Pension Credit

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Monday 8th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Whether a person is eligible for pension credit and how much they can get is, as with other means-tested benefits, determined by their financial and personal circumstances, which can be complex. The noble Baroness’s point about technology and vulnerable and elderly pensioners is well made. We try to encourage stakeholders who represent this group, family and friends to do it on their behalf. They can also use the government telephone number.

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, would it not make more sense for the Government to use state resources to support increasing the take-up of pension credit, rather than continuing the policy of the triple lock on state pensions, given that so many people over state pension age continue to work full time or have other incomes? Would taxpayer funds not be better spent promoting pension credit widely, which would increase state assistance for older people in financial need?

Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 13th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, I totally support the intention of this Bill, which ensures that the triple lock is maintained for pensioners. It is extremely important that older people who rely on their pensions do not fall into poverty, especially during this crisis which is hitting them so hard. However, older people who continue to work are not really pensioners; they are older workers. According to the May 2018 Office for National Statistics figures for December 2017 to February 2018, just under 1.2 million people over the age of 65 were in work. That is 10.2% of the entire age group.

The Equality Act 2010 includes provisions that ban age discrimination against adults in the provision of services and public functions. The ban came into force on 1 October 2012 and it is now unlawful to discriminate based on age. When someone receives a pension, they pay tax on any income above their tax-free personal allowance. They cease to pay national insurance on reaching the state pension age, regardless of whether they remain in employment.

The triple lock ensures that the state pension increases each year, using three different components—price inflation, earnings growth and 2.5%. The highest of the three, measured the previous September, is used to increase the pension each April. For the current financial year, UK Government borrowing could be anywhere from £263 billion to £391 billion, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility. People who continue to work over the age of eligibility for a state pension do not need their pensions triple-locked. In today’s attitudes and legislation, these people are older workers not pensioners and, in my view, they should be taxed like other workers in our society.

Financial Guidance and Claims Bill [HL]

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the Bill because, like many noble Lords, I am very concerned that many people approaching retirement age are doing so with insufficient assets or income to provide them with the sort of quality of life that they are expecting. Most people are ill informed, certainly about how long they might expect to live, and they are also underadvised. Even if they are aware of their situation, they do not know where to go to get advice and guidance, and, as the Minister said, they certainly do not know the difference between them.

The whole system has been made more complex by the new flexibilities. While this provides more opportunity for people to make a tailored financial plan, it also provides greater opportunity for financial mistakes, unless people have proper advice and guidance. This was amply demonstrated when, only last week, several reports on pension wealth warned that many Britons have given little thought to their retirement, how long it will last or how their needs will change.

The ONS wealth and assets survey found that two in three of the country’s 40 million adults—about 27 million people—have given no thought to the number of years they need to fund when they stop working. Only half feel confident they will have a big enough pension pot once they retire. The ONS found that most new savers are using auto-enrolment workplace pension schemes, but they are putting in the minimum of just 1% of their salary, which is matched by another 1% from their employer. Saving at this rate means that nearly three-quarters of young workers are set to retire with a £9,000 shortfall on their pension because they are not saving enough. This is a wake-up call. Millions of our fellow citizens are sleep-walking into a disappointing retirement by failing to give proper thought to their financial future.

A survey of staff by Scottish Widows argues that auto-enrolment may be,

“lulling people into a false sense of security”.

It showed that younger staff expect, on average, an annual income of just over £23,000 for a comfortable retirement. But based on the amounts they are saving, the insurer calculated they would actually get only £15,200. A 30 year-old contributing the 1% minimum to their workplace pension will get an annual pension of just £9,734. Even when the minimum auto-enrolment contributions rise to 8%, they will get only £14,047—almost £9,000 below their expectations.

A third report from the Prudential revealed that women are more at risk than men of living in poverty in old age, with the retirement income gender gap growing by £1,100 over the past year. On average, a woman retiring in 2017 will be £6,400 a year worse off than a man retiring this year—up from £5,300 in 2016. There is now compelling evidence that women will need to review their retirement provision at the earliest opportunity possible.

Another significant contributor to a satisfactory retirement is housing wealth. Recent research from CML further endorses the idea that it is vital to adopt a more joined-up approach to delivering advice to older borrowers. Households headed by individuals aged 55 or over form a significant part of the market, numbering approximately 11.8 million or 46% of all households, with the over-55s holding £6.4 trillion-worth of wealth and £2.5 trillion-worth of property wealth.

There is quite a lot there to look at in view of the fact that older people have to make complex, often interrelated decisions about a range of financial services products, from pensions, wealth management and mainstream mortgages, to equity release. More flexible ways to borrow and use housing equity throughout life will play an increasingly key role in how these decisions are made. With advice regimes segmented due to different regulatory conduct rules and permissions, different types of adviser and different product heritage, many observers have long been calling for a smoother experience for consumers.

The CML research shows that many consumers see a disconnect between their need and the services provided. There is a desire for clearer signposting to their options. Many indicators show that demand for borrowing in later life is growing, in particular as a form of financing retirement. However, this research reveals that consumers struggle to navigate the market and that lenders and advisers generally operate in silos which prevent consumers comparing across the whole market. So I fully endorse the Government’s belief that they are best placed to facilitate this signposting role as they develop their single financial guidance body under this Bill. A single body should be easy to understand. It should be much easier to find out where to go and easier for the Government and other people to advertise—no one really understands the difference between the existing bodies at the moment—so I welcome the Bill.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, in the time available I can consider only a very few of the many issues covered in this Bill. I think we all encourage measures that support people into work and to remain at work, so I welcome the clauses which cover the new reporting obligations the Government will have to commit to. They include annual reporting on the progress towards full employment, and this should assist in the task of halving the disability employment gap and recruiting and keeping disabled people in work.

I also welcome the measures that seek to remove income-related targets and replace them with new measures to improve the life chances of children. The new duty to create an annual report on children living in workless households in England and their educational attainment is also very welcome.

The re-emphasis of the importance of encouraging social mobility is also good, but I have some concerns that some of the measures contained in the Bill may, in fact, drive up homelessness and consequently drive people further away from the labour market. In particular, I have concerns about the lowering of the benefit cap, which has been widely discussed by your Lordships. Most working-age benefits are to be frozen under Clauses 9 and 10. Some benefits, however, are not affected and are going to rise in line with CPI. Many of these are pensioners’ benefits. As someone who has worked for most of my adult life to ensure fairness for older people, I say that we must have regard to inter-generational fairness on some of these issues.

Some clauses will change the current provisions for help with mortgage payments. In the future, any assistance with interest payments will be in the form of a loan secured by a charge against the property. Under these regulations, the loan will also accrue interest and incur an administration fee. These costs will be recovered from the available equity in the property when it is sold, but this means that people could be left with nothing because they do not happen to live in the areas such as London and the south-east which enjoy the property prices that now prevail.

Clause 19 requires that registered providers of social housing must reduce the rents payable by 1% each year for the next four years, as the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, has illustrated. While this will be welcome relief to those struggling with the annual uprating of rents in the social housing sector, it is another blow to housing associations, which are still reeling from the plans to force them to engage in subsidised right-to-buy schemes. As a result of that, many associations are now selling off properties on the open market at full price and, if the rent is fair, they will also have to take the hit on any rent reductions. Not all landlords are exploiters of their tenants. While reducing social rents is obviously welcome, tackling the high cost of housing is the only sustainable way of reducing welfare spending in the long run. More housebuilding is the only way to bring housing costs down, and progress in achieving this aim must not be undermined. This reinforces the need for support in the latest round of the Affordable Homes programme, which aims to increase the supply of new affordable homes in England by March 2018.

Finally, as a former commissioner on the Equality and Human Rights Commission, I share the concern of the EHRC, which in its evidence to the Public Bill Committee felt that the impact assessments and human rights memorandum which accompany the Bill do not fully assess the impact on vulnerable groups, and that this could make it difficult for parliamentarians properly to consider the implications of the measures in the Bill. This Bill needs very careful consideration and the sort of scrutiny that only the House of Lords can give it.

Employment Levels of Older People

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2015 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Baroness Greengross]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the effect on the youth unemployed of a potential increase in the employment levels of older people.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, I have tabled this debate largely to illuminate the employment challenges faced by the over-50s in our society. I am privileged to head up a think tank, the ILC-UK, or International Longevity Centre, one of 17 around the world. Through it, we try to help people plan for the future in the light of demographic change and look at the challenges, as well as some of the advantages, of our increased longevity.

Recently, the ILC published two new reports called The Missing Million. These illuminate the employment challenges of people who are over 50, demonstrating that, of the 3.3 million economically inactive people aged 50 to 64, approximately 1 million have been made “involuntarily workless”. We know that the plight of people aged 50-plus is worse than that of those aged 60-plus in a country where there has been very important legislation to ban age discrimination for some years. This really is bad and economically stupid.

The ILC research also shows that if people aged 50 and above are helped back into employment, it does not mean that younger people are crowded out of the labour market. Helping older people into the labour market, or back into it, could also lead to a potential £88 billion boost to UK GDP. As we know, these people create jobs in the consumer sector if they are working because they create the need for more things for other people to buy as those people have more money to spend. If they work and are caring for older relatives, grandchildren or even their own children, then other people are employed in caring. They are a boost to the economy, not a drain on it. This is creating more wealth.

We also know that people who are denied access into the labour market through discrimination, or for whatever reason, will tend to disappear into the black market and the black economy. They will do that because very often they need the money and they have some skills. That is the rather sad result of inadequate policies and safeguards to ensure that they can get work.

The Government created a business champion for older workers, Dr Ros Altmann, who argued recently that if everybody retired one year later, it would add 1% to this nation’s GDP. We know that chronological age has now become rather irrelevant; what we are talking about is capacity and the will to work and to contribute to society and in most cases—because we do not force people into scaffolding or something at the age of 50-plus—people who are in work have a better health record, a better social life with mates or friends and feel that they have more self-worth because they are contributing to the nation’s economy and to society at large. I share Ros Altmann’s belief that retirement should be a journey rather than a one-off event. No employer should make an assumption that employees should be on the work scrapheap because they have reached an arbitrary milestone in their lives.

One common argument against greater labour market participation in older age is that it will prevent younger people entering or staying in paid employment because it takes the jobs away from them. We know, however, that that argument is built on the false assumption that there is a fixed number of jobs in an economy—the lump of labour argument. It has been demonstrated over and over again that that is a fallacy: there is no lump of labour. Creating jobs for people creates a market for more jobs. It is nonsense to assume the opposite, but that assumption goes on.

An increasing number of older people in employment can also support employment across all ages. Older and younger people in a job in a firm can work together. You have the experience of someone who knows the history of the company and young people who may have more vibrant or new ideas to introduce. Together, they are stronger than if there is just one age group. That is a good sign in an economy, and it needs to be encouraged.

Saga carried out some research on that, which showed that the extension of people’s working lives has enhanced employment opportunities for people of all age groups, in particular for younger people. Using data spanning about 50 years from 22 countries, some very good OECD research in 2010 found that old and young workers complement each other rather than substitute for one another, so encouraging later retirement will not have an adverse effect on youth employment. At an individual level, there are also potential benefits—earnings gains, pensions saved and improved financial well-being—but there are also benefits to individuals’ health and well-being. There is a reason to get up in the morning. There is a reason to meet your friends, social interaction, having a part in society and feeling that you have self-worth. Those are all excellent things.

It is encouraging that as part of the DWP’s Age Positive initiative, the Government announced in December an older workers’ champion scheme to combat age discrimination offering targeted support for older jobseekers. I welcome that and hope that the Minister will tell us how well it is doing and how we can all encourage it to do more.

Looking at other good examples, everybody in this field has heard of B&Q, because it led the way in employing older people. Barclays recently launched a new apprenticeship scheme for the over-50s who want a career in the City. We know of the success of Teach First. I have been promoting the idea of “mentor later”. We are looking at how we can do something on those lines with older people.

There are many things that one can do. Paid employment is one thing, but there are other opportunities for older people to play a full role in society. As for stimulating youth employment, the best way to achieve that is through targeted measures that will make young people better prospects for employers, such as improved training and supporting the growth agenda. Young people often benefit from mentoring at work from their older colleagues.

The employment of older people does not keep younger people out of the job market. Rather, by the means outlined above, all our adult citizens, irrespective of their age, who want to work should and could be helped not only to fulfil their aspirations but to contribute to the economy at large, our economy, our society and the benefit of us all.

Underoccupancy Charge: Carers

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

About 40,000 couples in which one is looking after the other were covered by the spare room policy when it was introduced. That is about 6% of the total. The discretionary housing payment system was set up precisely to look at circumstances in which the couple could not share a room—because, of course, many of them could, even though there was a disability.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, a lot of people are looking after severely disabled children, or older adults with long-term conditions—particularly dementia. In order to get some sleep, they have to chop and change, and need additional carers such as other members of the family coming in. They desperately need the extra room. Can those sort of carers usually get an exception to the rule and be allowed to have an additional bedroom?

[Lord Freud]

This is precisely the kind of circumstance for which the discretionary housing payment is designed. It has not been found possible to have a general rule, and that is why this system, which has gone through the courts in quite some detail, has been found to supply support where necessary.

Pensions Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, under my Amendment 2, the deletion of Clause 1(2) would extend the single-tier pension to all pensioners from 2016. My proposed new subsection would require the Government to publish details of measures which would end pensioner poverty. As the noble Baroness said, current pensioners and others due to reach state pension age before 6 April 2016 have been excluded from the single-tier pension. Current pensioners should also benefit from the single tier. A number of options are available to achieve this. For example, the Government could consider extending the single-tier pension to current pensioners. Another approach would see the level of pension credit guarantee increased to the level of the single tier for current pensioners, who will otherwise miss out.

We know that pensioner poverty has fallen over time from 2.9 million in 1998-99 to 1.6 million, of whom nearly 900,000 are in severe poverty, with incomes of less than half median income. Proposed new subsection (2) would make the Government set out a timetable and a strategy for reducing and eventually abolishing pensioner poverty.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, I have encountered more upset in relation to this aspect of the Bill than what I would hope was support for having a state pension above the level of income support. Quite simply, we are talking about individuals who have paid their national insurance, who are too old to benefit from the 2016 changes, whose pensions are less than that, and who feel somewhat aggrieved that many people who have not paid their national insurance will qualify for the increased pension after 2016 when they will not. I appreciate that it is all about money, but I wonder whether a full calculation has been done of the net real costs of putting everyone who is entitled to a pension on to the new arrangement in 2016; I suppose that is unless they have qualifications that exceed that. However, I can only think that there would be a significant net-off in terms of other welfare payments if people’s pensions were slightly larger. This is a fundamentally good piece of legislation on which there is relatively cross-party support. However, I slightly warn the Government that this issue—that those who are too old to benefit from the 2016 reforms will often be worse off than those young enough to benefit—is rather spoiling the welcome to these changes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord German (LD)]

My Lords, I shall have to speak very quietly because I have lost my voice, so if anybody fails to hear to me, I will shout a bit louder after a few days. I just wanted to add to the important points made by the noble Lord. I can always remember receiving my state pension statement. It was a bit of a shock, because I always thought that I was so young that I would never receive one, but it did happen.

The most important aspect of this legislation is clarification of the words as they are written out, because this is a very complex set of arrangements and they need to have clarity of language. Those statements which I have seen are quite clear. I do not hold so negative a view as to how people will see the future world of their pensions. Just today, we have heard that we have now reached 2 million people enrolling in auto-enrolment for pensions—that is, 2 million more than there were 12 months or so ago who know about a pension because they have got into it. We have 3,500 employers. I welcome the British Heart Foundation, which has recently enrolled all its staff. So we know that people are becoming more involved and engaged with their pensions.

The second thing relates to something which happened to me last Friday. I was doing Lords outreach with two schools and the pension question came up. I do not know whether it had been planted by a teacher in advance but it came up. It is quite clear that when these matters are scrutinised, young people are beginning to realise that if we do not put those matters right they, too, will be having to pay more. I always save for my grandchildren, who are enthusiastic to hear that they will be paying to sustain me into older life—but, of course, I am not a recipient of the new single-tier pension. However, when we talk about this issue I wonder whether we should also try to include in it education from a younger age, so that when people receive any financial education within their school life, they can understand that pensions are not a matter for tomorrow or for when you are retiring; they are a matter for the day on which you start to pay and earn. This is a probing amendment but it is very important that, along with other measures which are going on, pensions are seen as an issue for all from now on and not one for when you are retired.

[Baroness Greengross]

My amendment is about a public education programme, which is necessary as so many people are in the same position, as has been outlined in noble Lords’ statements. Amendment 30 seeks to ensure that individuals are made aware of both their responsibilities and expected outcomes here; for example, in terms of state pension contribution years and amounts, and what outcomes they can expect and when. Given longer life expectancy and extended working patterns, it is not unreasonable to increase the number of national insurance contributory years from 30 to 35. People who have contributed for less than 35 years but for at least the minimum qualifying period of seven to 10 years are going to receive a proportion of the pension. However, it is absolutely critical that this change is clearly communicated to all individuals so that they can ensure that any years outside of work—for example, because of ill health or caring responsibilities—are counted as years of contribution and so that they can make appropriate private pension arrangements, should they wish to do so.

[Baroness Sherlock]

My Lords, these amendments relate to the crucial question of information. The Government have stressed at different stages of the Bill the move to reduce the complexity of the state pension to make sure that people understand their likely entitlement and are therefore incentivised to save enough to complement the support that they can expect from the state. This came up a lot when the Work and Pensions Select Committee looked into the matter. Citizens Advice, in its written evidence to the Select Committee, noted that a considerable complexity would remain in the system, mainly as a result of transitional provision. It accepted that as being unavoidable but said that:

“A commitment to a sustained communications programme could improve outcomes, manage expectations, minimise misinformation, promote action on NI contributions, and support personal saving for retirement”.

I think that was nicely put. The ABI said this to the Select Committee:

“Adequate communication of the change will be essential, or the clarity and simplicity of the new system could be undermined … No-one should feel unclear about the amount they will receive—and therefore need to save personally themselves”—

—a common view between the ABI and Citizens Advice.

The Select Committee noted that various witnesses focused on that issue. Sally West of Age UK said that,

“we are finding a lot of people are understandably confused”.

I think that that is an understatement. The Select Committee reported considerable confusion about the reforms. Many people wrongly believed that the introduction of the STP would mean that everyone would get £144 a week in state pension, because they did not understand the eligibility criteria. Others thought that there would be no means-testing at all; others thought that if they were due more under the current system, they would lose all that and get only what was due under the new system. The implications of having been contracted out or of not knowing whether you were contracted out or in was another area of confusion. It was noted that it was therefore important to,

“ensure that people have full information about their own future entitlement as well as a reasonable understanding of the reforms”.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, as a member of the scrutiny committee on the Bill, I welcome the inclusion of the Care Bill in the gracious Speech. The fact that the Bill was published so quickly afterwards gives me confidence that at last we will see some long overdue progress made in improving the well-being of some of the most vulnerable among us, particularly disabled and older people.

I also welcome yesterday’s announcement of the first ever system-wide shared commitment in which 12 national health and care leaders have indicated how they will help local areas to integrate services. I hope that will include housing and prevent the most vulnerable among us being passed around health and care systems in the future. I have also heard that the Government plan to launch a review into all aspects of later life care, which is very welcome. However, without being too cynical, we have had lots of reviews over the past 20 years or so and none of them has resolved the key problem that there is not enough money in the system to provide even a basic level of acceptable quality care, as the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services has confirmed.

Regarding the Care Bill, can the noble Earl tell us when the new care funding eligibility criteria framework will be published? In the new framework it is most important that having moderate care needs is recognised as being relevant and appropriate for initiating the provision of preventive services. The care Bill mandates that a local authority has to exercise its functions with a view to ensuring the integration of care and support provision with health provision and health-related provision. Does the noble Earl agree that encouraging local authorities to lengthen their budget cycles to at least four years would encourage the necessary investment in prevention and intervention in year one? That will pay back only later, with delayed and reduced care needs and costs, and perhaps compressed morbidity.

The annual report from the Prime Minister’s “challenge on dementia” is also due soon. Then we will learn how much progress is being made on making the quality of care as important as the quality of treatment. The prevalence of dementia is growing, and there is often a need for its management to be part of public health responsibility. It should include well-being, the design of the built environment and preventive care. If we are to get dementia-friendly communities, all those aspects need to be looked at. Public health inclusion would be welcome.

I support the view of Macmillan Cancer Care that, at the end of life, social care should be free and appropriate. People dread being in an inappropriate care setting, with a loss of dignity and respect as their final days approach. I get so many heartfelt pleas from the family and friends of people in care, both young and old, about the difficulties they have in finding out who is responsible for their care and, above all, how they can make a complaint. I know that the new clinical reference groups are supposed to meet regularly with patient representative groups but it is most important that dementia and end-of-life care are not forgotten.

On the new CCGs, I am concerned that in some localities, with their smaller management teams, they will not have the resources to fulfil their twin responsibilities of transactional management—such as A&E, NHS 111, contract negotiation and so forth—and the transformational relationship management, in areas like long-term improvement in dementia and end-of-life care, that they need to take on board; and that a disconnect may develop in terms of accountability for both these important areas.

We are seeing increasing costly bed-blocking as older people wait for care home places and clog up acute hospitals. I hope this can be dealt with, but Age UK has today reported that many patients have a 30-day wait to leave hospital. This is totally unacceptable. We need to look across the board at many types of initiatives and bring them together to solve some of these problems. Perhaps, in the end, innovation will be the key. Could we not look, for example, in quality and provision of services, at something like the “patient hotel”-type concept which is de rigueur in Scandinavia? I stress that I see this as an extension of NHS-provided services, and not privatisation.

In another initiative, the think tank with which I am involved, the International Longevity Centre, is coming forward in the next few weeks with a proposal for a more affordable savings product which might appeal to people of modest means who would not normally be able to afford an insurance product, and about whom the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has understandable concerns.

Perhaps we could think more broadly about how we organise our services. For example, perhaps it would make sense if the social care elements of the DWP were merged with the Department of Health—a bit like the old DHSS but with the pension element hived off to employment. We look across the board at all sorts of ideas. Obviously, the DCLG would have to be involved because of local authority care-funding responsibilities. I believe that the current cross-departmental arrangements for the oversight of care funding and provision are one of the main reasons for the lack of joined-up thinking that we see all the time. It seems impossible to bridge these divides, so why not move some of them together and see if that works better? It is only by people with differing skills and sectoral responsibilities coming together that we can benefit from the necessary transformational plans to meet the needs of our ageing population in the years to come.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Grand Committee

Debate on whether Clause 60 should stand part of the Bill.

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, listening to the Minister, I felt rather sad that I was going to stand up and say what I intend to say. It is because these primary authority partnerships are such a good thing and have not been around very long that I want to oppose Clause 60 being part of the Bill.

I spoke briefly about this at Second Reading to say exactly that; that they need to be encouraged and that they should not be overturned, through this Bill, by central government when they intervene in local partnerships by directing councils to follow inspection plans. I declare an interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association and I speak in that capacity. In these difficult times, we know that councils use a wide range of tools to ensure that businesses receive the tailored support that they need. The primary authority is one of the key tools that councils can use when they want to provide individual businesses with tailored support, and when they want to reduce red tape, promote consistent advice from councils and ensure that the limited enforcement resource is risk-based and focused on priorities. I would like to see the removal of this clause, which would make it compulsory for enforcing authorities to abide by the content of inspection plans, which I know is the opposite of what the Minister was saying.

The LGA—I declare an interest—recognises the important role that inspection plans can have in informing enforcement activity but councils are already required by law to have regard to these plans. There are many examples of inspection plans being used to inform the work of councils with companies that have multiple business outlets. Primary authority has only been running since 2009 and has only very recently gained a critical mass of business involvement. It is therefore far too early to identify more than initial findings about the scheme and certainly too early to make wholesale legislative changes. In fact, the evaluation of primary authority involved discussions with only 24 businesses and there are only 11 inspection plans in place.

Furthermore, the evaluation showed that of those councils that had used inspection plans, fewer than 50% found that they enabled a more targeted inspection. It is therefore simply not necessary for central government to intervene in these local partnerships by directing councillors to follow inspection plans. Central direction will reduce flexibility and innovation at a local level. More than that, it will introduce a layer of bureaucracy for both primary authorities and enforcing authorities that fails to accommodate local circumstances and the judgment of competent enforcement officers.

This step also contradicts the Government’s commitment to reduce red tape for councils. It might mean many more delays, in spite of what the Minister suggested. It is an unnecessary use of legislation. I know that the Local Government Association would be happy to discuss opportunities for increasing awareness of inspection plans and how they can be used to achieve more focused and targeted inspections, which would help to achieve the intended outcome without tying councils in unnecessary red tape.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

My Lords, I look forward to the Minister’s response. I am bound to say to the noble Baroness, with whom I normally agree wholeheartedly, that I remain unconvinced of the case that has been made. There is an easement for local authorities that want to go down a different route to that provided for in the Bill. As the Minister said in response to my previous amendment, local authorities are free to react to emergency situations or local complaints should they arise. The inspection plans apply only to routine and proactive inspections. I wait to hear the Minister’s response, but this is not a proposition with which we can align ourselves.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, the noble Baroness raised the question of whether binding inspection plans add a particular burden to local authorities. The answer is no, and that inspecting in accordance with inspection plans will reduce burdens for local authorities by assisting them to prepare for inspections and indicating which areas of the business require inspection, thereby saving time. Inspection plans may also reduce the need for inspections, thereby saving effort. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, I thank the Minister, who has reassured me to some extent. I am not brave enough to argue with the opinion of an authority such as John Lewis—nobody can. However, there are quite a lot of questions for the Local Government Association to consider carefully. The views that I presented to the House were directly received from that body, and I know that it has some further concerns. I will come back later on this if necessary. I thank the Minister and the Committee.

Clause 60 agreed.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, I appreciate the passion and commitment that my noble friend Lady Campbell brought to this amendment and I share her absolute commitment to the aims and objectives of the commission. I have just finished a six-year stint as a commissioner. I was there from the beginning, when the noble Baroness was a co-commissioner with me.

The commission’s aims are beyond dispute and I support them completely, but I share the view of the noble Lord, Lord Lester, that removing Section 3 is not of any great significance. There are things that are much more important in ensuring that the commission’s work will continue, improve and be clearer in the future. I do not think that the section does any harm, but I also do not think that it is terribly important if it goes.

A sad thing is the overriding view that seems to be around now, perhaps in government and perhaps everywhere else, that the commission has failed. I challenge that, as I think that the commission has done some excellent work during the six years that I have been there, in spite of enormous difficulties in trying to meld a whole lot of additional categories of people to be protected, as well as the original protected groups, with the people representing those groups feeling that they were going to be in some way diluted. That has made life very difficult in the commission, but I think that many of those difficulties have been overcome.

Society as a whole still has huge problems—I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, about that. We still have racism and there is still a stigma attached to disability and so on. However, there have been major achievements in the recognition of that, in the ability to speak about it and in the protection of many people who were not protected before. There have been a lot of improvements. The work of the commission should not always be criticised as vague and not achieving anything, as there have been some significant achievements. I say that on behalf of colleagues and former colleagues who have done the majority of that work, which I think needs to be recognised.

The fact that the Joint Committee on Human Rights will in future scrutinise the commission’s business plan and there will be increased parliamentary involvement—for example, the pre-appointment scrutiny of the new chair—is a big improvement. We have been looking at all the things that still need to be done as if everything is totally negative, but having experienced six years of the commission I think that quite a lot has been very positive, including greater transparency about the Government’s funding decisions.

It will be sad if the general duty goes, as removing it is not a huge priority, but I do not think that it will affect the work of the commission. To that extent, I do not think that the Government have to worry too much. We have to work hard to ensure that the commission’s aims are met in the future. More specific duties and responsibilities ought to be useful in improving the situation and making sure that the aims are met. I am sorry if I am in a minority here, but I am passionate about what the commission stands for and I want to acknowledge some of the good things that have happened in the six years during which I have been involved in its work.

[Baroness Hollins]

My Lords, despite the legal view presented by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, I refer us back to some of the words spoken by my noble friend Lady Campbell of Surbiton. She said that the inclusion of dignity in the commission's general duty provides the glue to bind together anti-discrimination and human rights. I think I got that right. I agree with that and other important points that she made in her eloquent speech. Such an approach underpins the accepted goal of living with dignity and independence. As such, Section 3 is critical in providing coherence to the commission’s duties to promote equality and human rights. I was involved with one of the commission’s predecessor organisations, the Disability Rights Commission, in a major inquiry conducted into discrimination in access to health services by people with learning disabilities or mental illness. It indeed found discrimination; it was very effective and led to some improvements in access to healthcare for those groups. It is very important that such issues continue to be seen as a priority and investigated.

I worry that, without Section 3, that priority may be lost. I oppose the removal of Section 3. It has an important role in focusing the commission’s various duties, and I add my support to the amendments tabled by my noble friend.