(5 days, 2 hours ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Berkeley
To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to improve the service, quality and affordability of public transport to remote communities.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)
My noble friend asked this Question in relation to the Isles of Scilly. At present, there are no plans to introduce a new subsidy, regulatory framework or funding model for the islands’ transport services. Support is therefore a matter for local discretionary schemes, which the Isles of Scilly council already has. However, the Government have provided targeted support where appropriate, including £750,000 in July 2025 through the clean maritime demonstration competition to explore a potential clean technology passenger sea route between the mainland and the islands.
Lord Berkeley (Lab)
I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. Coincidentally, I received a letter last Friday from his colleague, Keir Mather, the Minister for shipping, who gave me much the same answer, but he prayed in aid the £3 bus fare cap which goes around the whole country. He regretted that there was no similar scheme for the Isles of Scilly, because it was not a local transport authority. The result is that, rather than £3, if a bus could get to Scilly, it would cost £100 single—plus somewhere between £10 and £70 within the islands. So I am grateful to my noble friend, but it needs a closer discussion. I hope that my noble friend will agree to have a meeting with myself and the chairman of the council, as well as the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, to see whether we can come up with a solution that is economically viable for the council and something better for the population.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
My noble friend will recognise the 28 miles of sea between the mainland and the Isles of Scilly and that the road network on the Isles of Scilly is all of 14 miles. So it is hard to see that comparable bus fares and bus practices are applicable. But, recognising the particular challenges with transport both to and from the islands and between them, my noble friend Lady Taylor and I will be happy to meet my noble friend on the Benches behind me and the leader of the council to discuss these issues further.
Baroness Pidgeon (LD)
My Lords, there are higher per-passenger costs and of course structural challenges to serve low-density remote areas. Will the Government therefore revise their bus service funding formula to introduce a rural weighting to help authorities provide the public transport that is essential for these communities?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I am surprised that the noble Baroness is not aware that the local transport funding formula does recognise rural areas. We had extensive discussions, as the noble Baroness will recognise, in the then Bus Services Bill, and, indeed, the Government, compared with previous Governments, have chosen, rightly, to fund every English transport authority in a way that was not done previously.
It is hard to see quite how bus services permeate some very remote places, but the noble Baroness will also know that there are some demand-responsive schemes—transport and others—which are eligible for subsidy. In the English devolution Bill, we are a couple of days from discussing taxi and private hire vehicles, which also form part of the transport solution in those areas.
Lord McLoughlin (Con)
Will the Minister look at the role that the Community Transport Association can play? I believe that it can play a vital and important role, particularly in remote country areas, usually with small charities. In the past, the Department for Transport—I cannot remember exactly when—set up a special grant so that those charities could apply directly to get new community buses, which makes a direct impact and does a great deal of good work, particularly in remote rural areas.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Lord is absolutely right. Community transport is a very elegant way of solving some of these issues. I am glad he cannot remember when that funding was established, because I cannot either. It might even have been when the noble Lord was the Transport Secretary himself. But his point is well taken: community transport is a good answer in those circumstances, and I echo his point that it should be well regarded and we should look at it in those circumstances.
Lord Forbes of Newcastle (Lab)
My Lords, further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, can I ask my noble friend the Minister to join me in thanking the many hundreds of volunteers who run our community transport services? Furthermore, when we see the extension of combined authorities with transport responsibilities covering more rural areas, will the Minister give consideration to the role that community transport services can play in the provision of public transport to ensure that they are not overlooked and continue to add value and good-quality services in the areas that need them most?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I completely agree with my noble friend. People who serve voluntarily in community transport should be absolutely praised for coming out in all weathers for everybody. As I said, and as he is right to say, it is a good solution to mobility in those areas and we will reiterate the use of these things as the mayoral combined authorities are established.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the great transport scandals in this country is that it costs something like £20 per mile to take the smallest car from Portsmouth to Fishbourne on the Isle of Wight? There is a monopoly there that operates completely against the economic interests of those trying to make a living on the Isle of Wight and, as we call it, the north island.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Lord is certainly correct to identify that people on the Isle of Wight think that this is a problem. When I wrote the Union Connectivity Review report, although it was not specifically about the Isle of Wight, I had more correspondence from the Isle of Wight than I did from Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales.
This Government are tackling this issue. We set up the Cross-Solent Transport Group and Minister Mather, to whom my noble friend Lord Berkeley referred, has recently appointed Brian Johnson CBE, the ex-MCA chief executive, as the group’s independent chair to, first of all, sort out its terms of reference and then focus on locally led solutions to what the noble Lord correctly describes as a perceived and real problem of connectivity between the Isle of Wight and the English mainland.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, if the Government are so worried about connectivity to the Isle of Wight, why are they introducing a carbon tax on the domestic maritime sector from June this year? According to the operators, this will have a devastating effect on fares not only to the Isle of Wight and the Isles of Scilly but to the many other islands that are dependent on affordable ferry connections to the mainland. Do the Government have any idea of the mayhem this is causing at a time when they are meant to be concentrating on reducing the cost of living?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Lord ought to know that, in respect of ferry transport to the Isle of Wight and the Isles of Scilly, new ships and methods of transport are being procured and built in order both to provide up-to-date transport and to reduce carbon emissions on those services. We reject absolutely the concept that somehow these ferry routes have to survive under conditions of excess carbon emissions when modern ships, and indeed the technology I referred to in respect of the potential new service to the Isles of Scilly, are there for the very purpose of reducing carbon emissions but increasing connectivity.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, perhaps my noble friend the Minister could point to the noble Lord opposite that the mayhem that will be caused by prices will be far outstripped by the mayhem caused by climate change. I refer him to the latest projections, which show that climate change is increasing rapidly and that, unless we take decisive action on carbon emissions, we face a very frightening future indeed.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I agree with my noble friend absolutely. More to the point, the ferry operators recognise that, too, as befits the ordering of new ships with reduced carbon emissions and the experimentation to the Isles of Scilly to which I previously referred.
Viscount Thurso (LD)
My Lords, I am sure the Minister will recognise that many remote rural areas are particularly reliant on their rail services. Coming from Thurso, which is the most northerly station on the main line of the United Kingdom, I recognise both the fragility and importance of the Far North Line. While I recognise that much of the responsibility for that lies with the Scottish Government, does he agree with me that the creation of Great British Railways offers the potential for a reset between the various companies that are responsible: ScotRail, Network Rail and Great British Railways? To that end, what discussions is he having with the Scottish Government?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Viscount is certainly right to say that the railway to Wick and Thurso is a lifeline. In answer to his question, we have had a lot of cordial discussion with the Scottish Government, which is resulting in a methodology of operation proposed as a consequence of establishing Great British Railways, which will continue the integration of operations and infrastructure in Scotland and therefore continue the operation of that line into what one would hope to be the very, very distant future.