Lord Cashman
To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards implementing the recommendations of the LGBT Veterans Independent Review, published in July 2023, with particular regard to the Financial Recognition Scheme.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)
My Lords, I will start answering this Question by paying tribute to Lord Etherton—we would not be having Questions such as this were it not for him—and the noble Lords, Lord Cashman and Lord Lexden. We should remind ourselves of the work people do in this House and the progress they make.
The Government have implemented 48 of the 49 recommendations, including 14 restorative measures and the LGBT financial recognition scheme. I encourage affected veterans to visit GOV.UK for information on these schemes. The outstanding recommendation focused on the ban’s long-term consequences for female veterans and will be achieved through work starting this year, following the commitment in this Government’s veterans strategy to better understand and support women veterans.
Lord Cashman (Non-Afl)
I thank my noble friend the Minister for that statement and, equally, for his kind words. I also pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton. This is a great example of what we can do when we act cross-party in the common good. I congratulate my noble friend, the Government and the previous Government on the work done to implement the late noble and learned Lord’s recommendations. However, sadly, I must express the concern of the charity Fighting With Pride, and my own concerns, regarding the delays in implementing financial reparations, and some discharged and dismissed payments appeals which appear contrary to the letter and the spirit of the review.
It is important that the Government act swiftly. Many who were discharged or forced out, or had their service terminated, are in their later years. Sadly, many are in ill health. Therefore, I ask my noble friend the Minister: what further measures will the Government take to speed up the delivery of financial reparations, and to address the concerns raised regarding dismissed and discharged payment appeals? Now is the time to finally deliver the justice so deserved by these brave LGBT veterans who, to quote the late Lord Etherton, were so shamefully treated.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
We all associate with the remarks my noble friend just made with respect to the shameful way in which people were treated between 1967 and 2001. On the timeliness of the financial recognition scheme and the direct payments, the Government are working hard to ensure that we get to those who are the most seriously ill and the most elderly first so that they get the recognition that they deserve. On the impact part of the financial recognition scheme, the Government are going to increase the number of panels from two to three—I notice the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, in his place—which will allow three meetings of those panels each week. We are also appointing an additional chair. We think those measures, reaching out to local councils, reaching out to veterans’ charities and increasing the numbers of panels should speed up the process to ensure that we get to those veterans who need that support.
Lord Hayward (Con)
My Lords, I have enormous respect for the Minister and what he has been doing on this scheme, but there is a sense among the former service men and women that the rules are being applied far too narrowly, with no flexibility whatever. That was not the intention of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, when he drew up the scheme. Could the Minister please look at this to ensure that there is a degree of flexibility in the operation of the scheme, as was intended, and that the rules are not applied precisely as written and in no other circumstances?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
The noble Lord makes an important point. The fundamental principle of the scheme that is operating is to ensure that everybody who was affected by the ban between 1967 and 2001 receives the recognition that they deserve. For some, that will be under the financial recognition scheme, whichever part of that it may be, but part of this is about the restoration of rank, berets and those sorts of things. It is not the Government’s intention to exclude anyone who is eligible, and we will ensure that as much as we can. I heard what the noble Lord said, and we will always look at that, but we need to make sure that we get to those people who are covered by the scheme.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, it seems that gay veterans have, in some ways, been delivered a double whammy: not only the central discrimination, which is the way they were discriminated against in the past, but, on top of that, the discrimination and delays in rectifying it. It would be good if the Government could indicate when we are likely to see this rectified.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
This gives me the opportunity to say this to the noble Baroness: I urge everybody that all applications for the scheme need to be in by midnight on 12 December this year. It is important to make that statement. The Government have no interest in trying to delay, or in not doing everything as quickly as possible. The noble Baroness urges the Government, as other noble Lords have, to do as much as we can, as quickly as we can. We will do that, because it is not in our interest not to. This is in the interest of putting right something that was wrong, and that is supported across the Chamber. It is our intention to ensure that we get to as many affected veterans as possible, to ensure that they get not only recognition under the scheme but some way of trying to put right the wrong of the past.
The Earl of Effingham (Con)
My Lords, my father hugely enjoyed working for the noble Lord, Lord West, in Washington DC and London, so I believe I have some understanding of the commitment of veterans. Many of the veterans involved in this redress scheme face excessive delays in accessing their own service records, as those applying for the financial recognition scheme are not prioritised for subject access requests. Surely that is neither fair nor reasonable.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My Lords, there is a reverse burden of proof, so anybody applying to the scheme is believed; it is up to the MoD to show that their service records do not match what they put forward. Everybody asked for that, and everybody accepted that it was really important. It is not in anybody’s interest to delay anything. We respect veterans, as the noble Earl does, and we want as many people to receive recognition under the terms of this scheme as possible. We will do everything to ensure that happens. There is no delay on the Government’s part.
On the noble Earl’s point on the service records, should somebody be refused recognition under the scheme, they can apply for the evidence that the MoD used to refuse them that recognition and use it as part of furthering their appeal against refusal. I think the MoD is trying to do that. On subject access requests, I think that takes us into medical records and a different dataset. I reassure the noble Earl that anything used in evidence to refuse recognition under the scheme will be released to the person who made the application.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, on the back of this scheme, I have been trying for three years to get action on the diplomats who were thrown out of the FCDO for being gay. I have raised this many times and keep being told that we will be updated on finding those who were sacked from the FCDO. Can the Minister give us a date for when that work will be done, when these people will be identified and when a similar scheme will start for them?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
Let me talk to FCDO colleagues about that and come back to the noble Baroness with a letter, rather than make something up, because I am not sure of the answer. I will go back to the FCDO, write to the noble Baroness and put a copy in the Library.
Lord Paddick (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I declare an interest as the independent chair of the panel deciding on impact payments under the LGBT financial recognition scheme. Although I acknowledge the strenuous efforts of the independent panel members, who are dealing with long, complex and harrowing cases, will the Minister ensure that the appointment of an additional chair and additional panel members is expedited to ensure that all cases are dealt with by the absolute deadline of April 2027?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
The simple answer is yes. The noble Lord makes an important point. I will ensure that the ministry takes that forward and expedites this as quickly as possible to support the excellent work that the noble Lord has been doing with the other panel members.
Lord Pannick (CB)
Will the Minister acknowledge that what he rightly described as the shameful treatment of service men and women who are LGBT prior to 2001 ended only because of a judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, and that persons who criticise the role of the European court should bear that in mind as an example of the valuable role of that institution? I declare an interest because I am very proud that I was counsel for the claimants in that case.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
Congratulations on that further string to the noble Lord’s bow. The important point is that he is to be congratulated on the work that he did to bring that change forward and right that wrong. He should be proud of that, in the way I pointed out to other noble Lords. Frankly, we can make points about the European Court of Human Rights or many other courts, but the important thing is that the noble Lord used the legal process that was available at that time to put right a wrong. He is to be congratulated on that, but so is everybody across the House in the campaign to recognise that when something is wrong, sometimes the best thing to do is to admit it and put it right.