is an interesting one, but again I do not believe it necessary. Under the new independent charity model there can be a “blend of trustees”, meaning there can be a link to the hospital—on the proviso that the NHS members remain in the minority. That is important. When we are seeking to move away from Secretary of State appointments to a more independence model for special charities, it is the word “independence” that is crucial. These charities are seeking to be independent of Government for fundraising and many other purposes.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend may be aware that the Public Accounts Committee recently considered a report on the sustainability of NHS trusts, many of which are in deficit. Does she agree that if they had a right to appoint a trustee, it could reinforce in the public’s mind that these charities are about back-filling money into the NHS that could or should be provided by the Government rather than being independent charities providing extra money to what is provided by the Government and the public sector?
Wendy Morton
My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. The key point of my private Member’s Bill is to enable this group of charities to achieve what they said they wanted in the consultation, which is a shift away from the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint so that they can demonstrate independence. The charity world has moved on so much since charities were first created, and the model of governance needs to change in the same way.
What makes this particularly interesting is that previous rules surrounding the appointment of individual trustees were restricted to one linked person only. In any case, I believe that the new arrangements in the Bill—not the amendments—are far better and far more beneficial because this “blend of trustees” helps further to help and enhance communications and understanding by both the charity and the trust. Surely that can only be a good thing.
If I may, as the Member in charge of the Bill, I would like to touch on amendment 9, which deals with the use of the NHS logo and was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg). I shall not make too many references to fashion. Although I could make many a link between logos—and, indeed, brands—and fashion, I shall leave Members to draw their own conclusions about the fashion, style or otherwise of my hon. Friend. To be fair, he raised the issue of the NHS logo on Second Reading, so it is only right for him to bring it forward today as an amendment for consideration. I bow, if not to his fashion sense, to the grace and eloquence of his style in speaking to his amendment today. Perhaps we could share some lessons.
The term “logo” can be defined as a symbol or other small design adopted by an organisation to identify its products, uniforms, vehicles or perhaps a company or organisation. It is often uniquely designed for ready recognition, and I think the NHS logo fits that definition. It is instantly recognisable, and the public know exactly what it is all about. However, I cannot support the amendment because I believe it is a matter best explored through the Department of Health or perhaps through the memorandum of understanding, which is part of the move to independent charity status. It should not become part of this Bill.
At risk of sounding—hopefully not appearing—more like Hook than Wendy Darling, I will bring my comments to a conclusion by simply saying that although we have explored worthwhile amendments this morning and raised some important points, I shall not support any of those amendments.
Maggie Throup
I am delighted to speak in support of this important Bill on Report and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on leading it through the complexities of the House. In the time available—I shall keep my contribution short because I realise how long it has taken us to get this far this morning—I shall speak specifically against amendment 2. If accepted, it would give the Secretary of State the power to introduce secondary legislation to re-establish his or her right to appoint trustees to NHS charities.
Charitable giving is one of the cornerstones of our society, with the Charities Aid Foundation estimating that in 2014 alone £10.6 billion was donated by the British public to a variety of good causes. Indeed, we are the home of some of the world’s greatest charitable fundraisers such as Children in Need, Comic Relief, Sport Relief, and not forgetting, of course, Live Aid.
One clear message that came out of the 2014 consultation on the governance of NHS charities was that potential donors felt put off by the perceived lack of independence of the charities from the Government. One of the Bill’s fundamental principles that seeks to rectify this perception —one that I wholeheartedly support—is the removal of the right of the Secretary of State to appoint trustees to particular NHS bodies or to appoint special trustees.
The Bill is designed to give more autonomy to NHS charities to appoint their own trustees and bring them into line with most of the rest of the charitable sector, in which that is already common practice. As well as removing the perception that the charities lack independence from Governments, such a move would enable them to adopt different legal forms specific to their needs, particularly those offering limited liability. It would remove the barriers of dual regulation under both NHS and charity legislation, which currently make it difficult for NHS charities to achieve and demonstrate true independence.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend makes excellent points about the difficulties in reaching everyone. In the consultation that created Cornwall Council, there was a major discussion to be had on, I believe, six district councils and one county council being merged into one. There was significant media coverage on, for instance, BBC “Spotlight” and BBC Radio Cornwall, but still, even after all that, some people will have said, “I didn’t know the consultation was going on,” or “I didn’t know exactly what the nature of the consultation was.”
I sat through discussions about future local government structures, including referendums on an elected mayor, during my time in the midlands. People could, I think, engage with some things—for example, planning decisions or social services decisions—but in terms of how a local charity board is structured at the local hospital, and who can make appointments, how they are structured and the process gone through to make them, I cannot see many people saying, “I want to go out to talk about that on a Tuesday night in mid-February.”
If we are having consultations, they should be meaningful. On the question of what is “appropriate”, we should be asking what the appropriate stage is of decision making for each item. As I have argued in the Chamber before, on major constitutional change—the voting system for this House, for instance, or whether we abolish, or significantly change, the other place—we would probably at least need a manifesto commitment, and without that people should be directly asked for their consent to make that change. In terms of the fundamental constitution, it should have the direct consent of the people, therefore. At the other end of the spectrum, however, none of us would argue that the things that this House deals with through secondary legislation would be appropriate subjects for public referendums.
We should ask what the appropriate process is, and in this case the appropriate level of consultation would more be along these lines: “Yes, the charities should talk to each other and, yes, they should go through the normal process to appoint trustees by speaking to their members, but they do not necessarily have to host a public meeting to discuss that.” If this amendment were passed, there would be the nonsense that these particular charities would be required to go through a public consultation, yet the vast majority of charities in this country, who are regulated under the normal method for charities, would not have to do so. I recognise the intention of my hon. Friends the Members for Erewash (Maggie Throup) and for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) in wanting people to be able to engage with the NHS and its services, but this amendment is not the right way of going about it.
On amendments 1, 3 and 2, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse), I found the level of doom and disaster that was presented as possibly affecting these particular NHS charities quite interesting. If anyone listening is thinking of becoming a trustee, they might be slightly put off from doing so when they hear all the things that could possibly happen to them as a member of the board of trustees of one of these charities. I am not at all convinced that we need special provision in this Bill for these charities, rather than the wealth of charitable legislation that we already have, including a Bill currently before this House to change that legislation.
I do not think these amendments would tackle the issues, and worst of all they still give the idea that the Secretary of State is in control of a charity. As I said on Second Reading, at the heart of this Bill is independence. It is about these charities not being seen as an arm’s length part of the Department of Health—not being seen as government by the back door.
Wendy Morton
Does my hon. Friend therefore agree that these amendments on trustees, which seek to re-establish the powers that my Bill wishes to remove, represent a regressive step, rather than the progressive step the Bill seeks to deliver?
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend is right. The whole point of the Bill is to free these charities from being, in effect, arm’s length parts of the Government. If we say, “We want to free you, but now we want to pop back in the Secretary of State having specific powers that do not apply to any other charities”, that is not a coherent argument and it would not produce coherent legislation. Hon. Members may have concerns about how charities are regulated and whether someone can go off to the Seychelles with the money, but that is a debate about the wider system of charity regulation in this country. They should not seek to put something specific into this Bill that adds another layer of bureaucracy for the charities involved, given that the whole point of the Bill is to get shot of such bureaucracy. I am not persuaded by those amendments.
Amendment 9 deals with the NHS logo. It was put forward eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), but, sadly, I will not be joining in the fashion of supporting it. I appreciate that the bodies it deals with are working closely with the NHS, but so, too, do other charities. For example, the Torbay Hospital League of Friends has its own logo and it successfully raises money for Torbay hospital. The name makes it obvious what it is linked with.
Wendy Morton
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Let me begin by thanking Members who are here today for giving up another constituency Friday to take part in the debate. Some of them were also present on Second Reading, including my hon. Friends the Members for Erewash (Maggie Throup) and for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), who is no longer in the Chamber. I also thank those who served on the Public Bill Committee, absenting themselves from the debate on Syria to be present on that day, and, again, I thank Members on both sides of the House who sponsored my Bill last summer after my name had been drawn in the ballot, allowing Peter Pan to find his Wendy—or, at least, I hope so. I thank the Department of Health for its help, and, as a new Member, I thank those in the Public Bill Office, whose patience has been admirable. I should also record my thanks to the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) for supporting the Bill; sadly, he is not present today.
I welcome my new Tinker Bell to the Dispatch Box. I feel duty bound to reassure her that I remain on my guard for ticking crocodiles, Captain Hook and, of course, those unruly Lost Boys, although they are not here at the moment.
I am, of course, delighted that my NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill—commonly known, I hope and believe, as the Peter Pan and Wendy Bill, without brackets or Etc—has safely arrived at its Third Reading. There has been no exit stage left, or right, taking it directly to Neverland; it is still en route to another place, and, I trust, to Royal Assent.
On Second Reading, we were given many examples—some based on personal experience—of the importance of NHS charities and their role in supporting hospitals, patients, parents and staff. That has been underlined by the accounts that we heard today of the tremendous work that NHS charities do, and it also demonstrates the Bill’s importance in helping those charities to continue and flourish.
As I have mentioned before, NHS charities are regulated under charity law, but they are also linked to NHS bodies and bound by NHS legislation. They are charitable trusts, established under NHS legislation, and have as their trustee an NHS body such as a foundation trust, or trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for an NHS body. It should be borne in mind that NHS charities are distinct from independent charities established solely under charity law.
Funds donated to the NHS must be held separately from Exchequer funding provided by the taxpayer. These charities exist to support their beneficiaries, and there is a special relationship between them and the trusts with which they are associated. Some wonderful examples have been given today of local hospital charities and the special relationship that they have with their local NHS trusts.
The first part of the Bill makes provision to remove the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees for NHS charities in England and makes amendments to primary legislation concerned with this. It is important to remember that this fulfils a commitment by the Government in 2014, subsequent to a DOH review and consultation on the governance of NHS charities. The outcome of the consultation was that NHS charities would be allowed to convert to independence if they chose to do so and the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS charities under the National Health Service Act 2006 would be removed at the earliest opportunity.
It is fair to say that a number of the larger NHS charities called for reform because of concerns that the NHS legislative framework limited their freedom to grow and develop their charitable activity to best support their beneficiaries and to demonstrate to potential donors a visible independence from Government. That is an important point, and some have already grasped the opportunity to become independent while others are in the process and some are planning to do so in the future.
Collectively across the country about 260 charities currently exist to receive and manage charitable funds on behalf of NHS charities. I am sure Members will be interested to know that just over £345 million was raised by these charities in the last financial year, supporting patients and staff right across the country, so we should be doing all we can to support them. They make an outstanding contribution, yet their work often goes unheralded. I hope that today’s debate helps to publicise their work and the valuable contribution they make to hospitals as well as to the lives of patients, their families and clinicians. But just as healthcare moves on, so does the charitable environment, and there is a real need to place certainty in an already complex structure. I hope, and believe, that that is what this Bill will do.
There are currently 16 NHS charities that have trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for Health, and all of them are affected by my Bill. They are bound by charity law and NHS legislation. They are unincorporated and their trustees have unlimited liability.
Maggie Throup
My hon. Friend mentions that NHS charities are bound by charity law as well as other legislation. We both sat on the Charities (Social Investment and Protection) Public Bill Committee. Can she expand on why her Bill should be a separate Bill and why its measures cannot go through as part of that Bill?
Wendy Morton
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. I also sat on the charities Bill Committee, and it comes back to the House next week, I believe. My Bill is a specific piece of legislation. It came about because of Great Ormond Street hospital and the need to move the right to the royalties. It also comes under the remit of the DOH, whereas the charities Bill is under the remit of the Minister for Civil Society and the Cabinet Office. My Bill, at its heart, goes to the fact that the original Act on the Peter Pan royalties and the extension to the signed copyright patent was unique—so that unique bit of legislation needed another unique bit of legislation.
Sixteen of the charitable trusts have chosen either to revert to a corporate trustee model or to become independent. Most hospital charities operate the corporate trustee model anyway, and we have heard a lot about that today. Many have indicated that they are seeking to make this transition and many others are also considering it.
Six charities have already completed the transition to independence. These include Barts Charity, which raises money for Barts Health NHS Trust, including St Bartholomew’s hospital. This was the first to receive an independence order. The others are Alder Hey in Liverpool, Birmingham Children’s Hospital Charity, which is close to my own constituency of Aldridge-Brownhills, Guy’s and St Thomas’ Charity, and the Royal Brompton and Harefield Hospitals Charity. They are all now able to benefit from greater independence and less bureaucracy, and that further demonstrates the benefits of the Bill. Great Ormond Street’s is one of the six to have converted to independence. I will come back to that, as well as to its unique status and the need for specific legislative change to remove the statutory obstacle currently preventing the charity from becoming fully independent. Of the remaining NHS charities, about half have agreed to convert to independence but have not yet formally informed the Department of Health, while the others are in discussion with their trustees and hospital boards.
Importantly, the Bill is supported by Great Ormond Street hospital and NHS charities more generally. It also has the support of the Association of NHS Charities, and I would like to put on the record my thanks to it for its help. Let me provide a quote from a chief executive of an NHS charity, as that is a good way of explaining why the Bill is important. This chief executive said that
“this is exactly the right move for us as it deals with a peculiar anomaly in our status. Moving to full independence will mean that we can compete on a level playing field with other health and social care charities in our fund raising and other activities. No longer being seen as part of government.”
On Report, we received some interesting amendments from hon. Members, who gave us the opportunity to explore and question a number of points in relation to the Bill. Although I am pleased they were not pressed to a vote and were not accepted, I believe each was worthy of our sincere consideration.
Turning now to the second part of the Bill, it is important to remind ourselves of the special link that Great Ormond Street hospital has with J. M. Barrie, who made a very generous bequest to it of the right of royalties to the “Peter Pan” stories. As I explained on Second Reading, J. M. Barrie bequeathed all rights to “Peter Pan” to GOSH in 1929. He died in 1937, with GOSH enjoying a further 50 years of royalties. On the eve of the copyright expiring, the J. M. Barrie bequest acquired its unique legal status as a direct result of Lord Callaghan’s amendments to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. That reserved royalty income to the hospital trust and carried the stipulation of the creation of a special trust at that time. Though now held in perpetuity by GOSH, legislation is needed to enable the receipt of royalties to move to the new, independent Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. My Bill, with its provision for amendments to the 1988 Act, will do that. It will enable GOSH to take full advantage of this move to independent status, thereby giving it greater freedom to attract additional funding. It will also reduce the burden of bureaucracy by leaving it under the sole jurisdiction of the Charity Commission.
I am sure Members will be interested to know that I have met representatives from the GOSH Children’s Charity, and, as I reported on Second Reading, I have visited the hospital to see for myself the work the charity does and the huge contribution it makes. I have also met members of staff and clinicians to hear about some of the cutting-edge research and treatments they are working on. My visit to GOSH further emphasised the importance of this Bill. One cannot go there and fail to be touched by the work that goes on there, the commitment, the dedication and the inspiration—it is truly amazing, as indeed is the work of all our NHS hospitals and charities.
As we all know, the work and influence of Great Ormond Street children’s hospital stretches way beyond Greater London, which is why so many Members are in the Chamber to support and watch the progress of this Bill. In the financial year 2014-15, the GOSH charity raised a staggering £80,981,000, an increase on the previous year’s figure.
In November, I am sure that avid newspaper readers will have noticed that The Independent and the Evening Standard launched their Gift to GOSH Christmas appeal, attracting celebrity backing as well as a pledge from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to match donations pound for pound from the Treasury with up to £1.5 million. I am fortunate enough to have an update from Great Ormond Street hospital, which tells me that to date £2.7 million has been raised as a result of that appeal. That reflects the warmth felt by the British public towards Great Ormond Street, as well as their generosity. The campaign still has not ended—it runs until 14 February—so who knows what the final total will be. Those funds are going to support things such as paediatric research and a new specialist unit for children with heart failure.
One of the most generous donors over the years has been, of course, J. M. Barrie, whose bequest of the royalties from “Peter Pan” is one of the reasons we are here today. It is amazing that even today, 79 years after the death of Barrie, the bequest is still a crucial source of income to the charity, which demonstrates that “Peter Pan” remains a firm favourite of us all. I must confess that I watched it over Christmas and, as one might expect, the book has had a permanent place on my desk for number of months. It is probably in my handbag in the Chamber today.
By supporting the Bill today, I believe that we are all doing a little bit to help the work of Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity by securing the J. M. Barrie income stream for the new independent charity. Without this Bill, it would be unable fully to complete its conversion to independent charity status. Without it, I believe that there could be risks to legacies to the charity, and I would not wish to see that happen. It also creates further complications, because operating two charities side-by-side requires a duplication of governance, separate accounts and, potentially, duplicate returns to the Charity Commission. The Bill is not just needed, it is wanted, and Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity has confirmed this. It is also supported by the chair of the hospital trust, Baroness Blackstone, who I must also thank for her support, and the charity’s chair of trustees.
To summarise my Bill, it has received support from Members on both sides of the Chamber, for which I am grateful, from Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity and from the Association of NHS Charities. It delivers on commitments that followed a Department of Health review and consultation on the governance of NHS charities, whereby charities were given the opportunity to seek greater independence under the sole regulation of the Charity Commission and the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees were no longer necessary. It paves the way for sensible housekeeping.
We listened to some interesting amendments today that enabled further scrutiny of the Bill, for which I am grateful. I hope that this Bill, which I have believed in from the outset, does not end up in Neverland but heads out of this Chamber across Central Lobby to land safely on the Red Benches of the other place to continue its passage. I commend the Bill to the House.
NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill
Wendy Morton Excerpts(10 years, 3 months ago)
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The Chair
With this it will be convenient to consider the following:
Clause 2 stand part.
That schedule 1 be the First schedule to the Bill.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship and have the benefit of your experience and guidance, Sir David. It is interesting to note that you successfully steered your own private Member’s Bill through the House and, like me, you were drawn fifth in the private Members’ ballot, which I hope is a good omen for Peter Pan and me.
My private Member’s Bill makes provision in relation to two main subjects. First, the Bill makes provision to remove the power of the Secretary of State for Health to appoint trustees to NHS bodies in England, and it makes amendments to primary legislation consequential on the removal of that power. That will fulfil a commitment made by the Government in 2014, following a consultation on the regulation of NHS charities begun in 2012. The Bill will give greater freedom to such charities for fundraising; it will reduce the burden of dual governance in the form of the Department of Health and the Charity Commission; and it will provide greater liability protection for trustees than enjoyed at present.
Secondly, the Bill makes provision to amend section 301 of and schedule 6 to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 to transfer to Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity—Great Ormond Street hospital’s new independent charity—the royalty rights to J. M. Barrie’s “Peter Pan” play. Currently, the rights are conferred on special trustees appointed by the Secretary of State under NHS legislation.
I am happy to talk the Committee through the grouped clauses for the benefit of Members if that would be beneficial.
The Minister for Community and Social Care (Alistair Burt)
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, particularly in such happy circumstances. The Government welcome the Bill as a whole, and I will perhaps say something about that in my conclusion.
The Government support the provisions in clauses 1 and 2 and schedule 1 relating to the removal of the Secretary of State’s powers under the National Health Service Act 2006 to appoint special trustees in England and to appoint trustees to certain NHS bodies in England that can hold charitable property. The removal of those powers to appoint trustees, and the supplementary and consequential provisions made in these clauses and schedule 1, will deliver on a key Government commitment made in response to the review of the regulation and governance of NHS charities in 2014. Those powers are no longer considered necessary, as the Government committed to allowing NHS charities to become independent if they so choose. Those NHS charities that do not wish to become independent will remain governed by NHS legislation, with the NHS body holding the charitable body as a corporate trustee—meaning that the board of the NHS body acts as trustee of the property.
My hon. Friend has set out the effect of these provisions and the rationale behind them, and I do not propose to detain the Committee by repeating that detail. The Government support clauses 1 and 2, and schedule 1, standing part of the Bill.
Alistair Burt
On a point of order, Sir David. May I beg the indulgence of the Committee for one moment to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills for this Bill, which will forever after be known as the “Peter Pan and Wendy Bill”?
As you quite rightly said, Sir David, because we spent some time debating the Bill on Second Reading, there was no reason to do so in Committee. However, I want to put it on record that the Bill will ensure that the rights, royalties and other remuneration in respect of “Peter Pan”, the play by J.M. Barrie, are to be conferred on the new, independent Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. Indeed, dealing with the legislative changes that have been made was one of the points of the Bill. The contribution that J.M. Barrie’s play has made to Great Ormond Street hospital over the years is, of course, well known. It has been of immense benefit and provides the hospital with an opportunity for its stories to go beyond even the extraordinary work that it does for children, to be associated forever with Peter Pan.
Making this change in legislation, as proposed by my hon. Friend, was an important thing to do. It had to be done well, properly and quickly, and it has been. It is a wonderful coincidence that her name happens to be as it is, and that we have this opportunity to pass the “Peter Pan and Wendy Bill”. I am not quite sure what role I play: that morning I was both Tinker Bell and Captain Hook—later in the morning and for other reasons—so I have learned that lesson.
The provisions of the Bill also deliver on a Government commitment made in December 2014 to Baroness Blackstone in the other place, who wished to table an amendment to the Deregulation Bill, as it was, to deliver the same result. We pay due tribute to her for all her work.
All those connected with Great Ormond Street hospital should know that the whole House supports what it does. This is a nice thing that we are able to do today, but the contribution of “Peter Pan” has been immense. Nevertheless, we are all pleased to have played a small part in the history of both the hospital and the royalties of the play, and to have set my hon. Friend on course, within her first few months of being in Parliament, to pilot her own private Member’s Bill through the House. I am grateful to the whole Committee for its attendance today, to my hon. Friend, to you, Sir David, and to all our officials.
Wendy Morton
On a point of order, Sir David. The Minister has put things very succinctly. I would like to thank you, Sir David, for your excellent chairmanship, the Clerks of the Committee and my colleagues from all sides of the House. Today is a busy day in the House, so I really appreciate their giving up their time. I know that they have done so knowing how important the Bill is and what a big difference it will make, especially to Great Ormond Street hospital. Thank you all very much.
The Chair
I know I speak for the Committee in congratulating the hon. Member on her achievement—I had to wait 18 years for that opportunity. Her place in history is assured, because the Bill will be stored in the Victoria Tower forever more.
Bill to be reported, without amendment.
NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc.) Bill
Wendy Morton Excerpts(10 years, 4 months ago)
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Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
Let me begin by thanking all the Members who are present for giving up a Friday in their constituencies to take part in what I believe will be a very important debate, and all the Members on both sides of the House who have sponsored my Bill. It was a tremendous honour, and also a surprise, for me, a new Member of Parliament, to be drawn in the ballot for private Members’ Bills the day after making my maiden speech. I am not normally drawn in a raffle, so this was something of a coup.
As many colleagues had warned me would happen, a raft of suggestions for Bills came flooding my way, on to the internet, into my inbox, and as text messages. All of a sudden I was the No. 1 favourite MP, and enjoyed a few minutes of fame. After some consideration, however, one Bill caught my eye, the one that I should like to be referred to as “the Peter Pan Bill”.
The Minister for Community and Social Care (Alistair Burt)
Peter Pan and Wendy!
Wendy Morton
Indeed. I had often wondered why my mum and dad named me Wendy, and that was obviously the reason.
Like many other people, I knew of the tremendous work of Great Ormond Street hospital. Each year, children from all over the United Kingdom, many of whom suffer from rare, complex and life-threatening conditions that cannot be treated elsewhere, go to that specialist hospital to benefit from its specialist care. Sadly, for many children Great Ormond Street is the last hope, and, although it is one of the world’s leading children’s research hospitals, for some of those conditions there are no known cures.
I was also aware of the very special link with J.M. Barrie, whose generous bequest to the hospital consisted of the royalties for commercial publications and public performances of his play “Peter Pan”. What I did not know, however, was that legislation was needed to enable the right to those royalties to be given to the new, independent Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity to which the current NHS charity is in the course of being converted. The right to the royalties is currently conferred on the special trustees for Great Ormond Street hospital who are appointed by the Secretary of State. Baroness Blackstone first raised the need to amend legislation to enable Great Ormond Street hospital to continue to benefit from the Barrie bequest during the passage, in the other place, of the Bill that became the Deregulation Act 2015, and the Government agreed to introduce legislation at the earliest opportunity. My Bill will do that by amending the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
I have to say that my warm and comforting thoughts of Great Ormond Street vanished temporarily when I read more of the briefing that had been prepared for the Bill, and discovered a proposal to remove powers from the Secretary of State for Health. I was a little concerned. Could I have been handed a Trojan rocking horse? Well, I can assure Members that if I had been, I would not be presenting the Bill today, because it also paves the way for sensible housekeeping on the part of NHS charities, the Secretary of State and his Department. As a new, eager and enthusiastic Member of Parliament, and one who wishes to see less bureaucracy, less duplication and less Government interference, I think it fair to say that the opportunity to remove some of the Secretary of State’s powers had a certain attraction.
Before I deal with the details of the Bill, let me assure you, Mr Speaker—and I hope you will not be too disappointed—that this Wendy will not be flying through the sky, or indeed the Chamber, on an adventure with a mischievous little boy called Peter Pan and a fairy named Tinker Bell, although I shall remain firmly on my guard for Captain Hook and ticking crocodiles.
Let me start with the background to the Bill, which, although it might seem technical in parts, is necessary and important. NHS charities are regulated under charity law but are also linked to NHS bodies and bound by NHS legislation. They are charitable trusts established under NHS legislation and have as their trustee an NHS body such as a foundation trust or trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for an NHS body. NHS charities are distinct from independent charities, which are established solely under charity law. As we would expect, funds donated to the NHS must be held separately from Exchequer funding provided by the taxpayer. These charities exist to support the beneficiaries and there is a special relationship between the charities and the trusts with which they are associated.
The first part of the Bill makes provision to remove the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees for NHS bodies in England and to appoint special trustees in England for specific hospitals. It also amends primary legislation in this regard. It fulfils a Government commitment made in 2014 following a 2012 Department of Health review and consultation on the governance of NHS charities. The outcome of the consultation was that NHS charities should be allowed to convert to independence should they so choose and the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees to NHS bodies under the National Health Service Act 2006 should be removed at the earliest legislative opportunity.
You may well ask why, Mr Speaker, and I can understand that question, but please let me try to explain. A number of the larger NHS charities called for reform because they were concerned that the NHS legislative framework limited their freedom to grow and develop their charitable activity to best support their beneficiaries and to demonstrate to potential donors visible independence from Government.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
I rise not as a ticking crocodile but to ask my hon. Friend to assure the House that notwithstanding the provisions in the Bill, which I support fully, the NHS and the public purse will continue to have a pair of eyes and ears around the trustee table as there will be the ability to nominate a trustee to sit on this new independent body to ensure that trustees do not, in a flight of fancy, suddenly go off to Cap Ferrat for the weekend and put everything on number six.
Wendy Morton
My hon. Friend makes a useful point. The important point is that whereas the NHS charity can benefit from this new independent model, there will always be accountability. This is not public money but money that comes from benefactors and donors, so it is right and proper that the trust instilled in the process of giving is maintained at all times.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
My hon. Friend is making a great speech in support of her Bill. Does she agree that that very independence gives beneficiaries the confidence that their money is spent as intended and that the wealth of charity law is there to ensure that funds are put to the right purpose?
Wendy Morton
My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I shall explain that a little more later, but the Bill is about creating independence while maintaining accountability. I believe that we are looking for a route to enable these charities to move forward and to be on a more level playing field with some of the big charities operating across the country. Let us not forget that this is something that they have been asking for.
Collectively, across the country, about 260 charities exist to receive and manage charitable funds on behalf of NHS bodies. I am sure that everyone in the House would agree that they do fantastic work and that many Members are aware of local hospital charities in their constituencies. My preparation for this Bill made me think back to when my sister, who was five or six at the time, spent six weeks in the local NHS hospital and my mum was able to stay near the hospital thanks to accommodation that was provided either by a “friends of” organisation or a local charity that provided that sort of sheltered accommodation. Without that, she would have had to make the long journey to and fro every day. I am sure it made a huge difference, not only to her, but to the whole family.
Hon. Members will be interested to learn that just over £345 million was raised by these charities in the past financial year, supporting patients and staff right across the country. I am sure everyone in this House would agree that they make an outstanding contribution and are deserving of our support. Members may be asking why it is necessary to legislate, and that is a perfectly good question. It is one that I have asked, and I now wish to answer it. In simple terms, the Bill is good housekeeping; it is a matter of follow through. The charitable environment has moved on and there is a need to provide certainty in an already complex world and a complex structure. The Bill seeks to remove the Secretary of State for Health’s powers to appoint trustees, so it will draw that process to a conclusion. The Bill is overdue and it makes sense.
Currently, 16 NHS charities have trustees appointed by the Secretary of State for Health and are directly affected by the Bill. They are bound by charity law and NHS legislation. They are currently unincorporated and their trustees have unlimited liability. This means that the 16 NHS charities will choose either to revert to a corporate trustee model, meaning that the board of the NHS body for which the trustees were appointed acts as trustee of the charitable funds, which is how many NHS charities already successfully operate today, or, as many of the 16 have indicated they would like to do, they can convert to become independent charities without Secretary of State-appointed trustees.
Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)
As I understand it, some NHS charities have already converted to independent status. Will my hon. Friend expand on what benefits they have gained from doing that?
Wendy Morton
I will come on to deal with some of those benefits later. Anyone would think my hon. Friend had read my speech, because the next words on it are “six charities”. I can assure you, Mr Speaker, that no one has seen it. Six charities have already completed the transition to independence. They include Barts Charity, which raises money for Barts Health NHS Trust, including St Bart’s hospital. That was the first to convert to an independent model. The others are Alder Hey in Liverpool; Birmingham Children’s Hospital Charity, which is close to my constituency; and Guy’s and St Thomas’. The Royal Brompton & Harefield Hospital Charitable Fund has also become an independent charity. They are all able to benefit from greater independence and less bureaucracy.
Kevin Foster
Why was it necessary to bring a Bill before Parliament to deal with these issues and make these changes? Why could a legislative reform order not have been used?
Wendy Morton
An LRO was mentioned to me early on when I was doing my research on the Bill, but this Bill covers two parts; one is the Great Ormond Street part and the other is about the trustees, so an LRO was not appropriate as it was not the right vehicle to enable those things to be brought together and taken through Parliament. There was a streamlining of the process, with no duplication and less bureaucracy.
The other charity to have converted to independence is Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. It has started the process of moving to independence. I have made specific reference to it because of its unique status and the need for specific legislative change, and I will come back to that point later. A further six have now notified the Department of Health of their intention to convert to the independent model. Another is in the process of reverting to a corporate trustee model, which will be completed by 1 April. Of the remaining nine, about half have agreed to independence, but have not yet formally informed the Department of Health, while the others are in discussion with their trustees and hospital boards. Clearly, many have made the decision, and many others are in the process of doing so.
Earlier in the summer, I met the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), and I have written to Members whose constituencies have an NHS body with trustees appointed by the Secretary of State, which would be affected by my Bill, to keep them fully informed. The Bill is supported by Great Ormond Street Hospital charity and NHS charities more generally. It also has the support of the Association of NHS Charities, with which I have met. Recently, I attended a forum where I spoke to some of the association members. I was reassured by their support for the Bill and by their feedback about how it would affect them in a positive way.
The parts of the Bill that would effect the change are intended to be brought into force on 1 April 2018, which gives this group of 16 hospital charities time to consider and to finalise their positions. Lines of accountability would also be simpler, as the new independent charities would be accountable to the Charity Commission, with the additional management bureaucracy no longer being needed.
I am grateful for the support of the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras, who is in his place and in whose constituency Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity is based. During the summer, I was very fortunate to go to Great Ormond Street hospital and to meet some of the charitable trusts. I met the staff and learned at first hand about the tremendous work that they do in support of the hospital, staff, patients and families. I was lucky enough to be taken on a tour of parts of the hospital; it is the most amazing place in the world. I visited the Peter Pan ward and the chapel—I do not think that there is a Wendy ward, but who knows?
Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)
If the Bill were not passed, what would be the implications for Great Ormond Street hospital?
Wendy Morton
That is a very good question. Quite simply, the charity would not be able to complete the move to independence, so the hospital would have to run two charities: one would be the independent arm; the other would be the existing one into which the royalties from “Peter Pan” would be transferred. That would mean a duplication of work, and more bureaucracy. When the charity goes out to raise funds, it needs to provide certainty to the public.
Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)
Earlier, my hon. Friend mentioned the Alder Hey Children’s Charity, which is the key leading charity in the north-west and provides the same sort of support to children. Does she agree that families feel a great sense of ownership over their local hospital, which gives them such support, and therefore they might be much more willing to fund-raise for an independent charity that was seen as physically separate from the board of the hospital or the NHS trust?
Wendy Morton
When it comes to hospitals, we all have our own personal stories on which to draw and our own personal experiences. The British public are very generous in donating to many different causes, and certainly to local hospitals. The move to independence will help to attract some of the bigger corporate donations, and enable the hospital to work and compete alongside other charities. It makes them operate more independently and less bureaucratically in today’s world, which is very different from that which existed when the trusts were first formed.
On my visit to Great Ormond Street, it was clear to me that the legacy of J.M. Barrie lives on. Where else in the world could we find a boardroom named after a fairy, Tinker Bell? No one can fail to be touched by the commitment and dedication of the staff there. Great Ormond Street hospital has been constantly evolving since opening in a Georgian townhouse in 1852. Today, it is halfway through an ambitious, 20-year redevelopment programme to rebuild two thirds of the hospital site. The charity is working to deliver new facilities appropriate to world-class paediatric care, research and education. It is the largest dedicated funder of paediatric research in the UK, and that is something of which we should all be proud.
Maggie Throup
How much does the charity raise each year? Obviously, it does fantastic work, as we have been hearing, and I wonder what the total figure is.
Wendy Morton
In a nutshell, the figure is significant, and I will come on to that shortly.
The charity funds vital support services that care for the child and often the whole family: financial advice, parental accommodation, as well as spiritual support and helping families to stay together and manage their lives during what can be very difficult and trying times.
The Great Ormond Street hospital charity has a large number of donors, individual companies and, I am told, celebrities who support their work. On fundraising, Members will be interested to know that the charity raised £80,981,000 in the financial year 2014-15—an increase on the previous financial year—so the figure is indeed significant.
One of the most generous donors in its history is, of course, J.M. Barrie. As the Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity is keen to take advantage of the opportunity to move to independent status, specific legislation is required to provide for the rights to the “Peter Pan” royalties to be given to the new charity. The idea of royalties being paid to a charity is not unusual in itself. As we approach the run-up to Christmas, I am reminded of songs recorded for charity where royalties go into charitable trusts, but the relationship between Great Ormond Street hospital and “Peter Pan” is different. It is already a unique situation, and a unique solution is required to enable the rights to the crucial royalties to be given to the Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity, so that Great Ormond Street hospital can continue to benefit from the generous J.M. Barrie bequest.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend is being incredibly generous with her time in allowing interventions. Will she clarify something? Does Great Ormond Street receive royalties from only the original book featuring Peter Pan and Wendy, or does it receive them from subsequent publications and performances?
Wendy Morton
The charity continues to receive royalties. In fact, there are many productions of “Peter Pan” around the country in the run-up to Christmas, and the charity continues to receive royalties or agreed donations when such productions are performed. We must ensure that the charity continues to get those royalties, which makes the Bill even more important.
J.M. Barrie donated all rights in “Peter Pan” to Great Ormond Street hospital in 1929. He died in 1937, but the hospital enjoyed a further 50 years of royalties. On the eve of the copyright expiring, the J.M. Barrie bequest acquired its unique legal status, as a direct result of Lord Callaghan’s amendments to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, which ensured that, despite the copyright in the work expiring on 31 December 1987, the special trustees for Great Ormond Street hospital would have the rights to royalties in respect of all commercial publications or public performances of “Peter Pan” and would hold them on trust for the purposes of Great Ormond Street hospital. The relevant provisions are found in section 301 of and schedule 6 to that Act.
The royalties are now held in perpetuity, so J.M. Barrie’s generous gift will continue to benefit very sick children and their families for as long as the hospital exists. My Bill seeks to support the continued legacy of this great children’s author from Kirriemuir in Scotland. I do not know whether any Member present in the House today has heritage or roots in Scotland, but there is certainly a link back to north of the border.
Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
I am very supportive of the Bill. Does my hon. Friend think that the move by hospital charities to more independent status without Government appointment makes it more likely that other significant authors of children’s books will see value in such bequests? She will know that there is a Scottish author who has made hundreds of millions of pounds from children’s books and may be more likely to bequeath some of her royalties to charities. The measure might make influential authors such as Julia Donaldson—I understand that £1 in every £5 spent on children’s books in the UK is spent on a Julia Donaldson book—generous towards hospital charities in the way that J. M. Barrie was.
Wendy Morton
Let us hope so. Many artists and authors around the country have preferred charities to which they donate and give their royalties, but by highlighting the work of J. M. Barrie and Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital Charity the measure may, fingers crossed, lead to more of them doing so.
The Minister for Community and Social Care (Alistair Burt)
Before we leave the Scottish dimension, may I say that my granny was born in Angus, fairly close to where J. M. Barrie comes from?
Mr Speaker
Order. We are learning quite a lot about Members’ family circumstances, and it is very illuminating.
Simon Hoare
Has my hon. Friend noticed the relief among Opposition Members that there is no one of Scottish heritage in the Chamber?
Wendy Morton
I have not, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend.
I have introduced the Bill to deal with the importance of legacy. This very special gift to Great Ormond Street hospital of the rights to “Peter Pan” royalties is currently conferred on the special trustees appointed by the Secretary of State to the hospital. Those trustees, as I have mentioned, wished to take advantage of the Government policy allowing NHS charities to move to independent status, and have partly completed their conversion to the charitable company known as Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity, which will enable them to take advantage of the benefits of independence. However, the conversion will be fully completed only if the rights to the royalties to “Peter Pan” are conferred on the charity, in the special trustees, ensuring that the royalties continue to be used for the benefit of Great Ormond Street hospital.
As I explained at the beginning of my speech, my private Member’s Bill was introduced following a Department of Health review and consultation on the governance of NHS Charities. The decision to move to independent status or revert to the corporate trustee model is entirely for each charity to make. All of the 16 charities to which I have referred have either made the decision or have indicated that they will do so, which shows the support for the measure. The move to independence will provide greater freedom to attract additional funding, reduce bureaucracy by leaving the charities under the sole authority of the Charity Commission, and give greater liability protection for trustees.
It is also worth recognising that NHS charities simply would not be able to achieve as much as they do without the massive contribution of trustees. This week, as I am sure you are aware, Mr Speaker, is trustees week, so it is only right and proper that we recognise and pay tribute to the valuable contribution that trustees make up and down the country.
I shall now sum up my private Member’s Bill. Fundamentally, the NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill seeks to support the work of NHS charities. First, and very specifically, it makes provision to confer the rights to the “Peter Pan” royalties on the new Great Ormond Street Hospital Children’s Charity. That will enable it to take full advantage of the move to independent status, providing greater freedom to attract additional funding and reduce bureaucracy, by leaving it under the sole authority of the Charity Commission.
By repealing the powers of the Secretary of State for Health to appoint trustees to NHS bodies in England and to appoint special trustees in England, the Bill draws to a conclusion the transition process for NHS charities, which are expected to move either to an independent model or to a corporate model. It creates certainty and clarity within the existing complex bureaucratic structure. It provides greater freedoms to attract additional funding and gives trustees much greater protection from liability.
During the summer and in recent weeks I have spoken to many people about my Bill and I am very reassured by the support it has received, including from Great Ormond Street hospital and other NHS charities. I feel confident that Members in all parts of the House recognise that this Bill is worthy of a Second Reading.
I have had the opportunity to indulge in a journey back to my childhood. While some Members here today may have been watching the latest Bond movie, I have been catching up with Disney’s Peter Pan and my reading on the train has been J.M. Barrie. On this occasion no one at home has been able to complain.
“Peter Pan” is a well-loved fairy tale, but this Bill is for real. It is a piece of legislation which I trust I have explained to Members, and which is wanted by NHS charities and is necessary. This Bill is worthy of a safe passage. I do not want it to be the Never Bird, to fly out of the window, turn second star to the right and straight on to morning, ending up in Never Land, where the lost boys play and crocodiles tick. I commend the Bill to the House.
Simon Hoare
The hon. Gentleman has invited me to stray from the immediate purport of the Bill. Let me avail myself briefly of that invitation, and agree with him wholeheartedly. The people who wander up and down our streets waylaying busy shoppers, business men and women and commuters trying to elicit bank details and donations, and those who worry and harass people in their homes with telephone calls seeking charitable donations, are a curse and a menace. I believe that the authorities and Her Majesty’s Government are alert to that, and I rather hope that during the course of this Parliament we shall see some redress in respect of an issue that blights the lives of many of our constituents. My hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills may wish to clarify the position, but I am not aware that Great Ormond Street raises funds in that way, although I do not think that the issue is crucial to the Bill.
Wendy Morton
The Bill is purely about 16 NHS charities and their move to independence, and about Great Ormond Street. I am straying a little here, but I think that there may be issues relating to other charities that come to light occasionally. My Bill, however, is purely about the NHS charities, which are a very specific and, in my view, a very special group.
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Charities depend on the money and time donated. That might mean time donated to raise funds for the charity or, as she mentions, for other work. Everyone can take part, rich or poor. An hour donated is an hour donated. As she will know, Torbay hospital’s cafeteria is staffed by volunteers. It not only raises money for the charity in the hospital but provides a service. People might have come in and heard not great news, or they might be anxious and stressed with a relative in hospital, and they get a valuable pastoral service over a cup of tea and a cake from volunteers who, in some cases, have been involved for many years. They provide an excellent service.
Today, we are naturally talking about the structures and finances of a charity. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) said, we should ensure that the money cannot go on Lucky Lad in the 3.10, but we should also not forget that volunteers are at the heart of charities and how they operate and work. If the charities are truly independent, that will only enhance their ability to attract volunteers, get donations and make a difference.
Wendy Morton
Does my hon. Friend agree that, under this new model, charities will be able to bring in a new blend of skills and expertise, enabling them to increase capacity and build on their strengths?
Kevin Foster
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In my constituency, for example, we have many people over the age of 60 who have retired from professional careers. They reach the point in life where they wish to retire from full-time work, but they still have skills and abilities that they want to offer, and might be thinking about a social rather than a financial reward. Having more flexibility in the charities’ structures means that they can bring in more of those people. People who might be slightly reticent about being appointed by the Secretary of State, perhaps because of their previous job, might be delighted to be involved in an independent charity that is committed solely to its objects.
Mr Rees-Mogg
I am extremely grateful for that intervention, because that is exactly the point. It is one of those occasions where rigour really helps. If donors feel that their money will be used properly, they are more willing to give. It is fascinating how charity law has developed in this direction in recent years. Historically, if people gave money to charities, they gave it to the charity for its general purposes. Then they discovered that the general purposes of charities included all sorts of jolly things, such as lunch at the Ritz, so increasingly they have given money for limited purposes, and the funds can then only be spent on those purposes, even within a single charity. For example, if people viewing this debate wish to make donations for the renewal and restoration of this Palace, that money could only be spent on the renewal and restoration of this Palace; it could not be used for other purposes. Charity law has gone that way because it encourages people to give, as they have confidence in how the money will be spent. That is crucial for NHS charities, because there is this large pool of Government money, but it is never quite enough. We hear of deficits, and hospitals and doctors wanting more money, and all of that is a constant pressure on the health service.
Wendy Morton
The reason behind the Bill and for removing the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees stems from a consultation with the charities. The move to independence is something that the charities want, and it is a key part of the Bill. We are recognising that donations must be kept entirely separate from the money that comes from the Exchequer, and that it is also accounted for separately.
Mr Rees-Mogg
My hon. Friend really is a truly radical parliamentarian in the train of her predecessor, because she has been involved in a consultation that has actually listened to what people have said. This is a very dangerous precedent, and I cannot believe that the Government ever do anything of that kind. They always wait for the answer that they hoped for in the beginning. What a brilliant thing she has done, and I entirely agree with the point she makes, but it makes so much sense to reinforce the independence of charities and to ring-fence the money, because there are inevitable, inexorable pressures on NHS budgets. If there is a couple of million pounds sitting around at the end of the year and a waiting list and the hospital could do with a bit of cash, it could easily try to claw in the money. That is why ring-fencing and independence are so important to ensure that it is put beyond doubt that charities will do what they have been set up to do. That reassures people and will make them more generous.
I wish to raise one point with the Minister, however, that comes from a constituency experience. It relates to the independent charities using the trademark of the national health service. A constituent of mine runs a charity that has put defibrillators across the country, and he has done so in co-ordination with the NHS. The numbers needed to open the boxes are given out when people dial 999. The charity is supported by ambulance trusts, which have said that they want their logo put on the boxes. Now, some random bureaucratic body in the NHS protects its logo, and it has decided in its wisdom that the charity must spend some money removing all the NHS logos from a system backed by the NHS, operated with the NHS, but not formally part of the NHS. That seems to me the worst type of bureaucratic folderol imaginable. It is a stubborn refusal to allow something sensible to happen for no good reason other than that a rule must be rigorously enforced. The whole purpose of the boxes is to support the NHS, to make its job easier, and no one can open the box without having got in touch with the emergency services in the first place, and, as I say, the ambulance trusts want this to happen.
It concerns me that, if the charities are made formally independent, that same bureaucracy will be jumping up and down in a few weeks’ time and saying, “Well, you’re now an independent charity, so you can’t use the NHS logo because it will damage the NHS brand.” That is a perfectly ridiculous point of view to take. I could not have less sympathy for how that body is approaching the issue, rather than using the good common sense that is another Tory value and principle and allowing something that benefits everyone to happen. I hope that that will not be a problem emerging from the Bill. Perhaps an amendment can be inserted in Committee to say specifically that charities linked with the NHS are entitled to use NHS logos and trademarks. I hope that the Minister will look sympathetically on what I am saying about the charity in my constituency that is doing something really wonderful—it is saving hundreds of lives—but some petty bureaucrat is getting in the way. So I hope that an additional benefit will come from the Bill.
I have been saving up talking about J.M. Barrie and “Peter Pan” because I remember when the Bill—introduced by the late Lord Callaghan, a former Prime Minister—was passed in 1988 to extend the copyright on “Peter Pan” indefinitely, and I do so because I remember the late Lord Charteris starting a speech by pointing out that Captain Hook was an old Etonian. Lord Charteris was then the provost of Eton, and that was therefore immediately relevant and of interest to him, but it is also of interest to me because it has to be said that there are all sorts of old Etonians. There are the great and the good: the greatest figures in the land—our Prime Minister is an old Etonian, and he is one of the good lot—but we have at the other end the rogues’ gallery of old Etonians, where Captain Hook stands proud, along with people like Lord Lucan. Hon. Members know exactly what I mean. Captain Hook is there in that role to frighten the children, to keep them well behaved, just as Bonaparte was used in earlier times to frighten badly behaved children. I am rather proud of the fact that an old Etonian fills that role. It rebalances the scales so that we do not mislead people into thinking that all old Etonians are wonderful fellows. One or two of them are in the rogues’ gallery, but there is a balance: only in the past week, the new James Bond film has come out, and James Bond is, of course, another old Etonian. We have some good historical characters, as well as some villains, who are there to remind people that Eton is a serious school that produces people who will take all sorts of different sides in various cases.
What is happening with “Peter Pan” and Great Ormond Street hospital is a great combination of good sense and generosity. J.M. Barrie’s generosity was remarkable. He left his royalties to various people. He left them to Great Ormond Street hospital. He left some to Westminster school, and, where I must declare an interest, he left some to the Garrick club. Since the “Winnie-the-Pooh” money came into the Garrick club, the wine list has improved very considerably. So we all have a lot to be grateful to J.M. Barrie for, either directly or indirectly.
Alistair Burt
It is about exactly that. In a world of never-ending resources, there would be no need to look for charitable funding. As I have said, charitable funding covers not just finance but the instinct to give and support. Even if it was not about finance, plenty of people are able to support their local communities and local hospitals, not because they contribute financially, but because they give their time. Leagues of friends and others are perfect examples of that instinct.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) spoke characteristically succinctly about charities making a real difference in his hospital and health community. My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) made a vigorous defence of the private Member’s Bill as an example of Conservative principles and values. I am not sure whether he wanted to convey that a vigorous defence of fundamental Conservative principles is best and appropriately summed up in a Bill about Peter Pan and Neverland. Perhaps he recognised that those principles are reflected in the fact that the most successful example of the genre is everlastingly popular. I am sure that is exactly what my hon. Friend meant to convey.
Members can imagine my shock at my hon. Friend’s suggestion that an anonymised, bureaucratic element in the NHS might be pursuing a seemingly puzzling and unnecessary course of action to add to bureaucratic difficulties. Although I do not necessarily recognise the exact unit of which he speaks, I will look into his concerns, just in case it can be identified.
My hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach) spoke of the contribution of Alder Hey hospital, which was also welcomed and supported by the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth). My hon. Friend spoke of the new hospital and the charity work being done there. I am sure that most Members present would wish to recognise her contribution to a debate earlier this week in very different circumstances. She was immensely brave and her remarks will no doubt lead to much good. In today’s debate, she pointed out that charities can make a contribution to the running of even the best known hospitals.
Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), who had a personal reason for her particular interest in the Bill, referred to this country’s extraordinary pioneering work in medicine. That was exemplified by the news just this morning of genetic editing and the happy outcome for one little girl in particular. That reminds us of this country’s extraordinary reputation in medicine and medical research, and of the work of medical academics and all other health professionals. Every day we are appreciative of everything they have done for and contributed to this country’s reputation.
Wendy Morton
My Bill focuses on the 16 charities that are either moving to independence or reverting to corporate trustee status. The number fluctuates a little, but there are at least 260 NHS charities. During this debate, we have heard fantastic examples of the work being done right across the country. Although we are focusing on the 16, the model of independence is available to other corporate NHS charities. Highlighting the work they all do is a great way for us as parliamentarians to learn from the wealth of experience out there.
Alistair Burt
My hon. Friend neatly sums up her Bill, which I will now address, and reminds us of the work of so many different trusts.
Before I finish my tributes, may I briefly mention the work of the Bedford Hospitals Charity and Brian Woodrow in my constituency? They have made an immense contribution to my constituents and those around Bedfordshire, not least through the Primrose appeal and the magnificent Macmillan cancer treatment centre that resulted from it.
Although I intend to go into the technical details of the Bill, because that is important, I also want to speak in the following debate. I do not want to take an unreasonable amount of time, but I hope the House will appreciate that there are things I must cover.
I am delighted we have the opportunity to debate and discuss NHS charities, which provide support to our health system that is crucial to the delivery of better care for patients. Thanks to the generosity of the people of this country, NHS charities have been able to deliver valuable enhancements to the wellbeing and experience of patients and staff for many decades. I hope that today’s debate has helped to publicise the valuable work the charities do, and that it will encourage more people to give them their support.
This Government have listened to NHS charities and delivered the opportunity for those that wish to have greater independence in order to evolve and grow to meet the needs of their beneficiaries. A number of charities have seized the opportunity to become independent, with others planning to do so in the near future.
The Bill puts the last pieces of the jigsaw in place to deliver the vision the Government set out in 2014. When the previous Government came to office in 2010, a number of NHS charities and their representative bodies and interest groups were calling for reform. They were concerned about the NHS framework and inflexibility. The Government were also committed to deregulation, promoting localism and the big society, and freeing the NHS from central Government controls.
Following a review in 2011, the Government consulted in 2012 on options for changes to the regulation and governance of NHS charities. The fundamental aim of the proposals was to review the legislative powers relating to the governance of NHS charities, to preserve and extend their independence from central Government.
In their 2014 response to the consultation, the Government noted that the majority of respondents supported the principle of the proposals for the transition of NHS charities to independent charity status. They concluded that it would be appropriate to allow those NHS charities that wish to do so to convert to become an independent charity.
Wendy Morton
I assure hon. Members that my remarks will be brief, and I thank everyone who has contributed to today’s debate. We have heard many moving stories, personal and family experiences, and many examples of the valuable work that hospital charities and leagues of friends are doing up and down the country. I thank Mr Speaker, who was in the Chair at the beginning of the debate, as well as you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the other Deputy Speaker, for the generous guidance provided to me. I am a new Member of Parliament and this is my first private Member’s Bill, but I appreciate that many Members are never drawn in the Ballot. It happened to me early in my career in this place, and it has been a terrific opportunity and a privilege to promote this Bill. I hope that Members will support it, and I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63).
Access to Medical Treatments (Innovation) Bill
Wendy Morton Excerpts(10 years, 5 months ago)
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Chris Heaton-Harris
I would like to think I am making the point that although we all recognise that we need to encourage innovation in the NHS, and there is tons of it going on, it is not captured in a way that is easily spread throughout the NHS. All the royal colleges I am citing, which do not like parts of this Bill, do accept the concept of spreading innovation, which is something I am trying to do through this Bill.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has said that
“a register that is available to other doctors would allow sharing of knowledge about a potential innovation and this would be beneficial.”
The Royal College of Physicians add to the list, by stating:
“Innovation relies on a culture of knowledge sharing and a collaborative environment that stimulates ongoing improvement.”
The concept of innovation being spread is welcome throughout the medical community, and I hope to capture it in this Bill. A way of encouraging and recording innovation, and spreading knowledge about it throughout medicine, is widely recognised by most of the royal colleges as being a solidly good thing.
That is also recognised by individual doctors, patients and families. It seems that most people know and understand that there is a need for a culture change in knowledge-sharing and the reporting of success and failure. In researching for my Bill, I was told a story by a dad named Alex Smith, and it is as follows:
“Four years ago, my wife Donna and I were told by a paediatrician to take our son Harrison, who had been diagnosed with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, home, love him, give him a good life, there’s nothing we can do, he’s going to die.
How is it possible that our specialist doctors and GPs were, AND STILL to this day are, not willing to try something to help save our son’s life?...every day something we all take for granted as simple as opening a jar is taken away from him, in the last month alone his ability to get off the floor unaided has almost left him and one day in the not-too-distant future his ability to breathe and his heart to beat will be taken away and we will lose him, way, way too soon.”
Mr Smith believes:
“With a robust framework to allow our doctors to innovate safely and responsibly and share that data, the chance to save this generation could become a reality.”
It therefore should come as no surprise that an idea that has been called for by so many worthy and excellent minds, including people such as Alex, Donna and Harrison, who are facing such horrendously difficult times, should be taken up by a legislator, especially given that for decades this simply has not happened.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
I am no clinician, but I am a patient, like many of us here. In today’s world, where we so often go on the internet to search for solutions, would it not make sense that when clinicians and the medical profession are seeking innovation, we do all we can not only to encourage them, but to share it, so that others in the medical profession have access to that information? That must, however, be done safely and in the correct manner.
Chris Heaton-Harris
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The only surprise is that such a database of innovation does not already exist. Like generations of previous politicians, I therefore now rise to claim as my own a fantastic idea, which so many cleverer minds than mine have conceived. Thus, the first half of my Bill seeks to confer a power on the Secretary of State for Health to create a database of medically innovative treatments. I strongly believe that the creation of such a database will help to share ideas and spread good practice.