Money Transfer Accounts and Remittance Sector

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) on securing this important debate. I listened carefully to him and to all other hon. Members who spoke. They set out a well-argued case and made their points well.

Remittances play a vital role in supporting the people and economies of countries throughout the world. As we have heard, they are a financial lifeline for the families of Somalis, Pakistanis, Poles and other diaspora groups that are living here in the UK. A healthy and functioning remittance sector is crucial for thousands of our constituents up and down the country. We heard from the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) about her personal experience, and she referred to comments that I have made about my own personal experience. My parents came to this country from Pakistan. They have many loved ones still living there who rely on remittances. I have seen what it is like if sometimes those remittances are missed or not received—it can make a real difference to day-to-day living standards—so I am grateful to Members who have shared personal stories, or told stories on behalf of their constituents, and their contributions show just how important a topic this is.

The UK is a global leader in the fight against money laundering and terrorist financing. Our banks and regulators have a vital responsibility to ensure that there is not inadvertent financing of criminal activities that could pose real risks to British citizens, as well as to national and international security. The Government are proud of our international role on this issue—we are setting the agenda. The Prime Minister received wide international recognition for his role in driving forward that agenda during our presidency of the G8 last year.

The right approach to tackling money laundering and terrorist financing should support a healthy and growing money transfer sector, rather than stifling legitimate money flows or financially excluding honest customers. I assure hon. Members again that the Government are committed to achieving that approach, and I shall set out the steps that we are continuing to take as we work closely with the private sector to facilitate a sustainable, market-based solution to what I accept is a real challenge.

The context for the debate is the trend in recent years for banks in many countries to withdraw accounts from money service businesses in response to perceived risks, and to reputational and regulatory concerns. That is important, because access to banking facilities makes remittances quick and transparent, and keeps costs low. We need to be clear that neither the Government nor regulators can compel banks to offer an account to any customer. Such a decision taken by a bank is private and commercial, and in accordance with their risk appetite and compliance with legal and regulatory requirements. The Government cannot intervene in banks’ day-to-day decisions. I was asked about the publicly owned banks in the UK, and the same applies to them: the Government cannot intervene in their commercial decisions or prevent—

[Rushanara Ali]

The question is about not the Government forcing banks to act in a certain way, but whether discussions have taken place to encourage banks to look at a solution so that they can play an active role. In the session that the Minister hosted last year, the chief executive of one bank was receptive to such dialogue. It is about working with them to find out whether there is a way forward, rather than telling them what to do. Some more enlightened individuals—board members—in the banking sector are worried about the impact of this situation and the damage it does to their banks’ reputations, and they are keen to explore this issue.

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Lady makes a good point. Banks should be concerned about the reputational impact that could arise as a result of their decisions. I confirm that the Treasury, the British Bankers Association and other representatives of the banking industry have discussed the issue. We are engaged with all banks, including state-owned banks. I stress that what a bank does, or does not do, is ultimately a commercial decision for it to take.

[Stephen Doughty]

I say gently that the idea that the Government do not get involved in directly suggesting what banks do and do not offer is a little bit away from the point. For example, the Government work closely with banks, through Help to Buy and other schemes, on what commercial products they offer and how they provide them to serve the public. I wonder, perhaps philosophically, why this matter is being treated slightly differently.

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the state-owned banks came about by accident rather than design, and the Government’s overriding purpose now is to return those banks to the private sector, with the best interests of shareholders paramount. With regard to Government involvement in the banking sector, he mentioned the Help to Buy scheme. That is a good example of a scheme that is designed to work through incentives. No bank is compelled to take part in that scheme or similar ones, such as the funding for lending scheme, which work through incentives. It is important to consider what the Government can do to make it easier for banks to stay in the MSB sector or to get more active in it. That is the right area to explore to help our constituents.

The Government cannot prevent UK banks from facing supervisory and enforcement action from other jurisdictions. Hon. Members know that this is not just about rules in the UK, because European Union rules, and especially rules in the US, affect many money transfer businesses, because most transfers typically have to be converted into US dollars and therefore touch US soil. What the US authorities think is therefore important.

We are committed to doing our utmost to ensure that remittances continue to flow through secure, legitimate channels. The market is adapting, and remittances are continuing to flow into and out of the UK. Particular concerns have been raised regarding Somalia, as we have heard today. That market, too, is adapting and remittance channels remain open. The supervisors and the Government have been monitoring the situation carefully. We know that all MSBs operating in the Somali corridor prior to the decision by Barclays continue to do so, with a number still having bank accounts. Although individual MSBs may be finding trading conditions more difficult, remitters can still service a wide range of customers in the UK and different areas in Somalia. Additionally, many MSBs across a range of corridors are becoming agents of other MSBs, and discussions have been held with various MSB communities on using cash couriers in a manner that is secure and compliant with legal requirements for the cross-border movement of cash.

We must ensure that our constituents are aware of the options available to help them to continue to make remittances. Since the previous debate on the matter in this Chamber, the Government have engaged directly with the Somali community on these options.

Since the previous time I addressed hon. Members on this issue, I have made a written ministerial statement setting out the cross-government effort to find solutions, which included an action plan to secure the continued flow of remittances. The plan includes steps to improve trust in the UK remittance market by the formal banking sector, for example, through building the capacity of money service businesses and providing guidance on the banking of such businesses. It also outlined the creation of an independent action group on cross-border remittances. Through this group, officials from across the Government are working closely with regulators and the private sector to facilitate a sustainable market-based solution. The first full meeting of the group is scheduled to take place next Friday—31 January. I am pleased to announce today that Sir Brian Pomeroy will chair the group. Sir Brian has extensive experience in this field, as the founding chairman of the Payments Council and the previous chair of the Treasury’s financial inclusion taskforce, and through his work with the Alliance for Financial Inclusion.

[John McDonnell]

Fauzia Adan, a former constituent of mine, is now Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister of Somalia. I am not sure whether there has been full dialogue with the Somalia Government regarding their representation on this group. Has a representative been nominated?

[Sajid Javid]

I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman specifically whether a representative was nominated or if there will be one in the group, but I can certainly look into that and get back to him. I can confirm that we are working with the Somalia Government, through the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, on this issue overall.

The Somalia-focused working group may be of particular interest to many hon. Members in the Chamber. The group has been tasked with developing a safer corridor pilot to ensure secure remittance channels to Somalia. The group will work with the World Bank, which will provide technical expertise, and the pilot will aim to improve the security, transparency and oversight of this existing remittance channel. The Department for International Development has held consultations to identify appropriate representatives for the working group on the safe corridor. International partners, including the World Bank, the G20 and the international strategic alliance on law enforcement, are also supporting this work.

The group working on the pilot has agreed its final terms of reference, through consultation with stakeholders, and these will be presented to the action group next week. The Somalia-focused group, working with its partners, including the World Bank and others, believes that there is a one-year implementation for the pilot project.

Before I conclude, I want to make sure that I have answered questions raised by hon. Members, if I have not answered them already. The hon. Member for Cardiff West asked about international engagement. I hope that I have given him some insight into that, regarding our working with the G20, the World Bank and other international partners. We are also working through the EU. The hon. Gentleman knows that a payment services directive exists, but a second payment services directive is being negotiated with EU partners. We have taken a strong interest in that to ensure that whatever comes out of it does not make this situation any more difficult, but helps to improve it by encouraging the development of rules to deal with money laundering and our other natural concerns that are proportionate and do not make the situation difficult for banks throughout the EU. We have to keep in mind that Britain has, I think, more money service businesses than any other European country, so that is another important aspect of our international engagement.

Several hon. Members asked how well Government co-ordination is working. We have a steering group at Government level, of which the Treasury is part, which meets every single week. As well as the Treasury, the group involves the Cabinet Office, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the National Crime Agency, which provides information from our intelligence agencies that we think might help, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Department for International Development. The Treasury is a core part of that group, which has proved important in ensuring that we stay on top of the issue and treat it with the urgency that it deserves.

[Rushanara Ali]

I thank the Minister for his answers, but I have a couple of further questions. First, are there likely to be any impact assessments on cash couriers? Will the group’s terms of reference include what it would mean if cash couriers were going into those countries? What should Somali and other remitters expect? Secondly, will the terms of reference be published? Will there be opportunities for people in the community and the various sectors, and for the NGO community and Opposition Members, to feed in their suggestions?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sajid Javid]

First, we believe that cash couriers, if structured properly, can play a sensible and legitimate role in expanding provision for MSBs. That can work if it is done in a certain way. The action group is working to produce more guidance on how we think that can work, with the aim of making the banks more comfortable. That is why it is important to discuss the matter around the table with regulators and NGOs, which are also part of the action group. That is important not just in the context of cash couriers, but more generally.

My understanding is that the terms of reference will be published, but I will look into that further and get back to the hon. Lady with a more specific answer. My only slight hesitation is that some aspects of the discussion will be confidential and sensitive, especially those relating to money laundering and the financing of terrorists. I hope that she understands that some information will not be put in the public domain because it would not be practical or sensible to do so. Although I am keen to ensure an ongoing flow of information from the action group so that our constituents may stay updated, I do not suggest that the action group will share all the information that is put before it, or all the work that is going on at a Government level.

[Kevin Brennan]

Although the Minister is not able to order anyone to do anything, I asked him whether he agreed that Barclays ought to consider reopening the bank accounts of businesses such as the one in my constituency that were closed following our debate in July 2013, so that while the court case is being considered, those businesses may get on with the business that they have carried out legally, lawfully and without problem for many years? It would be helpful if the Minister were able to say that he feels that Barclays ought at least to consider doing that, even though I completely accept that he is not in a position to order it to do so.

[Sajid Javid]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reminding me of his question. I understand why he raises that matter, and there are two parts to my answer. First, there is a legal dispute, and I do not think it is sensible for any Minister to give an opinion on any matter that is before our courts, which would not be helpful to either party in the dispute. Secondly—this links to my earlier point—Barclays has to make its own decisions. Barclays is a commercial organisation. It has to assess the risks of doing business as well as, as the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow pointed out, the potential impact of its commercial decisions on its own reputation. I will ensure that Barclays receives the report of our proceedings so that it may have an opportunity to reflect on the words of not just the hon. Gentleman, but all hon. Members who have participated in the debate.

[Stephen Doughty]

With your indulgence, Mr Owen, I have three brief points for the Minister to respond to. First, on the time scales and the window of opportunity that we have, will he assure us that there will be key milestones by which certain aspects of the process will have been concluded? Secondly, will the action group report back to the wider community that has an interest after the meeting on 31 January, because one concern is that there has not necessarily been as much feedback and information sharing as possible with the community? Finally, at what level is the weekly group meeting? Is it at the level of directors, heads of team or Ministers? Who is involved in that group?

[Sajid Javid]

First, we all share the sense of urgency on the time scales, which is apparent from all hon. Members who have spoken today and from the Prime Minister’s communication that the hon. Gentleman read out. Naturally, it is always helpful to set targets—I referred to the target that the Somali focus group pilot would be up and running within a year—but we also have to respect that there is no advantage in setting an artificial target and saying that something should be done in six months or a year. This complex issue requires a degree of international involvement and co-ordination, so the most important thing is to ensure that we do the work urgently, but in a way that brings a long-lasting solution. While I share his sense of urgency, I hope that he respects that answer.

In answer to the second question, we will share as much information as possible with all members of the public, although of course the matter is of particular interest to certain communities in the UK. I have had meetings, for example, with representatives of the Somali community, as have a number of officials in the Treasury, DFID, the FCO and other Departments, and we will continue to have those meetings and to share as much information as possible.

Broadly speaking, the weekly meetings involve officials from all Departments, but the hon. Gentleman’s question was more specifically about the level of those officials, and I will have to find that out because I am not sure whether it is always the same officials involved and always people at the same level. Clearly there will be some commonality when the meetings take place, but I can find out more detail and share it with him.

[Kevin Brennan]

I shall intervene to allow the Minister to receive his in-flight refuelling, because we would like to know what it says.

[Sajid Javid]

I have just had a moment of inspiration, so I can share with hon. Members that the weekly meetings are between the heads of the teams in each Department, which will hopefully reassure the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty).

I hope it is clear that the Government share the concern of all hon. Members who have spoken today, and I speak from my personal perspective of understanding the importance of the remittance sector, as well as in my role as Financial Secretary. We will stay on top of the issue, engage and share as much information as we can. I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff West on instigating the debate, which has been a welcome opportunity for us all to share more information.