UK Constitution: Oversight and Responsibility (Report from the Constitution Committee)
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(1 day, 12 hours ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I absolutely did, but I think on this occasion we can suggest that this Government are very clear in their commitment to the rule of law and the people who are in post.
There was a great deal of discussion about good chaps—I like to think chaps and chapesses—at the heart of which, as touched on by my noble friend Lord Pitkeathley, was the culture of stewardship that we have a collective responsibility to deliver with regard to our constitution. We all have an extraordinarily privileged position in sitting in your Lordships’ House and being part of our constitution. Therefore, the onus is on us to make sure that we work as members of the Government and as Members of Parliament to deliver on it.
I will write to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, about Bristol City Council. I went to school in Bristol, so I have a particular interest there. The noble Lord, Lord Bates, gave us a masterclass; I loved his historical comparisons and imaginative use of ChatGPT. I speak in your Lordships’ House on many different issues, and AI always manages to get into the debate. I did not think it would do so today, but I appreciate the ingenuity.
My noble friend Lady Alexander made a fascinating and very important point on the devolution settlement and the role of the Lord Chancellor. It is a position we have discussed in great detail in recent days and which I will reflect on, given the responsibilities we place on it. I am proud of the work that our party has done to drive the devolution agenda to deliver for people. We will continue to do so through the English devolution settlement and by making sure that devolution continues to work.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Bellamy, raised a very interesting point about ensuring deeper public understanding of our constitution. As I said, there is an onus on all of us to do that; it is incredibly important for all citizens and lots of parliamentarians do extraordinary work to support public understanding. I will take away his suggestion, but I am not sure that a single programme led by government on promoting the constitution would be effective.
Having said that, the noble Lord, Lord Norton, touched on active citizenship. Citizenship is on the national curriculum. We are currently undertaking a review of the national curriculum and I hope that when we get the outcome of the review, we will be able reflect on this and other issues related to citizenship.
The noble Lord, Lord Hannan, knows that I genuinely enjoy his oratory in your Lordships’ House, not least because it forces me to question my own opinions every time to make sure that my views are in line with my values as much as his align. It will not surprise him, therefore, that although his speech was fascinating as ever, I still believe in the role of the Human Rights Act in ensuring that there are safeguards for the operation of government and the other safeguards that were touched upon by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace.
Returning to the noble Lord, Lord Norton, I thank him for his decades of work on constitutional protections. The Government have well-established parliamentary and devolution capability programmes for civil servants, but there is always more to be done. I will go back and look at exactly what we need to do and the suggestions we need to follow.
I can reassure the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, about the current political environment. I remind noble Lords there are four years until the next general election, and we will see how many political parties we will be facing in four years’ time, but I do reflect upon the seven that are now in existence. Noble Lords who are aware of my own personal travails will be aware of what I think of the establishment of the most recent of those political parties. His suggestion regarding the 1868 oaths Act is an interesting one, and I will have a conversation about it in the department. I also thank him for reminding us of the important role the monarch plays within our constitution, but also the subtle way that conversations can be had that give a level of importance to the Prime Minister.
To the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, I say that the Cabinet Secretary’s filing system sounds all too familiar and similar to my own. All members of the Government should reflect on our own filing systems, in both our emails and on paper. She had interesting thoughts on the Propriety and Constitution Group, and I would welcome a further conversation with her outside your Lordships’ House to consider what next steps we might need to take and possible areas of reform. I reassure all noble Lords that members of the Propriety and Constitution Group are accountable to the relevant Ministers, as is normal for all civil servants. For a moment during the noble Baroness’s speech, I thought she was about to suggest that we need another arms-length body, and I was amazed, but absolutely not—she did clarify that that was not something she would welcome.
The noble Lord, Lord Beith, also raised a point about the Propriety and Constitution Group. I reassure him that while the union and devolution teams have moved from and back to the Cabinet Office, the Propriety and Constitution Group has consistently been in the Cabinet Office. This gives us the opportunity to preserve institutional memory, as was touched upon by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Neuberger.
On the Cabinet Manual, the Government are focused on delivering the commitments outlined in our manifesto. We know the importance of the Cabinet Manual and while we do not currently have plans to update it, we are keeping it under review.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
I ask for an assurance that when the Cabinet Manual is renewed, there will be consultation with the appropriate committees in both Houses before it is published.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I am going to say yes, and we will see how much trouble I have just got myself in.
NHS, Armed Forces and Civil Service Staff: Public Meetings
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(3 days, 12 hours ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, before I joined your Lordships’ House, I ran an organisation called Index on Censorship. We should be very careful about the use of that word and how it applies here, versus the political dissidents I used to represent. The noble Baroness talks about something that everybody in this Chamber has participated in—a Chatham House rules discussion. On the point she raised about the RUSI Land Warfare Conference, it was completely appropriate that the head of the British Army led the discussion. She will also be aware that this is a cyclical news story that appears regularly. After all, in 2020 the former Defence Secretary Ben Wallace was accused of gagging his head of the Navy.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, politics and government are necessarily an informed dialogue between Ministers and civil servants and between senior civil servants and outside experts. We need to maintain the ability of expert policymakers to have that dialogue. If it is felt that senior civil servants cannot honestly discuss with outsiders—I declare an interest as someone who used to work at Chatham House and do such things—decent policy-making will deteriorate. Can the Government make it absolutely clear that senior civil servants have to engage with outside professions with which their policy-making responsibilities interact?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, ongoing engagement with stakeholders, whoever they may be, is key. Noble Lords will be aware that one of my responsibilities in your Lordships’ House is to discuss the Infected Blood Inquiry. There is a responsibility on our civil servants to engage every day both with those in the infected community and with the charities that represent them. That is true of every part of government business and it is vital that civil servants are available to do so, which is why this Government have not changed any such policy.
Ethics and Integrity Commission
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(3 weeks, 2 days ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire
To ask His Majesty’s Government when they plan to establish an Ethics and Integrity Commission to ensure probity in government.
Baroness in Waiting/Government Whip (Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent) (Lab)
My Lords, this Government are committed to establishing the right structures to uphold the highest standards of ethics and integrity. Steps we have taken already to improve probity and transparency include the new Ministerial Code, the strengthened terms of reference for the independent adviser and the new monthly Register of Ministers’ Gifts and Hospitality. On an ethics and integrity commission, Ministers are assessing all the options and we will update Parliament on decisions in due course.
While we are discussing processes related to ethics, integrity and standards in public life, I should declare that my husband is a member of the Committee on Standards in the other place.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
I congratulate the noble Baroness.
This was a clear pledge in the Labour Party’s manifesto, and Liberal Democrats agree that it is essential to re-establishing public trust after the many unethical actions, and even corruption, that we saw particularly under Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. On my shelves at home, I have a whole file of reports from the Committee on Standards in Public Life and from outside commissions, think tanks et cetera, setting out the options on this. There are some very clear and simple choices. If I were asked to write the consultation paper, I think it would take me a weekend. Why have the Government delayed so much in doing so?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, we should discuss bookshelves. As for what we are doing, we have taken immediate action, but we want to make sure that, given how important ethics and integrity are in public life, and especially as—and I think the noble Lord agrees—one of the main ways in which we can challenge and counter the politics of populism is to make sure that people can genuinely trust their politicians, we need to make sure that the structures we put in place work and are right and effective. We are working on it, and I will update the House in due course.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord raises an excellent point, which I am just assured by my noble friend sitting to my right that we are working on in the English devolution Bill and that conversations are ongoing.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, this clearly involves considering a large number of bodies which are concerned with standards in government, Parliament and local government. Does the Minister consider that the process of establishing an ethics and integrity commission will require legislation, or can it be done through executive decisions?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, work is currently ongoing about what we will bring forward and how we will bring it forward. I will update the House as soon as I can.
Improving Cyber Resilience
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for the question. He is absolutely right: there is a clear role here for the National Cyber Security Centre, both during an attack and afterwards, as it works with experts. My noble friend is right that I cannot comment on the details of the current attacks. I reassure noble Lords that the NCSC has a sector-specific trust group, where 60 CEOs from the retail sector have come together, both during the attack and afterwards, to make sure that best practice and information are shared in real time, so that other retail organisations can make sure that they are not subject to similar attacks.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the NAO report in January on government systems, which says that
“departments have significant gaps in their system controls that are fundamental to their cyber resilience. The resilience of the hundreds of ageing legacy IT systems that departments still use is likely to be worse”.
Accepting that the Government have inherited a legacy of years of underinvestment in Whitehall IT, and that the cost of successful cyberattacks is very high, does it not make sense to raise the level of investment in replacing some of these legacy systems as rapidly as possible?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord raises an important point. The NAO report was clear in its criticisms of our structures, and we accept every recommendation of the report. We are working our way through them, which is why we will be bringing forward a government cybersecurity strategy this year—building on the work of the previous Government—to make sure that we are fit for purpose. On the updating of IT, I have just lived through the updating of the printer system in the Cabinet Office. I would suggest that we take a bit of time with the next one.
Arm’s-length Bodies
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend raises an excellent point. This Government are about making sure that we have the right people in the right place to deliver on our plan for change and our mission-driven Government. Delivery is key. Where people have the right skill sets, we will deploy them to make sure we are delivering for the people of the United Kingdom.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister recognise that arm’s-length bodies and executive agencies are as old as the British state? Regular reviews of those bodies are desirable, but repeated restructuring is like ministerial turnover; it damages efficient administration. Would it not be better to make sure that ministerial changes in all these were overseen by parliamentary committees rather more actively, so that if they are supposed to be semi-independent of Ministers they are able to choose to have the support of Parliament either for ministerial change or for continuity?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord makes a very important point about the independence of these bodies. The Infected Blood Compensation Authority, for example, has been established outside government to ensure that people accessing the compensation have trust and faith in the service that they may not have in the Government. Independence is key and is one of our core criteria. The ongoing scrutiny is part of your Lordships’ day-to-day work, but there is also a responsibility on the sponsoring department to make sure that work is done effectively and delivers the objectives. I look forward to discussing this in more detail with the noble Lord.
Government Supply Chains: Cotton
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes an excellent point on quite how volatile current environments are and on ensuring that we do not forget our core value set, within which we operate. I am very pleased that police operations have increased since the Modern Slavery Act was introduced, from only 200 police operations in December 2016 to 2,750 in February this year. We are making huge strides, and I assure the noble Baroness that we will not move away from our values to ensure that modern-day slavery is not present on the streets of the UK, as well as further afield.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, in preparing for this Question I checked with the Global Slavery Index, and I was very struck that China is not in the top 10 of global slavery problems; India and a number of Middle Eastern states, as well as North Korea and Eritrea, come higher. But clearly, in terms of global supply chains, China is high, and the clothing industry in other countries, as well as in China, is extremely important. How are we working with other democratic countries to try to intervene at an early stage in these supply chains to stop things filtering into multinational markets?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord makes an excellent point on how we do it. It is about making sure that modern-day slavery is part of every conversation that is had when we discuss trade deals. I checked to make sure where my clothes came from before I came here today to make sure I was wearing clothes that came from areas that are not subject to modern slavery. Although I was genuinely worried about China, there were other countries on the safety list that I also needed to check. For the record, my clothes are from Turkey and Indonesia—I am fine.
Democracy and Unelected Strong Leaders
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, is it not the case that reviving local democracy is a necessary part of trying to re-engage people in politics? England is the most centralised democracy in the developed world. Sadly, this Government are following the Michael Gove approach of removing government further away from local people. Will they rethink the need to make sure that democracy and government are close enough to ordinary people for them to feel that they can participate in meaningful decisions?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I door-knock and campaign every weekend—the joys of being engaged to a Member of Parliament. This Government are clear on our responsibilities to our local electorates and about making sure that local people feel that they have a voice in our politics. That is why we are bringing forward a devolution Bill.
Public Sector: Working From Home
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
Clearly, if we are going to raise public service productivity, we must tackle training and skills. I deeply regret that the coalition Government sold off the National School of Government. Over the last 15 years, much of the training for our public services has been outsourced, often to management consultancies. What are the Government doing to bring training back in-house and to ensure that there is upskilling for the whole of the public sector, done on a fully professional basis?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, this Government are absolutely committed to the re-prioritisation of our workforce in delivering front-line services, which will require ongoing upskilling and training. On bringing it in-house, I look forward to ongoing conversations with the Minister sitting to my right, my noble friend Lady Smith of Malvern, about how we will collectively work across government to achieve it.
European Union: Court of Justice
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(4 months, 1 week ago)
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Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I thank the noble and learned Baroness for her question and for all the work she has done historically.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, I regularly hear from the Conservative Benches the idea that the worst thing we could ever do is to accept some sort of alignment of regulation with the European Union. I do recall, just before the Maastricht treaty, a publication by Chatham House on the extent to which British regulations, under pressure from exporting businesses, by and large followed the American lead and accepted American extraterritorial jurisdiction. Does the Minister think that is what the Conservatives want us all to do?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
Thankfully, I have the pleasure of speaking for the Government, not the Opposition. With regard to our actions, we will do everything to protect British consumers. I want to be clear with noble Lords that, when we talk about standards and engagement, this Government will not support a race to the bottom on those issues.
75th Anniversary of Formula 1
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(6 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, we know that petrolheads find motor racing tremendous, but we also know that motor racing has been connected closely to innovation in the industry. Are there any plans for experimenting with racing with cars that might be powered by electricity or hydrogen in the future?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
The noble Lord raises a very good point. One of the roles of Formula 1 has been as a driver for cultural change, whether in health and safety, as it has developed safer cars, or in making things that were seen to be unacceptable acceptable in terms of technology and going to the cutting edge. In 2026 we will see a hybrid car for Formula 1, with a new sustainable fuel source. I look forward to seeing how that develops for the commercial market.
Freedom of Speech in Universities
Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Wallace of Saltaire(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
Okay. Does the Minister accept that the urgency of this is rather overstated at present, given the one report in the Telegraph this morning? Does she agree that it is absolutely right to reconsider a badly drafted Act, and that the autonomy of universities has to be respected?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I remind the House that this is a repeat of an Urgent Question and is therefore time limited to 10 minutes.