Greater Manchester Spatial Framework

Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Lisa Nandy

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I accept that. We need to look not just within but outside Greater Manchester. Many hon. Members have mentioned the removal of the green belt. In my constituency, green belt status has been removed around junctions 25 and 26 of the M6. As we have heard, removing green belt status requires exceptional circumstances. In 2013, the independent inspector deemed that the local authority’s request to remove half the area it is now proposing to remove around junction 25 was not exceptional, so it was refused, yet a mere three years later, the M6 South of Wigan Action Group, which did sterling work with me in opposing the plan, is in exactly the same position as it was. We are again opposing the plan together.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

A week ago, my hon. Friend and I held a meeting in Kitt Green in my constituency, which borders hers. The sight of hundreds of people queuing on a dark, cold night to get into a church hall to make their views heard was deeply moving. Does my hon. Friend agree that the strength of feeling expressed in that hall simply cannot be ignored by local authorities and the Minister?

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I agree. I am moving quickly on to junction 26. I ask the Minister: how can we be in the same positon three years on? What weight will be given to the inspector’s decisions throughout this process?

Let me move on to the infrastructure. Junction 25 is a one-way junction. In the plan for transport, there is an aspiration to have a two-way junction, but it is said that it could take 40 years. Until then, there will be thousands more HGV movements on already gridlocked roads in an area that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) said, already fails air quality standards. That does not appear to meet any definition of sustainable development. It does not increase the attractiveness of the area, and it certainly does not improve the air quality. Equally, as my hon. Friend mentioned, the land at junction 26—the Bell—has infrastructure issues. It is accepted that development will be difficult unless there are major upgrades to the road system, including a new slip road. I think the phrase “cart before the horse” was used at the public meeting that we called, which attracted nearly 200 residents.

Let me move on to how those residents can make their voices heard by the leaders of their local authorities. Usually, it is via their councillors and in discussion at council meetings. However, there is some doubt about whether these plans need to be approved by local councils, whether they should be taken at cabinet level at each local authority, or whether it is solely the prerogative of the leader of each local authority to approve the plans at a meeting of the combined authorities. Can the Minister clarify that? How does a local councillor, elected by their constituents, stand up and represent their views if they are denied a forum in which to speak? Is there not a democratic deficit in that?

No one is against jobs and growth, but the plans have to demonstrate that the growth is sustainable. As for the warehousing development in my area, this is an area with a net loss of graduates and people who need high-quality jobs. We need the right jobs in the right place. We have to balance quality of life and the attractiveness of the environment.

I will bowlderise an Ogden Nash poem—I am going back to my youth—to express what I feel about this: I think that I will never see a warehouse attractive as a tree. The green belt gives us green fields, trees, relief from urban sprawl and better air quality. It is the green lung of our urban areas. It increases the attractiveness of an area, which encourages people to come to it. An ambitious plan for Greater Manchester, which will be seen as a trailblazer on this issue, should not take the easy option and reduce green-belt land. It should look for innovative and exciting ways of promoting the use of brownfield sites to improve the environment for those coming into the borough and for those who already live there.

Youth Service Provision

Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Lisa Nandy

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) on securing the debate and on his opening speech. He is right to situate what has happened to youth services in the context of what has happened to support for and the focus on young people over the past few years. Support has collapsed in some areas where it is most needed. He mentioned the education maintenance allowance and the careers service among other things. The speeches and interventions made by my hon. Friends show how strongly Labour feels about youth services and demonstrate our commitment to ensuring that all young people have access to a high-quality, open-access and appropriately funded youth service.

We believe that it is important to set that benchmark because of what we have seen happening in recent years, with huge pressures being placed on local authority budgets, but we are not prescriptive about how it should be delivered locally, or what it should look like. However, where we are clear and where we perhaps differ from this Government—unless the Minister is going to say something very exciting in his closing speech—is in our belief the Government have a clear role in ensuring that that offer to young people is made clear to local government and is delivered in every community around the country. I agreed with much of what the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) said. The difficulty is that what we have seen over the years is that some local authorities absolutely get this issue and understand it, but not all. The key question for national Government is what to do when that commitment is not being delivered in some local areas where people simply do not get it.

My own local authority, Wigan, has had real challenges with this. We have had the third worst budget cuts in the entire country, but the fact that there are three MPs in Westminster Hall today who represent parts of that borough—my hon. Friends the Members for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) and for Bolton West (Julie Hilling), and myself—shows that there is a strong commitment from us as elected politicians to try to protect those services.

One of the exciting things that has happened in Wigan in the past few years is the youth zone that we have managed to set up. It is an example of some of the things that Members have talked about today. It is a way of doing things differently, because it is a partnership between the OnSide charity, the local authority, local entrepreneurs and businesses, the community, and, most important of course, young people themselves, who have been involved from the outset in campaigning for this service, designing it and now running it, as well as using it. It is not the beginning and end of the whole story in terms of the youth services that we need in our borough, but it is a real achievement at a time when the local authority budget in particular and the community are under such strain.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend join me in welcoming the free bus service that runs from my area, which is an outlying area of the borough? The authorities recognised that young people from the outlying areas of the borough were not using that service, and they have done something immediately to try to solve that problem.

[Lisa Nandy]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight that, and it is one of the reasons why I congratulated my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North for situating this debate in the wider context of what is happening to young people. Transport costs are the key thing that young people always raise with me and, I am sure, many other Members, and it is important that we think about that when we consider services for young people.

There are some other startling examples of local authorities doing something really exciting. The hon. Member for Brigg and Goole is right to acknowledge the impact that the cuts have had but also to say that this is not just about funding. For example, I think that many Members will be aware of a project in Lambeth that I have heard about and seen for myself. Lambeth took the huge amounts that it was spending on young people through various budgets and put it into a trust, which anyone in the community over the age of 12 could join. It was weighted towards young people, so that they retained control, and it gave the community the power to take real decisions about how services were commissioned and delivered and what they looked like. My understanding is that that project has been a remarkable success. It points to a key feature of successful youth services; the most successful ones are those that involve young people in commissioning, designing and delivering them, where possible.

However, we know from our experience of looking at youth services that what works in Lambeth does not necessarily work in Liverpool. That is why I have said that there needs to be a clear minimum offer from this Government. Labour is clearly committed to that, but not to prescription about on how it should be delivered. Labour Members have previously said that we are open to strengthening the statutory duty to provide youth services, and I have listened carefully to the contributions by hon. Members on that point, but I think we must recognise that, on its own, a statutory duty is not enough. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West said, we already have a statutory duty, limited though it is, and it is not being fulfilled around the country. Labour is very attracted by the possibility of introducing a duty to ensure that young people are involved from the outset in designing and commissioning youth services, and we wonder whether the Minister might share that aspiration; if he does, perhaps he will say something about it today.

There is also a clear need to ensure that young people can hold the people who make these decisions to account. That is one of the reasons why Labour is committed to introducing votes at 16. I hope that the Minister will listen to that argument and consider carefully how young people can hold their elected politicians to account for their decisions if they do not have the vote.

I should also mention briefly concerns about the work force. I want to be fair to the Minister, so I will say that some of the problems in the youth service work force predate the coalition. In 2008, a survey by the National Youth Agency found that a third of councils were not investing at all in the professional development of youth workers. That was really worrying then, but I dread to think what the figure is now, several years after the huge cuts that we have had. Can the Minister tell us? There is a real risk that we will run down the quality of our services and then turn around and say to young people that those services are not worth saving in any case.

There is no question that the last four years have been absolutely horrendous for this sector, and I do not want to lose sight of that. We have lost good, skilled staff, and many more are under significant strain, dealing with low pay, job insecurity and the prospect of redundancies. This really matters, because as my hon. Friends the Members for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) and for Stockton North said, behind the loss of all those youth workers—2,000 of them during the last few years—is a story of broken relationships. I once worked with a young person who had grown up in and out of care. He was 18 when I first came across him and he told me that the only consistent adult in his life since he was 11 had been his youth worker. When we lose good, skilled staff, we break that link and that bond, and the damage is irreparable.

Regarding the National Citizen Service, I say to the Minister that although I support many of the things that my hon. Friends have said, and I myself have also had a parmo with some of the young people from Redcar who have taken part in NCS, it is no substitute for long-term, ongoing youth services provided all year round. It is a short-term intervention and it is very expensive. If we come to power in May next year, we are not planning to make the same mistake that this Government did with the v scheme, and simply tear something up because another party has established it, but we are very concerned about the cost of NCS. My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North drew a parallel between the amount of money that the German Federal Government spend on year-round youth work and the money that this Government spend on short-term interventions.

The other thing to say is that young people spend 85% of their time out of school, yet each year local authorities spend 55 times more on formal education than they do on providing services for young people outside the school day. We need to get a bit of a grip on this, because when this Government agreed to protect ring-fencing for school funding they did not do the same for additional activities. They abolished ring-fenced grants for—

Library Services

Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Lisa Nandy

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Westminster Hall

[Lisa Nandy]

I am delighted to learn that, if not surprised. I am sure that the people of Bromborough are extremely well read and passionate about reading. I certainly do not want to say otherwise.

User satisfaction with libraries in my constituency stands at an all-time high of 91%. That shows that libraries can be an enormous success and that they can go from strength to strength.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. In the borough of Wigan, which I also represent, there have been concerted campaigns, such as Bookstart, to encourage people to use libraries. People are already taking ownership of their libraries. When the residents of Ashton heard that their library was under threat, they almost immediately set up an online petition to prevent it from being taken away.

[Lisa Nandy]

I am aware of the campaign that my hon. Friend has mentioned, and she is a passionate supporter of it.

I gave the example of my Wigan borough, because it shows that libraries can continue to improve and to be relevant, but they need investment. In researching this debate, I was pleased to see that web hits on libraries nationally are up by 4%, which shows that libraries are starting to adapt to changing usage and that they can be a success. I say to the Minister that library usage is undeniably changing, so by all means let us debate the future and the improvement of such services, but let us not pretend that libraries can be run on thin air and that this Government are presiding over anything other than the unravelling of one of the great steps forward in civilised society.

I have heard a great deal of talk about volunteers, and the hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) has asked me about them. Coming from the charity sector, I am well aware of the value of volunteers, but we cannot run a service on volunteers alone. We need infrastructure and paid staff. To suggest that volunteers can take the place of skilled librarians is an insult and not something with which I want to be associated.