Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, I draw attention to my registered interest as chair of the National Preparedness Commission and I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Baroness in Waiting/Government Whip (Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent) (Lab)
My Lords, Exercise Pegasus tested our ability to respond to a pandemic, involving all nations of the UK and thousands of participants. Evaluation and lesson identification is under way for the first three phases, with interim findings incorporated into the draft pandemic preparedness strategy due to be published in early 2026. The final exercise phase, focusing on recovery, is planned for this summer. The Government have committed to communicating the findings through the post-exercise report this winter.
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for that response. It is important that Exercise Pegasus is seen as being about not simply pandemics but the much wider issues of how every level of government and the nation as a whole are prepared to deal with crises and emergencies. In that context, can she tell us more about how the voluntary, community and faith sectors, and the business community, were engaged in this exercise at national and local resilience forum level?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend, who is a world-leading expert in this area, is absolutely right. All exercises should be about ensuring that we can adopt a whole-of-society approach to resilience. That includes making sure that all key stakeholders are involved. Conversations and engagement are ongoing, but, to reassure your Lordships’ House, not only were 6,000 professionals mobilised in each phase of this exercise but we had 16 focus groups and four population surveys, and 2,000 members of the public were involved. That included specific focus groups with the voluntary sector and key businesses to make sure that we could and can deliver. Fundamentally, these exercises are about making sure that the right relationships, as well as the right structures, are in place.
Lord Stirrup (CB)
My Lords, Exercise Pegasus 2025 was clearly extremely useful. However, the Chief of the Defence Staff was recently reported as saying that we do not have a holistic plan for the mobilisation of the NHS in the event of a large-scale conflict. What action is being taken to assess the requirements of such a mobilisation and to take any necessary remedial action?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble and gallant Lord makes an incredibly important point about making sure that every part of our society is involved and prepared for whatever crisis may come before us. There is no more important role for this Government than keeping our people safe, by ensuring that we have a strong Armed Forces and that our public services can cope with these moments. The Chief of the Defence Staff was clear in his evidence to the HCDC that the UK national defence plan will be developed across 2026, in line with our NATO commitments at home and abroad.
Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Covid epidemic was made much worse by obesity? As two-thirds of British people are obese or overweight and half our children are obese, what are the Government doing to reduce that incidence and reduce the mortality in any future epidemics?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I was hoping I looked a bit skinny today, but maybe not.
The noble Lord raises an important point about how we ensure that the general public are as well as they can be, given that we do not know what the next threat may be and how it will touch society. That is why this Government launched their 10-year health plan, which includes how we engage with those who have health inequalities and wider inequalities, to ensure that every member of the general public is best placed to deal with the threat.
Lord Scriven (LD)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. Feedback from local resilience forums suggests that they are now clearer about their roles thanks to this exercise but lack the surge funding to maintain the staff trained during Pegasus. Will the Government be looking to commit to a multiyear resilience funding settlement for local resilience forums, to ensure that the lessons of Pegasus are not lost to pressures on local budgets?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord raises an important point. Additional funding has been allocated for health, to make sure we have the long-term investment of £460 million in place. The noble Lord will be aware that we currently have the LRF trailblazer scheme in place and are in the process of developing the protocol, which is due for testing in March. I hope that any further issues around funding will follow at that point.
Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Harris mentioned the community and voluntary sectors in his question. It was clear during the pandemic how very reliant we are on the community and voluntary sectors to step up to the plate quickly in times of emergency. They do, however, often feel that they are consulted and involved a bit late. Can my noble friend the Minister assure me that this will not happen in future epidemics?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend is right. Many of us volunteered during that period, through our faith communities and the community groups with which we are associated. As we saw during the pandemic, voluntary and community groups are at the heart of our communities and faith groups. The reality is that during Exercise Pegasus we ensured that their voices were heard. Phase 4 of Pegasus is about how we recover from a pandemic. Those voices, and stakeholder engagement with that sector specifically, are key elements of these conversations.
Lord Harper (Con)
My Lords, the next threat that faces the country is unlikely to be the same as the last one. What lessons have the Government learned about making sure that Ministers can assess the threat, whatever it is, make the appropriate trade-offs and respond quickly, but also engage both Houses of Parliament to ensure there is proper democratic oversight and scrutiny of the important trade-offs and choices that are made?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord is right. However, it is about not just this House and the other place but the four devolved Assemblies, making sure that all nations and regions have proper democratic oversight and engagement in any process. That is why Pegasus included not only ministerial leads, which it did, and the relevant government departments and arm’s-length bodies, but regional and national Governments, and the LRFs, to make sure that we knew who was responsible for what and at what time, and, candidly, where there are holes that we need to fill. We need to learn from previous experiences, whether that is the pandemic or the recent storms, and we need to make sure that we are prepared for what may face us. That is why I urge all noble Lords to read the National Risk Register matrix to see where the threats may come from.
Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)
Can the Minister say what relationship, if any, there is with the inquiry chaired by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Hallett?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
We are very grateful to the noble and learned Baroness and her inquiry into Covid-19. Exercise Pegasus came out of one of the recommendations in module 1 of the inquiry, so we are reflecting on its recommendations as they are made. We have guaranteed that there will be one major tier 1 exercise per year and to publish their findings every year, which is an important part of it and one of the key recommendations that has already come from the noble and learned Baroness’s review. We look forward to her recommendations going forward.
Lord Blunkett (Lab)
I do not want to put my noble friend the Minister on the spot, but will she take cognisance of what has happened with the noble and learned Baroness’s interim report in relation to the use of statistics and the suggestion that a week-earlier lockdown would have saved 23,000 lives? The reliance at the time on certain academics, particularly at Imperial College, and the reliance of the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Hallett, on statistics from Imperial College, are extremely worrying because they have been debunked. Can my noble friend ensure that people are asked to really check the robustness of the analysis and the statistical methodology when they are going forward with Pegasus or other reports in the future?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend is right that my statistics may not be someone else’s statistics. We should always interrogate the data that is being put in front of us.
Baroness Finn (Con)
My Lords, we welcome the scale and ambition of Exercise Pegasus. Simulating crisis events in this way is clearly vital if we are to strengthen national resilience and avoid the shortcomings exposed during the Covid pandemic. However, the exercise was conducted on discrete days over several months, with breaks in between. A real pandemic is relentless, cumulative and exhausting for systems and decision-makers alike. Can the Minister explain how the Government ensured that this sense of sustained pressure, operational fatigue and compounding risk was adequately captured within the exercise design, despite the staged nature of the simulation?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Baroness raises an important point about how realistic we can make exercises. Some of this is about making sure that the processes and people are all in place and that they know each other; that was one of the fundamental factors that that did not necessarily work during the pandemic. We sought to use focus groups and other mechanisms to ensure that the environments were as realistic as possible and to try to stress-test what was going on. We will continue to do that as the exercise continues into this year, and I look forward to seeing the initial findings report imminently.